Bush says Muslims and Christians Worship Same God

CNN | 11/20/03

[truthandlife]

I was watching the Tony Blair and President Bush press conference and an American reporter asked a question on the lines of do you believe Muslims and Christians worship the same God.

President Bush said that Christians and Muslims worship the same God!!!!

[samtheman]

Your attempting to assign moral equivalence. I don't see moral equivalence between Islam and any other religion. No other religion is so firmly rooted in the doctrine of killing everyone who is not in your religion. Jesus said "love your neighbor as yourself" and then some bad Christians went out and ignored his words. Mohammed told his followers to cut off the heads of any neighbor that wouldn't convert, and good Muslims obey.

It's not moral equivalence. It's dramatic difference.

By the way, I am not a religious person.

[samtheman]

I am not a Christian Fundamentalist, or a member of any other religion. But I call it the way I see it. The actions of torturing and enslaving women in the Arab world are not the work of "extremists" but of the vast majority of muslim men.

Then there's the issue of how non-muslims are treated under Islamic law. What rights they DON'T have. Are you aware of this situation or not?

Again, I carry a torch for NO religion. But there is one religion on this planet that is plainly and clearly evil.

[normy]

Because I do not believe I have a full revelation of this here is what I know. The son was in heaven with the Father during creation and had a part in it.

Gen 1;26 Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

I have got to believe that was Jesus. Jesus is also present on earth from heaven speaking with Abraham before destruction of Sodom and Gomorah and in the fire with the three Hebrew children.

Jesus and the Father have one Spirit as do all those who are born again.

Psalms 82:6 I have said you are gods; and all of you children of the most High,

That is why we can walk perfectly before the Father and do the same miracles as Jesus, because we have the same Spirit. Make no mistake though we have to be obedient to the Father in the Spirit, like his Son. We cant just see a dead person and raise him unless the Father commands it.

Lastly Jesus would have no power if it were not given to him by the Father and Jesus has enough honor and respect for the Father to know this.

The only reason we could be gods is because the Fathers power is demonstrated through us or demonstrated in our lives but we can of our own selves do nothing.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Read 1 John 5;4 through 1 John 5;13 these are the context of that verse. The Spirit of Jesus is the same as the Fathers because it is the Fathers. If that Spirit dwells in us we are men still but we have the ability to become the sons of God, just like Jesus.

John 1;12 But as many as recieved him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.

The whole reason to be a Christian is to walk like Jesus, that is why he is an example to us.

[Rome2000]

What did you expect him to say?

That ragheads are a bunch of subhuman animals and that Islam is a suicidal death cult that will ultimately have to be outlawed and its adherents exterminated in order to preserve the very existence of life on the planet?

Can't say that and expect to get reelected.

[Theophilus_The_Scot]

This comment from "billbears" is accurate. Allah has his roots in a moon god. I doubt that many Muslims know this. My Muslim friends are truly seeking the creator God and Judge of the universe, but as we know from the Bible, "NO man comes to the Father but by Me." (Jesus speaking)

To: pcx99; Ff--150; 4ConservativeJustices

I would like to see how worship of a 3000 year old dead moon god is the worship of God Almighty. My God does not advocate rape of 6 year olds. My God sent his only begotten Son to die on the cross for my sins and who rose from the dead three days later.

Islam is a cult and false religion. For President Bush to make a statement as this is a slap in the face to many citizens of the respective states who are Christian


19 posted on 11/20/2003 5:07 AM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)

[Concerned]

PCX99 WROTE: "President bush is correct. Jews, Christians (Mormons, Baptists, Catholics, etc), Muslims all worship the same God."

PCX99 ADDED: "You may not like it, but it's true. If you deny that the God of the Muslims is the God of the Christians then you must deny that the God of the Catholics is the God of the Baptists or the Mormons or the adventists."

--------------------------------------------

I AM RESPONDING:
I have a LOT of Morman relatives and what I am about to tell you may SHOCK you, but over the years I have read a LOT about Mormanism and have now confirmed their beliefs with several of my relatives individually.

