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ZOT! Kerry and Moore UNITED WE STAND
Bacon ^ | 7/6/04 | Chris Bacon

Posted on 07/06/2004 4:03:40 PM PDT by herzhog

freerepublik

The Freeper's Pathetic Attempts at Historic Revisionism Regarding Stalin's "Communism" and Hitler's National "Socialism"

-By Chris P. Bacon-

July 20th, 2001 It has long been a ploy of the right wing in America, especially with regards to our friends (National Socialists as fervent as Hitler ever was) over at freerepublic.com, to convince people that liberal programs such as welfare, gun control, or even public schools are forms of wicked fascism in the truest spirit of Hitler and the "Communists" of the eastern Bloc simply because, in the names of these political dead ends, they included the word socialism.

This represents a fallacy on the part of the Freepers for failing to understand even the simplest definitions of the words communism, socialism and fascism. In order to get this part of the debate out of the way, I went to my trusty old "Random House Dictionary of the English Language," a massive volume. According to Random House, fascism is defined as follows: "fascism, n. A governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism." Under this definition of fascism, which is a solid and time-tested definition, not only were Hitler and Mussolini fascist, but their compatriots in Russia (or the Soviet Union) were fascists as well.

Some of our fellow Freepers, such as "GOPGuy" (not his real handle), a Freeper from the center of the earth, say "The morality of socialism and fascism can be summed-up in two words: envy and self-sacrifice. Envy is the desire to not only possess another's wealth but also the desire to see another's wealth lowered to the level of one's own." GOPGuy, this is Random House¹s definition of socialism: "Socialism, n. A theory or system of social organization which advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production, capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole." How is it that socialism equals fascism under those definitions? Socialism preaches the exact opposite of fascism; socialism is for allowing the community to decide how the means of production behave. Socialism is very democratic. Fascism, as you well know, is dictatorship that advocates the crushing of all dissent (which should sound really familiar to all of the Freepers). Is there any Freeper who can tell me by what thread of even the faintest logic the conclusion that socialism equals fascism can be reached? No! Rush and O¹Reiley have been feeding this misinformation to you and have been twisting definitions and distributing lies in the true spirit of the people and ideologies they claim to despise, to paraphrase the Freepers' hero Adolf Hitler: "If you repeat a lie long enough it becomes the truth."

The attempts at historic revisionism do not stop with our friend the Freeper from the remote regions of Hades, GOPGuy. In fact, a freeper as thick-skulled, if not thicker then GOPGuy, "JohnDoe," a pathetic holdover from the Third Reich, states: "You see disrupter, communism and fascism have the same net resultŠSo, it is amusing to watch the ignorant liberals call the people on the right "Nazis", when that is like calling them a "Leftie". Get it?" Communism and fascism do not have the same net result. Again, let us consult Random house definition of communism: "Communism, n. A theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state." If fascism is for the control of all property by a single man while communism is for the control of all property by the community as a whole or the state (which in many, many cases represents the community as a whole as in the United States) how do they lead to the same result? Who is the ignorant one here, my fellow Freepers?

The political ideology of people on the right in America is much more closely related to authoritarian fascism than that of liberals could ever be. In terms of the political spectrum in which on the extreme left we have anarchy (no government at all) and on the extreme right of the spectrum, fascism (authoritarian dictatorship), the pathos of Freepers in general advocating fervent American nationalism, group identity, white roots and undying support for an authoritarian man who stole the presidency, is more in calling with fascism or "national socialism." For example, the Freepers and people on the extreme right now in unlawful control of this nation advocate "America is a Christian nation" and enforce their will upon the populace by ensuring or proposing that prayer is allowed in schools, that the Ten Commandments be posted, having Jesus Day, and teaching creationism. For all of their divine reliance on the Constitution, it is politically inconvenient for them to have to mention the separation of church and state and the first amendment¹s proclamation that the United States shall establish no religion.

