Parents Who Choose Not to Vaccinate Children Upset with Some in the Medical Community

kcrg ^

[Doctor Stochastic]

Godwin's law invocation.

[Politicalmom]

Actually, I am more concerned about where the children come from. Children who have been in the U.S. for a long period don't scare me. And if you think vaccines are so wonderful, why are you so worried? Most epidemics start in vaccinated groups anyway.

A person who would gleefully consign a child to the hell my nephew lives in, without caring whether something will cause harm, is evil in my book.

[Politicalmom]

Apparently, from his further arguments, he IS referring to immuno-compromised children.

[hinckley buzzard]

So why don't you post these studies right here?

Why don't you go get a Master's degree in public health, then come back and have a useful discussion. Here's a clue:
look up data on the incidence of polio, smallpox, etc., before and after the availability of mass vaccination.

Find out why smallpox vaccinations were discontinued years ago; hint: it wasn't because they were causing an outbreak of "autism."

Do your homework, swee'pea.

[Sabertooth]

And if you think vaccines are so wonderful, why are you so worried?

Because I actually care about the children of anti-vaccine hysterics, and public health in general.

Most epidemics start in vaccinated groups anyway.

Oh? Evidence?

A person who would gleefully consign a child to the hell my nephew lives in, without caring whether something will cause harm, is evil in my book.

The children who died of infectious childhood diseases in the pre-immunization era didn't suffer?

Let's get back to the question at hand:

Would you rather your non-immunized chilren were surrounded by other non-immunized children liked themselves, or immunized children like mine?

Why is this question so difficult for you to answer?

[funnynurse]

I know of many members of the "single digit" network....the one that comes first to mind is a nine year old that died of PCP in a hospital I worked at 2 years ago. Tell me his crime please?? BEING BORN.

I can fully remember the days when AIDs was a disease "not of who you are but of what you do". Clearly that mindset is still alive and well in some arenas, continuing to fuel the fire.


btw I am glad that you can so easily discount all the pediatric cases of HIV in this country, let alone on this planet.

I for one cannot, for I have seen their faces.

[TomB]

I think they took the mercury out of it. Is that right, to finally answer your question?

Here's a hint. If you would bother to read the whole thread, you would end up being embarassed less. I said this in post 175, TO YOU, no less:

I guess the intrepid vaccine expert isn't going to answer the question. Maybe he read further down the thread a realized that MMR never had thimerosal, so it never had it removed in 1999. Doh.

If this is the example of your level of knowledge and competence on immunizations, it makes your earlier statement even sillier:

But my argument to the doctors was that I wanted my son not to have to take all three vaccines at once, so as not to overwhelm his immune system.

Gee, someone who doesn't even know the basics of vaccines lecturing a physician on immunology.

Face it, you don't know what you are talking about.

[funnynurse]

"you never answered the question"

sorry, I do have a life.

How great is the risk of Hep B to your newborn?? Fortunately, not very.

THose most at risk remain IV drug addicts and homosexuals. A lot of people would extroplolate from that and say well, unless you/your spouse fall into one of the above categories, there is no risk to your newborn there.

But here is my stance. I don't know that my spouse will NEVER engage in risky behavior, putting me/mine at risk. Of course, I believe he will not, but I will not bet my children's lives on it. I don't know the status of every health care worker we come into contact with. I do know that universal precautions are anything but. I don't know the blood supply is 100% safe (actually, I know it cannot be). I also don't know what choices my children will make, when grown.

If you chose not to vaccinate your newborn, that is your choice. As with all vaccines, each parent has to weigh the risks and benefits and decide accordingly. But please don't assume that the risk to your child is absolutely not there or will never be there. Having watched innocent children die of AIDS related illnesses, I can promise you that bloodborne pathogens do not discriminate as neatly as some would believe.

[funnynurse]

The latter has been eliminated

care to share the science behind that statement??

Gay marriage is not something I support, but I don't see how it can further spread HIV in and of itself. You would have gays mating with gays....nothing new there.


"As early as 1985 is was irrefutably clear that anal sex and needle swapping were the behaviors most suitable for AIDS transmission, and that the "heterosexual AIDS epidemic" would never materialize. The politically correct denial of the facts is what fueled the AIDS epidemic, and led to several hundred thousand unnecessary deaths."

Actually, not. While the gay sex/dirty needles thing is on point (and remains so) there were early calls of concern from many corners. You probably wouldn't have known it from the mainstream press, though. As long as AIDS was a gay thing, who cared??? I don't see anything politically correct there. I see homophobia.

[funnynurse]

actually, anyone that has had ckn pox is at risk for shingles. The virus stays dormant in the body. My friend has had shingles following each of three surgeries. Fortunately, there are medicines available to help limit the course of shingles now.

