I'm out...taking a sabbitical. No point discussing this anymore. 
Posted on 02/14/2020 9:45:49 AM PST by bolobaby
The SARS "epidemic" lasted from 1 November 2002 – 31 July 2003 (9 months). During that time there were...
8,096 total cases worldwide (5,327 in China)
774 total fatalities (349 in China)
...which gave us a fatality rate of 9.6% (6.6% in China).
Take a good look at those numbers. When you exclude China, the global fatality rate for SARS was 15.3%. This includes a 17.1% fatality rate in the socialized-medicine utopia otherwise known as Canada. Other notable rates - Hong Kong @ 17.0% and Singapore @ 13.9%. Both of the latter countries are well known for excellent healthcare in the region. Also notable: total cases in Japan were ZERO. (Make a note of this for later.)
It's clear that at 6.6%, China was not fully reporting fatalities from SARS.
The important thing to bear in mind is that fatality rate can only be determined from RESOLVED cases. That is, you are either recovered or dead. The stats for SARS are set in stone because we know how all those cases turned out.
Why do I bring this up?
Well, let's look at the current numbers for Coronavirus:
64,457 total cases worldwide (63,863 in China)
1,384 total fatalities (1,381 in China)
...BUT ONLY...
7,155 recovered (7,072 in China)
THEREFORE, for *resolved* cases, the current fatality rate *in China* is 1,381/(1,381 + 7,072) = 16.3%.
Let me take a moment to recognize that this number is likely to come down significantly as groups of patients come off longstanding quarantines. Just how far it comes down we don't know.
Let's also recognize that China is a bunch of lying communist pricks. They lied about their 6.6% SARS fatality rate, and are clearly lying here. So, even if the 16.3% number comes down, it will still not be an accurate representation of the true fatality rate in China. In the end, will their BOGUS number be higher or lower than the 6.6% SARS rate?
The rest of the world, with BETTER health care than mainland China reported a fatality rate from SARS that was 2.3x the mortality rate in China. So whatever number China winds up with, the rest of the world could very easily be 2.3x that.
Now - let's talk about basic reproduction rate, R0 (pronounced "r naught").
SARS lasted 9 months and infected only 8,096 people worldwide. The 64,457 cases for Coronavirus mentioned above starts from January 20th. In other words, not even one month ago. So, in about 10% of the time we've already got 8x times as many infected. I'm going to repeat that...
In 10% of the time, 8x more people have gotten Coronavirus compared to SARS.
If it was just a straight extrapolation across 9 months, that would mean we'd see over 600,000 cases worldwide. Maybe a little more, maybe a little less as it winds down.
Here's the problem with infectious diseases, though, as the infection rate goes up, it doesn't go up LINEARLY but EXPONENTIALLY.
What is R0?
This number is essentially the infection rate. An infection rate of 1.28 (about average for the "normal" flu) means that for every one person that gets sick, they are likely to get 1.28 people sick until something changes, such as the season. (In the flu's case, things like seasonal temperature change eventually help to kill off the virus.)
An R0 of 2 means that from patient zero to the 4th generation infected, you have 15 total infected.
An R0 of 3 means that from patient zero to the 4th generation infected, you have 40 total infected.
An R0 of 4 means that from patient zero to the 4th generation infected, you have 85 total infected.
Doubling the R0 from 2 to 4 means a *potential* to increase the infected 5.7x.
We readily use the flu vaccine in the United States. The flu has a low R0 of about 1.28 on average. Despite that, about 10% of Americans get the flu every year. The pandemic strain of the flu was estimated to have an R0 of 2-3.
So what is the R0 of Coronavirus? Well, because China is asshole, we don't yet know, but consider this: the R0 of SARS was somewhere between 2-5. That's pretty bad... but wait! Millions get the flu every year and only 8,096 got SARS. WTF? Well, this is because we were able to do a decent job containing and quarantining SARS. We're a little more lax with the flu even though it kills tens of thousands of Americans every year.
Right now, the best estimate for Coronavirus's R0 is 4.7–6.6 (source: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.07.20021154v1.full.pdf) That's a VERY big number. We can see the impact this number is having on the total number infected and how hard it has been to contain compared to SARS.
Remember that I mentioned Japan had no cases of SARS? Well they have 29 cases of Coronavirus already and we're just getting started.
You can see that China is having trouble with containment from the news and videos that have leaked out. With SARS, we saw some people walking around with masks on. THIS TIME China...
On top of that, China reports that more than 500 health care workers have tested positive. These are people who are supposed to be taking the strictest measures to avoid infection. They're the ones you see decked out in full protective gear.
The bottom line - China is having serious trouble containing the infection. Many, many more are being infected in a much shorter period than prior epidemics. The R0 is high enough to suggest that a LARGE percentage of the world's population will be exposed.
