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Poor Data Hampers Gun Policies, Study Says
NY Times ^ | December 17, 2004 | FOX BUTTERFIELD

Posted on 12/17/2004 2:16:52 AM PST by Pharmboy

A comprehensive study released yesterday by the National Academy of Sciences says a major national effort to improve knowledge about firearms is needed before anyone can judge the effectiveness of a variety of policies, from gun control to laws allowing people to carry concealed handguns.

The study, by the academy's National Research Council, found that accurate research on what works to reduce gun violence had been made impossible by a lack of information on gun ownership and by scholars' lack of access to information like the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms' data on guns traced to crimes.

The National Rifle Association and its supporters in Congress have long opposed collecting information on gun ownership and sharing the bureau's gun-tracing data, describing such steps as an invasion of privacy.

Charles F. Wellford, chairman of the committee that wrote the report, said that among the major questions that need answers are whether gun violence could be better controlled if there were more restrictions on who can buy firearms, whether customers should be limited to buying one gun at a time and whether safety locks work.

"These and many related policy questions cannot be answered definitively because of large gaps in the existing science base," said Mr. Wellford, a professor of criminal justice at the University of Maryland. "The available data are too weak to support strong conclusions." He spoke at a news conference in Washington, where the report was released.

The report was particularly skeptical of research claiming that homicide rates fall in states that pass laws permitting its citizens to carry concealed weapons. "The committee found no credible evidence that the passage of right-to-carry laws decreases violent crime," it said.

Thirty-four states now have such laws, some of them based on research by John R. Lott Jr., a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. Mr. Lott has written that allowing people to carry concealed weapons does reduce violent crime, but his findings have been disputed by many other researchers.

Andrew Arulanandam, a spokesman for the N.R.A., which supports the right to carry concealed weapons, said, "I think these laws have been tremendously effective."

Mr. Arulanandam said: "This is not rocket science, but common sense. The whole purpose of these laws is to allow people to defend themselves when the need arises."

The report also cast doubt on research about how often guns are used to deter crimes. Some research has found that guns are used 100,000 times a year to defend against a crime, but other research has put that figure as high as 2.5 million times a year, the report pointed out.

Such a wide variation calls the accuracy of the findings into doubt, leaving it unclear what is actually being measured, the study said.

But it also questioned some favorite findings by advocates of gun control. It said, for example, that there was not enough evidence to conclude, as gun control advocates say, that owning a gun increases the risk of a gun injury.

In addition, the report cast doubt on the effectiveness of some law enforcement programs to reduce gun violence that have been widely praised, like a Boston gun project in the 1990's that focused on juvenile gun possession, and Project Exile in Richmond, which gave stiffer federal sentences to criminals arrested in possession of a gun.

These programs seem to have reduced gun violence, but they were confined to a single city and there is not enough evidence that they could be replicated nationally, the report said.

"My sense is that people on both sides of the debate won't like the report," said Jens Ludwig, an associate professor of public policy at Georgetown University. "The main thrust of it is, we don't know anything about anything, and more research is needed."

The report was commissioned by the National Institute of Justice, a branch of the Justice Department; the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; the Joyce Foundation; the Annie E. Casey Foundation; and the David and Lucile Packard Foundation.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; billofrights; fmcdh; guns; rkba
More balanced than the usual NY Times piece on guns. At least they had both sides.

And more data will only help our side...Lott is correct.

1 posted on 12/17/2004 2:16:52 AM PST by Pharmboy
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To: Joe Brower

Ping to the bang list...


2 posted on 12/17/2004 2:17:26 AM PST by Pharmboy (Listen...you can still hear the old media sobbing.)
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To: Pharmboy

3 posted on 12/17/2004 3:02:37 AM PST by Critical Bill
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To: Pharmboy; SierraWasp; editor-surveyor; Jim Robinson; farmfriend; sauropod
"The report was commissioned by the National Institute of Justice, a branch of the Justice Department; the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; the Joyce Foundation; the Annie E. Casey Foundation; and the David and Lucile Packard Foundation"

PB, The object of this article is to begin the drive for obtaining more information on gun owners in order to "be able to do 'better' research". "More information" equals owner registration. Note, I did NOT write "gun registration", because that is NOT the objective. Peace and love, George.

4 posted on 12/17/2004 3:40:01 AM PST by George Frm Br00klyn Park (FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Pharmboy

In a couple of years they will announce: "now that we have gathered and analyzed the data scientifically, we conclude [insert political gun control conclusion here]".