By flooding websites, intimidating vote counters, manipulating polls and posting private information about real and imagined enemies of the Freepers on the internet in order to quash any form of valid dissent and the democratic process and thus the rights of others, the freepers have readily and deservedly distinguished themselves as the foremost advocates of fascism in this nation. It is time to correctly apply the definitions of dictionaries and political scientists where they properly belong: Free Republic equals fascist advocacy.

Chris P. Bacon can be reached via e-mail at dickcheney4@hotmail.com. All Freeper quotations taken from this page.

Return to FreeRepublik


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1 posted on 07/06/2004 4:03:40 PM PDT by herzhog
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To: herzhog

herzhog aka roslyn, godblessbush, TrancendentalC, et al, zotted.


2 posted on 07/06/2004 4:09:01 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Jim Robinson

.....another one bites the dust..........


3 posted on 07/06/2004 4:12:04 PM PDT by EggsAckley ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Evita Rodham Clinton)
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To: Jim Robinson

Record time on that one ole buddy.


4 posted on 07/06/2004 4:12:05 PM PDT by cripplecreek (you tell em i'm commin.... and hells commin with me.)
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To: Jim Robinson; hchutch; jriemer; Old Sarge

ZTTTZYUW RHCJKIY0001 1882313-TTTT--RHCJSUU

062313ZJUL2004

FM FREERAD CHEYENNE MTN AFS CO
TO ALZOT

T O P S E C R E T VIKINGKITTEN

BT

SUBJ/GLASS EYE COMBAT DAMAGE REPORT//
RMKS/1. ZOT ON TARGET WITH HIGH ORDER DETONATION.
2. I LOVE THE SMELL OF ZOT IN THE AFTERNOON.
3. VALHALLA I AM COMING!
4. THE MATADOR! THE MATADOR!//

BT



NNNN


5 posted on 07/06/2004 4:13:21 PM PDT by Poohbah ("Mister Gorbachev, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!" -- President Ronald Reagan, Berlin, 1987)
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To: herzhog
"fascism, n. A governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism."

...and your point is...?

6 posted on 07/06/2004 4:13:24 PM PDT by martin_fierro (Knees in the breeze)
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To: herzhog
All those words and nothing about Halliburton or oil. I'm so disappointed.
7 posted on 07/06/2004 4:14:03 PM PDT by SaveTheChief
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To: cripplecreek

I smell smoke!


8 posted on 07/06/2004 4:14:29 PM PDT by Ben Hecks
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To: herzhog
The Freeper's Pathetic Attempts at Historic Revisionism Regarding Stalin's "Communism" and Hitler's National "Socialism"

"The Freeper"? You people should lurk more before your zotting.

9 posted on 07/06/2004 4:15:12 PM PDT by AmishDude ("Another John-John going down in flames!" -- I was ashamed of this before I was proud of it.)
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To: cripplecreek
Record time on that one ole buddy.

The record is 32 seconds, IIRC.

10 posted on 07/06/2004 4:15:16 PM PDT by Poohbah ("Mister Gorbachev, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!" -- President Ronald Reagan, Berlin, 1987)
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To: Ben Hecks

You missed the flash. It was a record breaking XOT.


11 posted on 07/06/2004 4:15:59 PM PDT by cripplecreek (you tell em i'm commin.... and hells commin with me.)
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: herzhog

"." GOPGuy, this is Random House¹s definition of socialism: "Socialism, n. A theory or system of social organization which advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production, capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole." How is it that socialism equals fascism under those definitions?"

Because it can only be achieved by using the force of government against any individual that doesn't want to have their personal property stolen.

Capitalism is the economic expression of individual liberty.

Socialism is the economic expression of bondage.


13 posted on 07/06/2004 4:16:44 PM PDT by adam_az (Call your State Republican Party office and VOLUNTEER!!!!)
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To: Poohbah

Haha...


14 posted on 07/06/2004 4:18:50 PM PDT by VaBthang4 (He Who Watches Over Israel Will Neither Slumber Nor Sleep)
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To: herzhog

Wow.

You took all that time to write this and went to all that trouble to post it and the end result is that you sound just like the babbling idiot that you are.

Job well done!