I don't know if you are aware of it, but Mormans believe that the Christian "Trinity" of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are THREE different "personages," NOT one being in three different forms.

If you notice, Mormans never refer to "God" as "God." Mormans always refer to "God" as "Our Heavenly Father." That is because Temple Mormans believe that:
(1) "God" was once a man like us,
(2) "God" is just one of MANY Gods,
(3) "God" became the "God of the Earth,"
(4) "God" came down from "Heaven" and had PHYSICAL sex with Mary (how Jesus' birth could still be considered a 'virgin' birth is beyond me!), and
(5) All Temple Morman men are aiming to become "Gods" themselves (with the help of their wives who are aiming to become "Godesses"), with planets of their own to rule some day in eternity.

As Ripley says, "Believe It Or Not!"

[punster]

I will lay the evil to the religious leaders, because they will not think outside of the box and institute change for the better.

[Commie Basher]

So the concept of Allah borrows from older pagan religions. So what? Don't many Christian holidays also have pagan roots? Wasn't Dec. 25 chosen for Christmas because it was around the time of the winter solstice? And wasn't All Saint's Day intentionally set near the harvest festival (i.e., All Hallows Eve)?

For that matter, Freud believed that the Moses was an Egyptian name (much as Allah is rooted in a pagan god's name).

[El Cid]

Re: Post 623

Hi Normy,

I think I understand your drift - you deny the divinity of Christ.
I realize it is a somewhat difficult concept that human nature will kick against at first (as Paul kicked against the goads) - but the Bible is clear. The previous verses I shared: Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, John 1:1, 1 John 5:7 are only a small snippet. Then you have the walk of Christ - healing the lame, raising the dead, walking on water, creating something out of nothing (bread to feed 5000 out of a few loaves), calming a storm by a word, giving up His life ("It is Finished!"), and then raising himself up again after 3 days ... And finally - the realization that there is no one but God alone who can save and bring Salvation, and there is no one else but God alone who could pay the price to impute righteousness upon us. God had to be borne in the flesh to provide the perfect sacrifice to atone for our sins...

But we've been through that in the previous two emails.
You are correct in some of your statements that it is the Spirit of God (the 3rd member of the Triune God - the Holy Spirit) who workest good within us -- but we still are in sinful flesh and it is a continual struggle (re-read Romans 6 and 7). Your statement that we 'can become just like Jesus', while still in the flesh, is an old heresy that began in the Garden. Remember?
"Ye can be like gods".
That lie has been repackaged and sold under its various religious names since the beginning. There is one God - and we aren't Him. And the only way to the Father is by the Son.

Because I do not believe I have a full revelation of this here is what I know. The son was in heaven with the Father during creation and had a part in it.

Gen 1;26 Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

I have got to believe that was Jesus.

That depends on who you are making reference. If its the "our" in "our image" - then yes, I agree, Jesus is a member of the "our" - the Triune God. The man, though, was Adam - our first father in the flesh. I think you'll get a better image of God in the first three (there's that number again...) verses of the Bible:
Genesis 1:1-3 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
You have God the Creator, God the Spirit, and God the Word (as God proceeds to speak all things into existance).

Jesus is also present on earth from heaven speaking with Abraham before destruction of Sodom and Gomorah and in the fire with the three Hebrew children.

Regarding the former - certainly we have an incarnation of God that appears before Abraham - and isn't it interesting again that this incarnation is 3 men (and which the Holy Spirit records as "Lord").
There certainly was only one other 'man' in the fire with Daniel's three friends - and I have no doubt that this was a pre-incarnation manifestation of the Lord -- whose covering we need to keep us from the fires of the Judgement.

Jesus and the Father have one Spirit as do all those who are born again.

Psalms 82:6 I have said you are gods; and all of you children of the most High,

That is why we can walk perfectly before the Father and do the same miracles as Jesus, because we have the same Spirit. Make no mistake though we have to be obedient to the Father in the Spirit, like his Son. We cant just see a dead person and raise him unless the Father commands it.