[netmilsmom]

>>I don't know that my spouse will NEVER engage in risky behavior, putting me/mine at risk. <<

Wow, really?
My prayers are with you.

[AdamSelene235]

I know of many members of the "single digit" network....the one that comes first to mind is a nine year old that died of PCP in a hospital I worked at 2 years ago.

I thought we were talking about AIDS?

btw I am glad that you can so easily discount all the pediatric cases of HIV in this country, let alone on this planet.

Thats not my intent. I have yet to see any convincing evidence that HIV is the cause of AIDS. The chemical bases of the various AIDS epidemics

[Lee'sGhost]

From Time

Who Needs Shots?
A lot of parents are still choosing not to vaccinate their babies. But at what risk?
By CHRISTINE GORMAN

Monday, Apr. 12, 2004

When an Iowa College student returned from a class trip to India last month, he brought back more than the usual souvenirs. The man, 19, was infected with measles, a disease that is largely under control in the U.S.
but is endemic in India and can cause high fevers, deafness, inflammation of the brain and even death. He wound up infecting at least one other person on the plane, and Iowa health officials confirmed last week that a
third person later developed the disease on the ground.

What happened? It turns out the young man, like several others in his college group, comes from a family that doesn't believe in vaccination, and so he had never had his measles shots. Altogether, six people in the group developed the illness while in India. When doctors at the Iowa Department of Public Health learned about their condition, they asked the ailing students and their unvaccinated traveling companions to delay their
return to the U.S. so as not to spread the infection.

Instead, says Kevin Teale, a spokesman for the public-health department, the 19year-old "came back early against our advice."

With any luck, the Iowa outbreak may be limited to just the three cases. But it raises an important question: Why would anyone choose not to get vaccinated? For some it's a matter of religion. For others it's a concern about possible side effects. All vaccines have some small risk. Some parents and even a few doctors also are worried that recent increases in the rate of autism and earlier occurrences of Type 1 diabetes could have been caused by routine childhood vaccines.

It has taken a while, but the best and largest studies have shown that not to be the case. Eighteen months ago, a giant study of practically every child in Denmark found no causative link between autism and the so-called MMR shot - the triple vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella. Another big Danish study last week found no link between various childhood vaccines and Type 1 diabetes.

The Iowa incident reminds us that when people decide - for any reason not to vaccinate, they are endangering not just themselves but everyone around them.

From the Apr. 12, 2004 issue of TIME magazine

[TradicalRC]

I have listened to Dr. Dean Edell in Chicago for years now.
He taught me that even medicine can be political and therefore "spun." I'm sorry, but that man is an A1-class idiot.

[cadmus-maui]

As I indicated, some who were vaccinated will still be vulnerable. NOTHING IS PERFECT, including immunization.

[Ray gallup]

Check out our web site at
http://autismautoimmunityproject.org/ as well
as the UK web site that is pro-choice with vaccines
(http://www.jabs.org.uk/). My son, Eric was born
normal in 1985 and regressed into autism after receiving'
the MMR vaccine in 1986. See Vijendra Singh, Andrew Wakefield,
and F. Edward Yazbak, MD on the Internet.

See this.........

This document was sent to all pediatricians in the United States in the January 2004 issue of the
American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) News. It carries the seal of Health and Human Services
(HHS), Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the American Academy of Pediatrics
(AAP) and it STATES that the incidence of autism spectrum disorder is 1 in 166.

See Autism A.L.A.R.M.
http://www.medicalhomeinfo.org/screening/Autism%20downloads/AutismAlarm.pdf


Dear Sir or Madam,

My name is Omri Lior Hodiya Fiman. I am called, for
the most part, Mouse. I am 25 years old and I have
autism. I am able to hold down a job and able to work
a computer. I can also write rather well. One thing I
cannot do is speak well. With all but a few
exceptions, the words get stuck in my head and won’t
come out. I have meltdowns frequently and often have
to wear a helmet to protect my head. I have 2
advocates that help me but there is much they cannot
do for me. There is so much I know that I need and yet
I have no idea where to start. What I do know is that
1 out of every 166 children has autism spectrum
disorder (statistics recently updated by the CDC). If one out of every 166 children were born with
defected limbs or mental retardation, something would
be done. If one out of every 166 calves born in Texas
were born with defects, something would be done. If
one out of 166 people were dying from poison, the
product would be yanked from the market with great
fanfare. But, nothing is done about autism. I will
never live the kind of life other people will. I am
able to do some things other autistics cannot do. I am
not able to do some things others can. Unlike diabetes

or asthma (both also unseen to the naked eye), autism
effects each person very differently, but affect us
all it does. Autism has robbed me of many things I
wish I had. How much of the future of our society has to be stolen before people will take autism
seriously. Those of us with autism would like an
answer. 5 years ago, one in 500 children had autism. 2
years ago it was 1 in 250. Today it is 1 in 166. The
clock is ticking. What statistic is the magic one?
What number will bring the world to its senses? What
number will bring about research funds and funds for
therapy and insurance reform regarding autism? Can
anyone give me the answer or do we have to wait for
hundreds of thousands of our future children, to be
born into a life of autism? We are all waiting for our
answer.