15 posted on 07/06/2004 4:19:30 PM PDT by Key West Girl
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To: herzhog

You can't have socialism/communism or any other form of coercive collectivism without the coersion. These forms of government/economy require authoritarianism - a dictatorship or a police state. Fascism sits comfortably with the other isms mentioned above. So take your isms and cram them.


16 posted on 07/06/2004 4:19:35 PM PDT by Spiff (Don't believe everything you think.)
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To: Jim Robinson
herzhog aka roslyn, godblessbush, TrancendentalC, et al, zotted.

That was quick.

17 posted on 07/06/2004 4:20:57 PM PDT by Kaslin
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To: EggsAckley

I just wish they would stick around long enough to debate their idealism...


18 posted on 07/06/2004 4:25:11 PM PDT by MarkeyD (<a href="http://www.michaelmoore.com">Morbidly Obese</a>)
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To: Jim Robinson

Sheesh! Can't even get in before the ZOT anymore!!


8^)


19 posted on 07/06/2004 4:29:00 PM PDT by The SISU kid (I'm the swizzle stick in the cocktail of life)
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To: herzhog

Yes, your Bacon is coming up Crispy with ZOT, ChrisP.Bacon.


20 posted on 07/06/2004 4:29:16 PM PDT by Mark (Treason doth never prosper, for if it prosper, NONE DARE CALL IT TREASON.)
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To: herzhog

21 posted on 07/06/2004 4:29:39 PM PDT by My Favorite Headache (Rush 30th Anniversary Tour Tickets On Sale Now!)
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To: herzhog
And your point is?


22 posted on 07/06/2004 4:30:50 PM PDT by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: herzhog

Dear Chris,

The problem you have is that you are using a dictionary. You are using the theoretical definition of those terms. Try some history books to discover the functional result of regimes that convert those principles into practice. Check out what happens when a "community" owns the property. You may be surprised.

Simply - what do you think happens to those who actively resist being part of the "community"? Is that their right?


23 posted on 07/06/2004 4:31:05 PM PDT by JmyBryan
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To: herzhog

Both fascism and socialism are, primarily, forms of economic organization. If you want to learn the similarities and differences, you should consult an economic text rather than a dictionary. May I suggest you pick up a copy of Hayek's "The Road to Surfdom". This book, written in the 1940s long before Free Republic, explains why fascism should both be considered special cases of communism.

Your screed only illustrates your lack of understanding of economics.


24 posted on 07/06/2004 4:31:32 PM PDT by DugwayDuke
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To: herzhog
Jeez...You people are scary! There is no freedom in socialism or communism, and the only rights you have are those granted by the government at any given moment. Nor do you posses any concept of what role Christianity played in forming your freedoms you enjoy today in America, nor do you even have the simplest understanding of what it means to be Christian and the choice it takes, much less the need of a moral society for a democracy to even exist (gee you might try reading what our founders thought and desired for this country, but that would not fit in with you agenda to destory this country)

Without understanding how do you intend to keep your freedoms? Oh, I get it your socialist government will not be a failure like every other past one because it will finally be run by the right people (hateful atheist with no moral compass) that will make the difference. Oh, wait that has been done before.

25 posted on 07/06/2004 4:32:24 PM PDT by Lady Heron
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To: herzhog
socialism is for allowing the community to decide how the means of production behave.

If the 'community' decides everything for you, then how much freedom do you really have? The 'community' is the government. Anything that doesn't promote freedom or the individual is fascism as far as I'm concerned.

A definition of freedom: The capacity to exercise choice; free will. Where in the hell does socialism and communism give an individual free will? Answer: It's the first thing they take away. Besides, the 'community' will do the deciding for you. Now shut up and pay your taxes.

That's the main difference between conservative and liberal; freedom of the individual or power of the 'community' over the individual.

26 posted on 07/06/2004 4:34:22 PM PDT by rudypoot (Rat line = Routes that foreign fighters use to enter Iraq.)
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To: DugwayDuke

Thanks for the book reference!


27 posted on 07/06/2004 4:34:57 PM PDT by MarkeyD (<a href="http://www.michaelmoore.com">Morbidly Obese</a>)
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To: Lady Heron

Barf.