You're jumping from the fact that the Holy Spirit will in-dwell with the believer while he is in the flesh -- to the lie that 'ye can be like gods'. Don't be deceived by the same line that the serpent used on Eve.
Also, you didn't finish Psalm 82. Verse 7: "But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."
We will need to wait until the resurrection with our new sin-free bodies - courtesy of the imputed Righteousness of Christ - before we can qualify for this title.

Lastly Jesus would have no power if it were not given to him by the Father and Jesus has enough honor and respect for the Father to know this. The only reason we could be gods is because the Fathers power is demonstrated through us or demonstrated in our lives but we can of our own selves do nothing.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Read 1 John 5;4 through 1 John 5;13 these are the context of that verse. The Spirit of Jesus is the same as the Fathers because it is the Fathers. If that Spirit dwells in us we are men still but we have the ability to become the sons of God, just like Jesus.

Good verses - but you dodge the clarity of verse 7 - The Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost are three - yet one. With respect to your other comments - it is true that the Holy Spirit will take up home within the believers -- but don't deceive yourself. There is only one Jesus - our King, Lord, Mediator, and Saviour - and part of the Godhead bodily.

John 1;12 But as many as recieved him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.

The whole reason to be a Christian is to walk like Jesus, that is why he is an example to us.

I really don't have a strong disagreement on this last point. We should all try to walk like Jesus. But all our 'good deeds' are as filthy rags before the thrice Holy God - and that is not what gets us saved -- its Christ's perfect Righteous and Sacrifice for us that gets us saved. As John 6 puts it: 'Come, and Believe.'

[Bobisalwaysright]

I was raised Catholic as well. Catholic. It pretty much doesn't get much more conservative than that. And I paid attention in Bible School. I whole heartedly agree that God consists as the Holy Trinity. That wasn't the point I was trying to make. Let me try again.

I believe in a merciful God that loves all of His people, regardless of if they love Him. God rules all. He is all, there is nothing that lays outside of His reign. Nothing goes unnoticed by His eyes, and no prayers go unheard by His ears. Including the Muslims'. That's what I believe. If it makes you sleep better at night, then tell yourself that He doesn't listen to their pleas for peace and harmony. Tell yourself that He turns a blind eye on His creation in their hour of need. He is always merciful, that is what I was taught. No, I do not believe that He is the power behind the Islamic extremist. No, I do not believe that they are allowed into Heaven when they fly planes into buildings. But I do believe in one thing. Last night, I, a Catholic, sat at a table with a Covenant and a Muslim, and never gave it a second thought.

Remember, children, that this is a land of freedom of religion. It is one of its foundations. There is but one God and He hears all prayers. Sinners' and Saints', black's and whites', Americans' and Iraqis', Christians' and Muslims'.

You do not make decisions for Him.

Do not judge for Him.

[viaveritasvita]

HE BECAME LIKE ONE OF US

There was once a man who didn't believe that God came to be with us in the person of Jesus Christ, and was skeptical about God. His wife was a believer and follower of Jesus who diligently raised her children in her faith. He sometimes gave her a hard time about her faith. "It's all nonsense - why would God lower himself and become a human like us? It's such a ridiculous story!" he said.

One snowy day, she and the children left for church while he stayed home. After they had left, the winds grew stronger and the snow turned into a blinding snowstorm. He sat down to relax before the fire for the evening.

Then he heard a loud thump, something hitting against the window. And another thump. He looked outside but couldn't see. So he ventured outside to see. In the field near his house he saw, of all the strangest things, a flock of geese! They were apparently flying to look for a warmer area down south, but had been caught in the snow storm. The storm had become too blinding and violent for the geese to fly or see their way. They were stranded on his farm, with no food or shelter, unable to do more than flutter their wings and fly in aimless circles.