Now, you may be thinking: this is 'Murica! We're not some backwater country like China! We can handle an outbreak!
Well, yes and no, Freepers.
It's true we've got some of the greatest health care in the world. We are also uniquely capable of handling situations like this without the authoritarian measures a country like China needs to take.
But...
I want you to remember that the SARS fatality rate for the "civilized" world was 2.3x HIGHER than China's reported rate. So far, the reported rate in China isn't looking great.
The biggest danger to our country, however, comes from South America. If Coronavirus hits South America, and starts spreading like wildfire as in China, people will come RUNNING for our southern border hoping to both escape and get medical care. Even if we close the border, we know some will get through. They'll head for relatives in any number of cities throughout the country, bring the virus with them. Given the fact that the incubation period for this virus can be up to 2 weeks, they may not even be sick or know they have been exposed. Now we'll be fighting pockets of infection all over the place.
This thing has the potential to get out of hand fast. It's both infectious and deadly. Viral medications are harder to come by than antibiotics. You need to be ready to protect yourself from getting the infection in the first place! Be ready to shelter in place for weeks if needed.
I could go into the various ways to prepare, but this post is long enough. Track the progress of the virus here, but don't believe the numbers coming of China. They're bullshit and don't reflect how truly bad it is: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Over the last month (when China's economy wasn't operating at %20 capacity) there have been probably thousands of parcels delivered by many carriers to locations all over the country resulting in exactly ZERO infections
If you look at how China and other world countries including ours seemed to OVERREACT to coronavirus. If this is just a flu ,so what ?
Now US medical authorities like The Center for Disease Control , John Hopkins,and several non connected Medical authorities are now talking about a good chance of an epidemic in his country,and a world pandemic.
I think we should pay more atentions to this threat in the coming weeks.
Coronavirus might end up like legionnaires disease, and Ebola, both of which are relatively fatal,but not enough cases to worry about. - Tom
“If you look at how China and other world countries including ours seemed to OVERREACT to coronavirus. If this is just a flu ,so what ? “
Oh, I dont have an issue with these guys overreacting to it. That is what they are paid for. At least I hope they remember that.
And people ought to be aware and more hygienic and careful, and to really keep up on vulnerable older relatives.
That can sure as hell be done without the “light your hair on fire” breathless and sensationalist garbage people have to wade through just to get some semblance of sane reporting. Heck, it should be the norm.
There are people online that have to be talked-down because they think they are going to be dead by the end of the year, and that there is no point anymore.
What about when the disease comes from someone recently infected and touching everything in your mailbox?
The virus might not survive a trip overseas but it would have no problem making it from the post office to your house.
I'm out...taking a sabbitical. No point discussing this anymore.
Some of the people on this thread are downright annoying. It’s like they didn’t even the TITLE of the post. Instead they accuse me of freaking out and claiming the end of the world is nigh.
Sigh.
Keep modeling your numbers. I’m watching this one closely. Too many crazy things going on in China right now that suggest a very, very serious situation in China. Like this...
https://twitter.com/xinyanyu/status/1228365678777962496
Does that spell apocalypse for the rest of the world? I go back to my title: “worry a little.”
Updated number on health care workers in China infected. I had 500, latest article say 1,700 now.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/virus-cases-rise-as-experts-question-china-s-numbers-1.4811641
*shrug* I’ve been running a low grade fever since 1/19, about 2 weeks since I was at an international airport. Upper respiratory stuffiness, intermittent cough, bouts of mild dizziness, mild bouts of difficulty thinking, some balance issues, and tiredness.
I’m not panicked, nor even particularly worried.
Take some D3.
And some C.
I do!
Presently, All cases in America have been controlled. The infected have been identified, isolated and treated.
Start to worry when someone becomes infected who has not travelled anywhere. Hopefully, this won’t happen until it gets warm outside.
Also, it would’ve been nice if Paul Ryan hadn’t interfered with the BUILDING OF THE WALL.
Hospital beds are nice for patients with mild symptoms, but when the lung is sufficiently impaired a patient will have to be connected to a ECMO machine to help oxygenate the blood in order to survive. Once hooked up, the machine cannot be removed until the patient either gets better or dies. There has to be only a limited number of these machines.
The Chinese communists like to tout the number of beds as propaganda to show they are making a lot of effort. In fact, their facilities are nothing more than death camps where they throw all kinds of people in there guarded by the military making it easy to manage and hide these people’s fate.
What latitude are you right now?
1200 bodies are being burned everyday
More than 1.5 million are under observation
Not 20,000 or 30,000, more than 50,000 are gone
COVID-19 is 30 times more deadly than the seasonal flu based on current numbers.
2.1% vs 0.07%
That has happened. Very small number of cases, but caught my eye anyway. I’d have to go find the article.
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