28 posted on 07/06/2004 4:36:20 PM PDT by RockinRight
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To: MarkeyD

A couple back to back posts by this creep herzhog aka godblessbush:

Comment Removed by Moderator

To: All
Dear Lord,

Please pray for our wonderful land - "the USA" and be with us as we try and show the rest of the world how it is done. Pray for the gays who have brought us AIDS and allowed our Country to become a terrorist target. Pray for the "muslims" and help guide them on the path to the only true religion, "Christianity". Pray for our wonderful President, George Walker Bush and forgive him for his sins. Pray for the people of Iraq and help guide them to a life like we have here in the USA. Help them build tall buildings, create jobs, build McDonald's and Wendy's and have a wide choice of SUV's and sports cars. Pray for our Jewish brothers in arms and forgive them for your cruxifiction. We pray dear Lord, for our inner cities, over run with poverty, drugs, and aids. We ask for your protection from godless foriegners, especially those who would take our jobs. Pray for the slanderous media, who would have our great land turned into a communist regime. We pray dear Lord for truth. Please come back and set things back to the way they ought to be. Cleanse this world from the wicked. Let those who turn their backs on you feel your wrath and let those who embrace you feel your love. Amen.

17 posted on 02/18/2004 9:30:28 AM PST by godblessbush
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To: presidio9
France and Germany suck? Intelligent. America sucks! I pray for the day Bush Inc. and all the freepers are locked up for being idiots. You are the reason America sucks! So, stop sucking and stop wasting space. Your time is up............

10 posted on 02/19/2004 10:33:49 AM PST by godblessbush
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29 posted on 07/06/2004 4:38:37 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Jim Robinson

Right between the eyes!!! LOL


30 posted on 07/06/2004 4:39:02 PM PDT by gimme1ibertee (Go W in 2004 !!!!!)
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To: Jim Robinson

"If fascism is for the control of all property by a single man while communism is for the control of all property by the community as a whole or the state (which in many, many cases represents the community as a whole as in the United States) how do they lead to the same result? Who is the ignorant one here, my fellow Freepers?"

I believe you are mistaking fascism for nazism, and as such the communists simply gained control over all real property, the national socialists took full control over the major real property and left deed ownership to the people giving the illusion that they owned it, the rub here is that real property under nazi rule was subjected to heavy regulation, always under the guise that it was for the betterment of the country, people, children, environment, what have you until there comes a point that the deed of property was just a piece of peper largley enslaving the owner to the property and thus through the regulations to the state.

Deed of title to a piece of property isn't worth much if you can't build a house on it for fear of disturbing a snail darter breeding ground.


31 posted on 07/06/2004 4:42:09 PM PDT by bad company (VOTE JOHN JOHN AND FLUSH TWICE, IT'S A LONG WAY TO WASHINGTON)
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To: herzhog; jriemer; 4mycountry; Zavien Doombringer; MEG33; cavtrooper21; cyborg; arasina; ...

"I just don't get it, why do these people believe we care what they think?"

32 posted on 07/06/2004 4:46:02 PM PDT by timpad (Peace without victory is procrastination)
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To: herzhog

Chris P Bacon now


33 posted on 07/06/2004 4:46:09 PM PDT by sully777 (Our descendants will be enslaved by political expediency and expenditure)
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To: herzhog
By Chris P. Bacon

No bloviating pork allowed on this forum you ignorant, moronic rasher............

34 posted on 07/06/2004 4:47:21 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (After 30+ years dealing with idiots, I still haven't earned the right to just shoot them.....)
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To: Poohbah

35 posted on 07/06/2004 4:47:34 PM PDT by timpad (Peace without victory is procrastination)
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To: timpad

I gotta ask ya

Is that your cat if it is he is one of the coolest ones ive ever seen !


36 posted on 07/06/2004 4:48:07 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK (Most people talk a lot, few are up for the moment. Welcome to Freerepublic.com)
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To: RockinRight

Excellent come back. Tells us all we need to know about your ability to debate. Try to rebut her comments if you can.