5 posted on 12/17/2004 3:45:52 AM PST by palmer ("Oh you heartless gloaters")
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To: Pharmboy

More data = gun registration.


6 posted on 12/17/2004 4:23:28 AM PST by niteowl77
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To: Pharmboy

Beg to differ, but "more data" is just another rationale for registration of firearms and owners.


7 posted on 12/17/2004 4:26:52 AM PST by RippleFire ("It was just a scratch")
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To: Pharmboy

I think this is just a NYT invitation to cook the data more because common sense tells people that guns stop crime.

The NYT is just living by figures lie and liars figure.

The NYT wants new figures for new lies.


8 posted on 12/17/2004 4:26:56 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: Pharmboy
This is the gun control version of the Algae Florida 2000 Presidential Election Recount. They are demanding an selective recount of the statistics which currently show conclusively that gun control does not work.

I ran the spell checker which could not find Algor, so I selected Algae instead. Seemed to fit.

9 posted on 12/17/2004 4:39:06 AM PST by Modok
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To: Pharmboy
"My sense is that people on both sides of the debate won't like the report," said Jens Ludwig, an associate professor of public policy at Georgetown University. "The main thrust of it is, we don't know anything about anything, and more research is needed."

Ah, yes---"Lying Ludwig". Dear Jens's OWN RESEARCH showed that defensive gun uses to prevent crime were not 100,000, nor 2.5 million, but far higher. He refused to accept the results of HIS OWN DATA.

10 posted on 12/17/2004 5:21:04 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: George Frm Br00klyn Park

Yes, George, that did occur to me too; but, rather than individual data, can't they use aggregate data without identifying anyone by name, in order to make correlations between crime stats and gun ownership stats?


11 posted on 12/17/2004 5:50:48 AM PST by Pharmboy (Listen...you can still hear the old media sobbing.)
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To: Pharmboy
"can't they use aggregate data without identifying anyone by name, in order to make correlations between crime stats and gun ownership stats?"

PB, Sure. But, the objective is owner registration for ALL of those involved in the "study".

They have enough data now. All they have to do is check shall carry states with no carry states and vicinities {New York, District of Columbia}, vs, Florida, Virginia and locales that allow carry and ownership. But, this data does not fit the agenda.

If D.C. allows ownership, much crime will move to Maryland. Peace and love, George.

12 posted on 12/18/2004 3:18:00 AM PST by George Frm Br00klyn Park (FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Pharmboy
I think that the balance of the real research shows overwhelmingly that gun control is a bad idea.

Dr. Kleck's research at Florida State University shows in my opinion that citizen defensive uses of firearms are an important part of crime prevention, and perhaps the most important single factor in crime prevention in the United States.

13 posted on 12/18/2004 3:39:23 AM PST by snowsislander
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To: Pharmboy
laws allowing people to carry concealed handguns

Notice how the liberal head works. The natural state of affairs is that everything is banned. We pass laws to "allow" things.


14 posted on 12/18/2004 3:44:04 AM PST by Nick Danger (Want some wood?)
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To: Pharmboy

Hoe did you find this article, browsing a hard copy of the paper? Happy New Year!


15 posted on 01/01/2005 10:16:20 AM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem

I ended my subscritpion when they attacked the Swiftees...the proverbial straw. I found it within the online edition...


16 posted on 01/01/2005 10:20:40 AM PST by Pharmboy (Listen...you can still hear the old media sobbing.)
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To: Pharmboy
I ended my subscritpion when they attacked the Swiftees...the proverbial straw.

There's hope for mankind.

I found it within the online edition...

All the news that's fit to bury!

17 posted on 01/01/2005 10:43:41 AM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem
The Swiftees attack got me spitting mad--especially since they never had gone after any of the lefty 527s or even pointed out that Soros had given so much money to them. I had the pleasure of giving them an earful when I cancelled.

But, I do miss the print edition for articles like this and just have to be satisifed with the electrons.

18 posted on 01/01/2005 10:48:52 AM PST by Pharmboy (Listen...you can still hear the old media sobbing.)
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To: Pharmboy
"My sense is that people on both sides of the debate won't like the report," said Jens Ludwig, an associate professor of public policy at Georgetown University. "The main thrust of it is, we don't know anything about anything, and more research is needed."

I like hearing that. More truth and un-biased studies can only help the RKBA issue.

19 posted on 01/02/2005 6:05:32 PM PST by bad company (a conservative bases his politics on his morals,a lib bases his morals on his politics)
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