Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.
Posted on 03/25/2005 9:39:52 AM PST by MissTargets
WARREN - A 62-year-old Howland man arrested while holstering a military-style pistol with Kevlar penetrating bullets is scheduled to make his first court appearance this morning.
Jerry Joseph of Valacamp Avenue S.E. is accused of violating Ohio's conceal and carry law during a traffic stop Monday when police say he failed to tell police he had the weapon concealed while he was in a motor vehicle. Joseph is scheduled to be arraigned this morning in Warren Municipal Court on charges of carrying a concealed weapon and improperly handling a firearm in a motor vehicle. He is free on $5,500 bond.
Joseph, who has a permit to carry a concealed weapon in Ohio, said he believes he didn't do anything wrong.
Detective Jeff Hoolihan said that after taking Joseph's passenger, William Cindea of Stiles Road N.W. into custody for warrants charging assault and drug possession during the West Market Street traffic stop, backup officers patted down Joseph and found a semi-automatic pistol with 20 rounds of Kevlar piercing rounds - bullets known as "cop killers.''
Police said carrying the gun - which costs in the neighborhood of $900, was first introduced as a military weapon and has the power to penetrate police protective vests - isn't illegal, but police say Joseph failed to inform officers he was licensed to carry, was carrying the weapon and that he had it hidden beneath his jacket.
Ohio law states that while carrying a weapon in a vehicle, it must be in a holster in plain sight, and the carrier must inform police he is licensed and is carrying the weapon. Carriers also can have the gun in a locked glove box or locked box located in plain sight, and must provide their license and a second form of valid identification.
Joseph had a permit issued through the Trumbull County Sheriff's Office to carry the weapon. However, police say it has been temporarily suspended pending the outcome of the criminal charges.
Joseph said he received his permit in November and purchased the weapon and ammunition shortly thereafter in Austintown because it was something relatively new on the market and "supposed to be state-of-the-art.''
"I've never even fired it yet,'' he said.
Joseph said he doesn't understand what he did wrong, adding he threw his license and gun permit on the top of his vehicle after he was outside the vehicle. He said he told police three to four times he was carrying the weapon and waited to show them because of the heated situation.
"I had the permit,'' Joseph said. "Maybe I didn't think right, but I thought I did everything right.''
Detective Michael Krafcik said, according to state law, Joseph should have removed his coat while driving to keep the weapon in compliance with the plain sight stipulation.
Hoolihan said police are not singling out Joseph, saying having a conceal and carry permit is a privilege much like having a driver's license.
"We're not targeting this man,'' Hoolihan said.
Here is another article, that I found rather amusing.
Maybe he had one of those newfangled Belgian pistols that have gotten such bad press. I wonder if he actually had the kevlar piercing ammo, or that was just a figment of the bad press that the pistol has gotten. Maybe the police were more upset about which weapon he had than the fact that he didn't have it in plain sight, and that's why (allegedly) telling them about it wasn't good enough.
ping
Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.
So, we are talking about the new FN pistol that fires the same ammo the P-90 does?
I am not totally sure the ammo out there right now is really ammo piercing. I don't THINK it is, as a matter of fact.
L
It sounds like that's the case - the price just about guarantees that it's a FiveSeven (I refuse to use the goofy capitalization). However, the Teflon "cop killer" ammo was never made in 5.7; they're smoking crack if they think that's what's in that pistol. Standard hollowpoints, that's all.
Translation "We are going after this man with a vengence and we will not rest until he is dead or in prison for life. how dare this peon try to muscle in on our territory and protect himself. if this catches on there will not be aneed for as many police to protect the peons and some of us will lose our jobs and have to work for a living."
There now the article is accurate
5.7mm bump. Bet he didn't have AP ammo.
Date updated: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 Ohio's Concealed Carry Law makes it Mandatory to notify a police officer that you are carrying a concealed handgun and have a license to do so.
This law will apply to you even if you are merely a passenger in a motor vehicle. The officer may or may not ask you to produce your license and may or may not ask to take possession of your firearm for the duration of the traffic stop. The law specifically prohibits the officer from keeping your firearm if you are released.
Vital: During a traffic stop you should never make any movement that could be considered reaching for or touching your firearm. Besides the common sense reasons, if you are charged with touching your firearm at any time during a traffic stop the charges are a felony.
Sec. 2923.126.