37 posted on 07/06/2004 4:52:23 PM PDT by ChuckHam
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To: gimme1ibertee

And herzhog trolling as roslyn:

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To: Rome2000
I agree with Osama! One of the greatest movies ever. I'm glad I contributed my $9 to Mikey Moore!

-Dale Earnhardt Jr.

9 posted on 07/05/2004 12:40:49 PM PDT by roslyn (BUSH 2004)
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To: shanscom
You might want to check your TV schedule. Conan (the guy with red hair) is welcoming Michael Moore tonight. Leno has the racist black guy who made "White Chicks". Later, Leno will welcome George Lucas. His new film "Big Booty Black Chicks" starring Jessica Simpson is sure to burn up the box office.

46 posted on 06/25/2004 10:49:22 AM PDT by roslyn (BUSH 2004)
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To: #3Fan
"a caller asked Solomon if he had "ever bang(ed) a famous n—— chick? What do they smell like? Watermelons?" (I realize this is from an outside source)

The quote above is the real reason they pulled him off the air. I don't see what all the discussion is over. I don't like Howard Stern - I never listen to him. I don't agree with exploiting "retards" as he calls them or anyone else. I don't, however, think this should be Clear Channel's reason for pulling him. They have supported him all these years and now they suddenly disagree with his politics? We need to be worried about censorship of any form and look at the issue at hand. A caller said the "N" word. He said what he felt. I don't agree. I'm an African-American myself but that doesn't change my opinion. He said what a lot of people think. But just because you don't say what you feel because of "PC" reasons doesn't mean your feelings don't influence your actions. Racism exist now as much as it ever has in all parts of the world. The only difference is in the United States (I say the U.S. because that's the only country I have ever lived in)is that people don't like to talk about it and you're labeled a racist if you use racist words not if you have racist thoughts. The feeling I get is if people pretend like it doesn't exist and take actions (like pulling Stern) when someone makes a racist comment then everybody is happy and life is just peachy. In my opinion, this will backfire in the future. I'm surprised no one has commented on the obvious. Yes.....Howard Stern is vulgar but just stating that and expressing your joy that he was pulled isn't dealing with the real issue at hand. Clear Channel didn't pull him because he is vulgar or racist. They did it out of political correctness that is based in B.S. LOL

89 posted on 02/27/2004 8:57:23 AM PST by roslyn (BUSH 2004)
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Comment Removed by Moderator

To: ex-Texan
"The Dems will take cash from any source (even Red China) while mouthing platitudes, criticism and nonsense about Republican candidates."

I personally feel that Nader is a red in disguise and he definitely calls B.S. on the Republicans. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Nader pulling votes from Kerry or Edwards, anything to keep the honorable GWB in the Oval Office. I personally don't think Socialism works and Red China are not technically a "Communist" country--- they are a "Socialist" country. Communism in its true form has never existed according to the original manifesto. I hope people will not throw their votes away on Red Nader and his socialist views.

20 posted on 02/23/2004 12:04:04 PM PST by roslyn (BUSH 2004)
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To: jmstein7
God bless, those of you who did your jobs with integrity. It's hard to believe that Kerry couldn't have killed the enemy without killing the innocent. May all his injustices haunt him forever and all of those who found joy in killing women and childeren in Vietnam. Keep up the good work! There was a really awful song I heard once, it came from the likes of those Kerry Killing types in Vietnam. "Napalm sticks to Kids"

52 posted on 02/19/2004 3:13:16 PM PST by roslyn
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38 posted on 07/06/2004 4:52:41 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: timpad
I'm amazed he spent as much time as he did on his little "essay". Like I have the attention span to read it, much less care.

What was I talking about?

39 posted on 07/06/2004 4:52:50 PM PDT by SquirrelKing ("I have to march because my mother could not have an abortion." - Maxine Waters (D - California)
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK

Nope, not mine


40 posted on 07/06/2004 4:53:02 PM PDT by timpad (Peace without victory is procrastination)
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To: herzhog

41 posted on 07/06/2004 4:55:03 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (Am Yisrael Chai!)
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To: Jim Robinson; All

"I pray for the day Bush Inc. and all the freepers are locked up for being idiots."