He had compassion for them and wanted to help them. He thought to himself, "The barn would be a great place for them to stay! It's warm and safe; surely they could spend the night and wait out the storm." So he opened the barn doors for them. He waited, watching them, hoping they would notice the open barn and go inside. But they didn't notice the barn or realize what it could mean for them. He moved closer toward them to get their attention, but they just moved away from him out of fear. He went into the house and
came back out with some bread, broke it up, and made a bread trail to the barn. They still didn't catch on.

Starting to get frustrated, he went over and tried to shoo them toward the barn. They panicked and scattered into every direction except toward the barn. Nothing he did could get them to go into the barn where there was
warmth, safety and shelter.

Feeling totally frustrated, he exclaimed, "Why don't they follow me? Can't they see this is the only place where they can survive the storm? How can I possibly get them into the one place to save them?" He thought for a moment and realized that they just wouldn't follow a human.

He said to himself, "How can I possibly save them? The only way would be for me to become like those geese. If only I could become like one of them! Then I could save them! They would follow me and I would lead them to safety."

At that moment, he stopped and considered what he had said. The words reverberated in his mind: "If only I could become like one of them, then I could save them." And then, at last, he understood God's heart towards mankind, and the reason He came to be with us. He fell on his knees in the
snow and worshipped Him.

Pat Rutherford

<><

[samtheman]

And remember, children, that in the heart of the Islamic world the penalty for having been raped is death.

Brought to you by The Religion of Peace.

[samtheman]

You blame the "leaders" for the evil? That means you absolve the Koran itself for any exortations to evil within its pages?

The Koran preaches evil. In the same way Jesus preached good.

Evil Christians are essentially going against Jesus' teaching.

Evil Moslems are following faithfully in the footsteps and instructions of the pedaphile founder of their religion.


That's an extremely large difference and you are willfully closing your eyes to it. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil?

[I got the rope]

Do not judge for Him.

HUH?

[I got the rope]

We should all try to walk like Jesus. But all our 'good deeds' are as filthy rags before the thrice Holy God - and that is not what gets us saved -- its Christ's perfect Righteous and Sacrifice for us that gets us saved. As John 6 puts it: 'Come, and Believe.'

Amen brother.

[varon]

Yeah, outraged citizens are already burning down Detroit and Salt Lake City.

Some Detroit citizens got a head start on burning their city years before GWB made his utterance ;-)

[Commie Basher]

That's pretty much what I was taught in Catholic school. It's the Good Works Doctrine. If you lead a good life, then you've accepted Christ even if you've never heard of him. Also, God speaks to all hearts, whatever religion that person filters His message through.

Of course, I was also taught that only us Catholics had a direct line to God, via the Pope, :-)

[A. Pole]

There is but one God and He hears all prayers. Sinners' and Saints', black's and whites', Americans' and Iraqis', Christians' and Muslims'. You do not make decisions for Him.

It seems that you DO "make decisions for Him". Maybe He hears those prayers He wants to hear?

"And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job." (Job:42:7-8)

[punster]

I am saying there was too much of the culture (circa 600 AD)injected into the Koran. Quite commonly, religious writings are deeply influenced by current culture.

If you examine the Old Testament, you will find that women were treated as second class citizens. They had no rights, they were chattel property of their husbands. This did seem to be sanctioned by the writings in the Old Testament.

Also, stonings were quite common at that time, even for what we would calltrivial offenses.

As to inconsistencies within the Old Testament, take the example of Lot. Lot was hailed as a virtuous man, but he actually offered his daughters to strangers. Today, that would be called childhood prostitution.

Furthermore, there was considerable violence directed towards competing tribes (of course, sanctioned by the writings).

Western culture has started to show more compassion, in line with the message of the New Testament. My criticism is directed at the effort of the Islamic Fundamentalists and their leaders to maintain the status quo and engage in harsh and barbaric behavior.

[Bobisalwaysright]

I have a sneaking suspicion that this is simply a winless fight. I've got my opinions, you've got yours, and they simply don't fit together like a tree full of monkies on nitrious oxcide. I appeal that we agree to disagree before things get ugly. Agreed?