Opinion: Apple -- Here to Stay

MacCentral ^ | March 08, 2005 | Don Tennant

[r5boston]

Nearly a decade ago, just a few months after Microsoft shipped Windows 95, I asked Bill Gates if it was a conscious decision in the development of that product to give Windows more of a Mac look and feel. Of course I knew he'd say it wasn't, but I couldn't resist asking. "There was no goal even to compete with Macintosh," Gates proclaimed. "We don't even think of Macintosh as a competitor."

That was a crock, so I pressed the issue a little. I asked him how he accounted for the widespread perception that Windows 95 looked a lot like Mac 88, and whether the similarity was just a coincidence. I didn't expect a sobbing confession of mimicry, but I thought it would be cool to see how he'd respond. Surprisingly enough, Gates shifted gears and became more forthcoming.

[Richard Kimball]

I've come back to this thread a few times, because the arguments are like reading a protracted dead parrot skit, but I have to comment that your reasoning here is desperate. iTunes will convert unprotected WMA files to AAC, MP3, or whatever other format. It will do so without touching the original WMA files. The converted files can be played in iTunes or moved to an iPod. It's no big deal to have the music that was originally in a WMA file playing on your iPod.

Of course, you are correct that the iPod does not play WMA files natively, but your "SOL" argument is absurd. It's like saying a door doesn't work because it's closed, or a coin operated washing machine doesn't work because you can't throw the coins in the tub and make it work. Use iTunes and the iPod like they are intended to be used, and you can be listening to your songs on an Apple computer, a Windows computer with iTunes or an iPod.

If you want to continue pushing an esoteric point that doesn't make any difference, yes, you're correct. Game over. The iPod also won't run Super Mario Brothers.

[Bush2000]

I've come back to this thread a few times, because the arguments are like reading a protracted dead parrot skit, but I have to comment that your reasoning here is desperate. iTunes will convert unprotected WMA files to AAC, MP3, or whatever other format. It will do so without touching the original WMA files. The converted files can be played in iTunes or moved to an iPod. It's no big deal to have the music that was originally in a WMA file playing on your iPod.

You're missing the point that LVD is making. When you "convert" a WMA to AAC, you're taking a compressed format and recompressing it. That results in a loss of quality. LVD is simply saying that, when you convert a WMA to AAC, it is no longer a WMA. The loss of quality makes it less than it was. That's all. Some people are failing to see this simple concept.

[Last Visible Dog]

iTunes will convert unprotected WMA files to AAC, MP3, or whatever other format. It will do so without touching the original WMA files. The converted files can be played in iTunes or moved to an iPod. It's no big deal to have the music that was originally in a WMA file playing on your iPod.

It is no big deal as long as you don't mind degrading your files. Compressed files are always degraded to some degree so degrading them more is a pretty bad idea.

Supporting a file format means the device can use that file format. The Ipod can not use the format in question. Converting file format X to format Y does not mean you now support format X because format X no longer exists. If you like your WMA files as they are - you are SOL if you buy an Ipod.

Fun Fact: My Creative Nomad supports the WMA format - it plays WMA files. I am not forced to degrade them

Try it this way: If you don't mind degrading your WMA files, the Ipod can play them.

Let's review

Can the Ipod play WMA files?

No.

Therefore you are SOL if you want to keep your WMA files - but as you and the other PodPeople have said - if you don't want your files to be WMA files anymore and if you don't mind degrading your files, the Ipod can use them.

Pretty funny stuff

[Last Visible Dog]

LVD is simply saying that, when you convert a WMA to AAC, it is no longer a WMA. The loss of quality makes it less than it was. That's all. Some people are failing to see this simple concept.

Thank you. I have been trying to find different ways to state this so the PodPeople will understand - you have done a much better job than I have. This statement is key:

The loss of quality makes it less than it was.

So if you don't mind the quality of your music being less than it was - the Ipod has got ya covered.

This really is not that big of a deal. Many people start their ripping when they get the Ipod so this is a non-issue. I was not trying to claim this is a major issue - just an issue.

For me it is a bigger issue - a close friend of mine (wink, wink) has a ton of WMA files he got in the Wild West Napster days and my friend can't re-rip them and does not want to degrade the quality so this friend chose not to buy an Ipod.

The other funny thing is I was VERY close to buying an Ipod until I found the Creative deal that was $220 cheaper for the same disk size. I am somewhat skeptical about the longevity of these little hard drive devices so I was very happy to spend less money. So far my Creative Nomad is one of the coolest things I have bought in a long time. It is nice to have a big chunk of my music collect available in my car and in the office. I think it important to treat your little hard disk device like it is made of glass rather then treating it like it was a cassette walkman. I have found the little hard drives don't like to get real cold - you need to warm them up before you try to use them

All bickering aside - I highly recommend these little hard drive MP3 players - whatever brand you buy.

[Last Visible Dog]

If you want to continue pushing an esoteric point that doesn't make any difference, yes, you're correct. Game over. The iPod also won't run Super Mario Brothers.

Are you claiming degrading your audio files "doesn't make any difference" - that is a silly statement. This may not be a big issue and there are ways around it but saying the Ipod supports WMA files by degrading them is not something to be happy about.

[antiRepublicrat]

You are pretty funny. The Ipod supports WMA files just as long as they are not WMA files.

As I said, I never claimed iPod directly supported WMA. Find a post where I wrote that. You, however, claimed that a WMA-owning person with an iPod is "SOL." Now the common definition of SOL is a person finding himself in a situation where there is no practical recourse to resolve a problem.