This people is one of the reasons the left idolizes the tyrants of the world with their mass graves, execution chambers and political prisoners.


42 posted on 07/06/2004 4:57:09 PM PDT by bad company (VOTE JOHN JOHN AND FLUSH TWICE, IT'S A LONG WAY TO WASHINGTON)
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To: timpad

Thanks for ping - I missed the ZOT, but there appears to still be time to pee on the grave.


43 posted on 07/06/2004 4:57:58 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (Am Yisrael Chai!)
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To: Poohbah

062359JUN04
FM ALZOT
TO FREERAD CHEYENNE MTN AFS CO
INFO FREEREPUBLIC

T O P S E C R E T VIKINGKITTEN

BT

SUBJ/BATTLE DAMAGE ASSESSMENT//
RE/ YOUR 062313ZJUL2004
RMKS/1. ZOT ON TARGET ACHIEVED WITH HIGH ORDER DETONATION.
2. SMELL OF ZOT AFFIRMATIVE.
3. ZOT INITIATED W/O OPREP 3 MESSAGE FORMAT.
4. VALHALLA UNAVALIABLE!
5. THE MATADOR! THE MATADOR!//
BT



NNNN


44 posted on 07/06/2004 4:59:30 PM PDT by OneLoyalAmerican (A Fireman in the NAVY was promoted more times than Lieutenant junior grade John F'n Kerry.)
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To: herzhog

Socialism is very democratic. Fascism, as you well know, is dictatorship that advocates the crushing of all dissent (which should sound really familiar to all of the Freepers). Is there any Freeper who can tell me by what thread of even the faintest logic the conclusion that socialism equals fascism can be reached?

 

Go read a book or more. I do not have all day to post links to inane posters who are in all likelihood already zotted!

 

"When an opponent declares, 'I will not come over to your side.' I calmly say, 'Your child belongs to us already
What are you? You will pass on. Your descendants, however, now stand in the new camp.
In a short time they will know nothing else but this new community.'" ~
 
 Adolf Hitler

"....the absurdity of the concept that it is possible to design an educational system where "no child will be left behind,"

 

Socialism Lives in Public Schools


Other famous supporters of public education include Hitler, Stalin, Castro, Mao Zedong, Mussolini, and every other 20th-century dictator, as well as virtually every politician throughout the entire world. It is thus truly amazing that private education has not been almost completely eliminated by now.

 

45 posted on 07/06/2004 4:59:42 PM PDT by Radix (This Tag Line is for the purpose of mentioning that John Kerry served in Viet Nam!)
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To: timpad

Thats a shame my daughter says hes got CATatude and i say it looks like he would'nt take any guff off anyone lol


46 posted on 07/06/2004 4:59:50 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK (Most people talk a lot, few are up for the moment. Welcome to Freerepublic.com)
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To: Jim Robinson

Unreal. What a virulent character.Scary to think there are so many of these guys running around loose.


47 posted on 07/06/2004 5:00:01 PM PDT by gimme1ibertee (Go W in 2004 !!!!!)
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To: OneLoyalAmerican

"ALZOT" is the "ALL ZOT" Collective Address Designator--CADs only receive messages, they do not originate them.


48 posted on 07/06/2004 5:02:26 PM PDT by Poohbah ("Mister Gorbachev, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!" -- President Ronald Reagan, Berlin, 1987)
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To: SquirrelKing

..and could somebody, ANYBODY, PLEASE tell me why these clowns always think it makes them so (cool, smart, hip, whatever) to spell things with a 'K' instead of a 'C'? I mean, c'mon already "freerepublik", "amerika", or the ever-popular "AmeriKKKa". It started in the '60's for cryin' out loud! FORTY YEARS AGO!

Get a new trick!

 

49 posted on 07/06/2004 5:04:39 PM PDT by timpad (Peace without victory is procrastination)
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To: Poohbah

Roger that. :)


50 posted on 07/06/2004 5:05:19 PM PDT by OneLoyalAmerican (A Fireman in the NAVY was promoted more times than Lieutenant junior grade John F'n Kerry.)
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