Sincerely,
Omri H L Fiman
My Name is Autism
Written By: Omri Fiman/Marty Murphy

Hello. Allow me to introduce myself to you. My name is
autism. Perhaps you know me or know of me. I am a
condition, a "disorder" that affects many people. I
strike at will, when and where I want. Unlike Downs Syndrome or other birth "defects", I leave no marks on
those I strike. In fact, I pride myself on the ability
to infiltrate a child's life, while leaving him or her
strikingly handsome. Many people may not even know I
am there. They blame the child for what I cause him or her to do. I am autism and I do as I please.

I am autism. I strike boys and girls. infants and
toddlers. I find my best victims to be boys around the
age of 2, but any child will do. I like children and
they are always the true victims, though I take
hostage the others in the child's family as well. It
is a bit like getting 2 for the price of one. I affect
one child and "infect" the entire family.
I am autism. I strike rich and poor alike. The rich
combat me with education and therapy. The poor shut
their children away and cannot afford to fight me. I
am able to win in the lives of poor children more than
I am those of the wealthy, but I will try to take root
anywhere.
I am autism. I am an equal opportunity disorder. I
strike whites, blacks, Mexicans, Ukrainians, Russians,
Poles, Slavs, Japanese, Koreans and Fins. In fact, I
strike everywhere on Earth. I know no geographical
bounds.
I am autism. I do not discriminate based upon religion
either. I strike Jews and Christians, Muslims and
Buddhists, Atheists and Agnostics. I do not care what
religion a person is or what beliefs he may hold. When
I strike, there will be little time for any of that anyway. When they find me, they will question
everything they believe in, so why would I strike only
one group? I have affected followers of every religion
on the planet.
I am autism and I am strong and getting stronger every
year, every month, every day, every minute and every
second. I am concerned that money might be allotted to
combat me and my takeover of children, but so far, I
have little to fear. Some countries like Kuwait, are spending quite a bit of money to assist those who I
have targeted and some, like the United States, would
rather spend money on such ludicrous things as
discovering the number of American Indians who practice Voodoo, as opposed to combating me. In an
atmosphere such as that, I can flourish and wreck
havoc at will. In places such as that, I rub my hands
with glee at the problems I can cause to children,
their families and to the society at large.
I am autism. When I come, I come to stay. I take the
dreams and hopes of families and trample them with
delight. I see the fear and confusion in the eyes of
my victims and the see the formation of wrinkles, the
worries and pain on the face of their parents. I see
the embarrassment their child causes because of me and
the parents unsuccessful attempt to hide their child,
and me. I see tears the parents cry and feel the tears
of their child. I am autism. I leave sorrow in my
wake.
I am autism. I taketh away and give nothing but
bewilderment and loathing in return. I take speech and
learning. I take socialization and understanding. I
take away "common sense" and, if I am allowed to
flourish, I take away all but their physical life.
What I leave behind, is almost worse than death.
I am autism. I fear nothing except courage, which I
thankfully see little of. I fear those who take a
stand against me and attempt to fight me and bring
others into the fight as well. I fear those who try to
make it safe and easier for my victims in the
community, and their families. I fear those who push
ahead, despite the fact that I am in tow. I fear the
day I will be eradicated from the planet. Yet, I do
not fear too much right now. There is no need.
I am autism and I bet you know me or know of me. If
you don't, you probably will soon. I am marching
forward faster than I ever have before. I am looking
for new children all the time. I am looking for new
children to consume and new lives to destroy. I dread
the day I will be looked upon with pity or worse yet,
understanding, for that day, is the day I will begin
to die.
But in the mean time I am safe, free to prowl onward.
Free to cause the pain and suffering that I do so
well. I am on a mission and have much work to do and
thankfully no one is stopping me yet.

Hello. Allow me to introduce myself. My name is
autism. Perhaps you know me of know of me, if not
don’t worry, you will meet me soon…………





--
DEFINITION * TREATMENT * PREVENTION
Autism is 1 in 150 children today, 1 in 68 families! TAAP (The Autism Autoimmunity Project) is a non-profit charity dedicated to obtaining funding for independent research into the cause, treatment and prevention of autism and other autoimmune disorders. Please visit our website for more information at http://www.AutismAutoimmunityProject.org and help us put an end to this silent epidemic!!! Know the Cause, FUND the Cure!

Ray Gallup
Lake Hiawatha, NJ 07034
truegrit@gti.net