There is an extremely practical recourse to solve the problem that the iPod doesn't play WMA -- let iTunes take care of it through an effortless conversion. Therefore, an iPod may not be able to directly play WMA, but he is definitely not "SOL."

Unless you have money for a new garage, which most don't, there is no practical recourse in your Mustang situation, therefore the two do not equate. The iPod owner is set, the Mustang owner is may be SOL and should just donate the car to me.

[antiRepublicrat]

At no time was I debating inheritance or even discussing it.

If you don't think you were, then you know even less.

OO abstraction does not convey into the real-world. There is no such thing as a vehicle class in the real-world. OO is a conceptual abstraction.

There sure is if I'm modelling the real-world using OO. When I call up a Person object in my application, it definitely equals one real person in our organization.

It's funny you mention abstraction, since in my example it would be best to use an abstract class to represent the concept Vehicle, as I'd never never want to instantiate a Vehicle directly, but through derived classes such as Taxi, Dumptruck, etc., or by make, or whatever the application required.

[antiRepublicrat]

You can find a bad review on the Internet for nearly every product ever created.

Of course, including problems that the iPod, by design, cannot have.

[Swordmaker]

Now we've established that he knows nothing about English, *ROMs, object-oriented programming, and economics. Is there anything else?

iPods, Apples and Macintoshes, Oh, my!

[Swordmaker]

Swordmaker, when you snipe from the sidelines on this one - remember it is a "usage error" and not a "spelling error"

Pardon me... but the misspelling of the plural of a word is still a spelling error. There are spelling rules about how one pluralizes a word... and yes, if you use a word wrong, it is a "usage" error... but this is not the case... you merely misspelled the plural of PROM and EPROM.

Nor is it a "punctuation error." Punctuation has to do with SENTENCE STRUCTURE, and the stops and hesitations needed to assist with understanding meaning.

[Poser]

" Well, crap PCs are $450. Decent ones still cost more, and counting all of what you get they often cost more than a Mac."

My $200 WallyWorld special (1.4 Gig Duron, no monitor) has worked flawlessly for 14 months. It isn't crap.

My $300 Dell (after rebates, without monitor) works flawlessly and included Windows XP and Word Perfect. It isn't crap. I use it as my Ipod server.

I ordered a Mini-Mac 7 weeks ago. It hasn't arrived yet.

[antiRepublicrat]

So if you don't mind the quality of your music being less than it was - the Ipod has got ya covered.

If quality is what you're after, you should actually get an iPod so you can use the superior AAC format.

[antiRepublicrat]

Therefore you are SOL if you want to keep your WMA files

Nice try. Your original statement wasn't qualified by "if you want to keep your WMA files." It was a blanket "SOL."

[Swordmaker]

And you can't change history. The debate was about whether or not Apple designed the Ipod for the user to change the battery. They did not - I was correct. I have no position on people playing McGiver and replacing their own batteries.

Dog, you stated your erroneous information as though it were the current state of affairs. It was not. When others pointed out that your price, information, and statement were woefully outdated, you continued to state they were true. That is what makes you a liar.

We are not talking about what was done in the past... you assume the past is the present. It is not.

[antiRepublicrat]

but saying the Ipod supports WMA files by degrading them is not something to be happy about.

Again you show no knowledge by making false blanket, non-qualified statements. If you cannot live with degradation of the WMA's quality, you can choose to re-encode in the compressed lossless format. It'll take a bit more disk space, but it is a choice a picky user can make (although a picky user probably wouldn't have gone with WMA in the first place).

[antiRepublicrat]

My $200 WallyWorld special (1.4 Gig Duron, no monitor) has worked flawlessly for 14 months. It isn't crap. My $300 Dell (after rebates, without monitor) works flawlessly and included Windows XP and Word Perfect. It isn't crap. I use it as my Ipod server.

That's great if they serve your purpose, but they don't compare to the Mini in terms of features and software, and speed for the Wally-world machine (which, I guess, didn't come with Windows).

I ordered a Mini-Mac 7 weeks ago. It hasn't arrived yet.

Apple will never, never learn. They know a product is going to sell fast, yet they never put enough in the pipeline to meet the demand. I remember people waiting months for XServes.

[Swordmaker]

"And in the computing world, where has the herd headed? They are following Bill Gates' Windows ..."

That's not what you guys keep saying ... everybody's supposedly swarming to the Mac due to the iPod. Which is it?

A small trend away from lemmings running off the cliff is not going to stop the vast majority of lemmings from drowning as they follow the herd.

[Petronski]

I love the "McGiver" comment.

You change your own battery? You must be MacGyver.

You pump your own gas? I am awed and frightened by your wizardry.

What's that? You installed your own hard drive? Why, you're a 21st century shaman!

What do you mean you refilled your own toner cartridge? AWAY! Evil sourcerer!

[Richard Kimball]

No, I'm not claiming degrading your audio files doesn't make any difference. AAC and WMA are equivalent in terms of sound quality.

[Poser]

"Two guys built a desktop computer in a garage. IBM needed to compete with two guys in a garage."

Give me a break. That was 27 years ago. Apple has been out of the garage for a generation. IBM is a small player in the PC market along with lots of others.

Apple chose to remain proprietary and IBM did not. The rest is history. A PC is a commodity, not a brand. Compatibility and portability are the most important factors when choosing the platform.

It doesn't matter if Mac is better (and I don't think it is). The PC won that war. There may be a new war and Apple may be a player, but I doubt it. Linux may eventually replace Windows, but I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

I predict that all three platforms will continue for the foreseeable future.