(A) If a licensee is the driver or an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped as the result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose and if the licensee is transporting or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle at that time, the licensee shall promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the vehicle while stopped that the licensee has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun and that the licensee currently possesses or has a loaded handgun; the licensee shall comply with lawful orders of a law enforcement officer given while the motor vehicle is stopped, shall remain in the motor vehicle while stopped, and shall keep the licensee's hands in plain sight while any law enforcement officer begins approaching the licensee while stopped and before the officer leaves, unless directed otherwise by a law enforcement officer; and the licensee shall not knowingly remove, attempt to remove, grasp, or hold the loaded handgun or knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun by touching it with the licensee's hands or fingers, in any manner in violation of division (E) of section 2923.16 of the Revised Code, while any law enforcement officer begins approaching the licensee while stopped and before the officer leaves. If a law enforcement officer otherwise approaches a person who has been stopped for a law enforcement purpose, if the person is a licensee, and if the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun at the time the officer approaches, the licensee shall promptly inform the officer that the licensee has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun and that the licensee currently is carrying a concealed handgun.
Sec. 2923.126.
(A) A licensee who has been issued a license under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code may carry a concealed handgun anywhere in this state if the licensee also carries a valid license and valid identification when the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed handgun.
None of the stuff that was actually intended to be armor piercing has ever been sold to civilians in the US. There were some defective hollowpoint rounds that actually got out to civilian sales that will penetrate IIA vests (cavity too small, jacket material too strong) but that was only a few cases worth and it was recalled/withdrawn as soon as someone found out. The standard ammo for sale in 5.7 is a hollowpoint that won't penetrate soft body armor (unless you're stupid enough to order and wear level I armor).
"Joseph said he received his permit in November and purchased the weapon and ammunition shortly thereafter in Austintown because it was something relatively new on the market and "supposed to be state-of-the-art.''
"I've never even fired it yet,'' he said. "
It's not a good idea to carry a weapon that you have never fired and that has not been thoroughly tested with your carry ammo. Since I don't beleive that armor piercing bullets such as KTW are available for sale to the general public, I doubt his ammo was of the "cop killer" variety.
You are correct:
While there is "armor piercing" ammo for the Five seveN, it's not available in this country, not to commoners, anyway.
OTOH, just about any non-hollow-point round from a .44 mag will defeat any body armor you can carry around...
Drummed into us a part of CCW Training. One MUST advise police upon stop that you either are or are not carrying. When stop is made, they already know if the driver has a permit.
NO excuse for forgetting.
I won't buy that. If you're carrying, you know it.
Maybe he didn't no the law made him a criminal for remaining silent?
He had a permit to carry. I'm not sure if OH is like FL but you're supposed to know the section of the law that deals w/ carrying, and ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking the law.
Maybe because it it none of the cop's business (and the law does not make it the cop's business.)
According to OH law it is.
Can't buy it (the ap ammo) commercially........ I have searched to see if it was available to the sheeple and it is NOT !
If someone has some then it is stolen from some gooobermint or local LEO or DOD..... I suppose some of the contractors in country could get it yet that would be a DSS sanctioned PO also .
The issue here is the CHL laws pretty much require one to inform the officer on a traffic stop that he's carrying per the states CHL laws. It's also a polite act to inform the officer that s/he is not carrying if the weapon is not present in the vehicle or on their person because if ya fail to follow that simple rule they will run yer plate and get a code back that says CHL is issued to you and assume that for some reason yer keepin that a secret so it's felony stop time and more BS than it's just worth.
If we are gonna let em rent our RKBA's back to us then there is always a lease agreement from the slum lords that we have to follow. Notifying the LEO of your carry status in the traffic stop is key to avoiding a shitstorm of BS and paperwork and little gator fees etc etc etc ......
As to the FN that is an agenda gun .....never mind the 7.62x25 ball ammo used in 60 (+/-) year old CZ 52's and Tok's Bolo's etc . Or a TC Contender pistol in a rifle caliber etc etc ....... the only valid evil in the VPC Idiots , their supporters and sheeple who swallow such disinformational sh*t'n shineola in this world is black plastic.....
Presstitutes evidently get a dollar kickback from the socialist grabbers for every mention of an agenda gun it reports at the rate they spew this BS.....
Just my opinion of course .......Stay safe !
I'd call em eager accomplices.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.