Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Is This Market Downturn A Repeat of 2008? Crashes differ, so be cautious about your assumptions
Peak Prosperity ^ | 01/06/2018 | by Charles Hugh Smith

Posted on 01/06/2019 9:53:28 AM PST by SeekAndFind

Even people who don't follow the stock market closely are aware that the global economy is weakening and appears to be heading into recession.

For those who track the stock market, the signs are ominous: the U.S. was the last major market to notch gains this year and in October the U.S. market followed the rest of the global markets into an extended slide which has yet to end.

Just as sobering, key sectors such as oil, banking and utilities have crashed with alarming ferocity, reaching oversold levels last seen in 2008 as the global financial system was melting down.

These sectors crashing sends an unmistakable signal: the global economy is heading into a potentially severe recession and assets will not be rising in value in a recessionary environment. So better to sell risk-assets like stocks now rather than later, and rotate the money into safe assets such as Treasury bonds.

And indeed, households now own more Treasuries than the Federal Reserve--a remarkable shift in risk appetite.

Many other indicators of recession are in the news: auto and home sales and global trade are all slumping.

Are we in a repeat of the global financial meltdown and recession of 2008-09? The sharp drop in equities is certainly reminiscent of 2008. Indeed, the December decline is the worst in a decade. Or are we entering a different kind of recession, the equivalent of uncharted waters?

And if we are entering a recession, what can central banks and governments do to ease the financial pain and damage? We can’t be sure of much, but we can be relatively confident central banks and states will respond to the cries to “do something.”  This poses two questions: what actions can central banks/states take, and will those policies work or will they backfire and make the recession worse?

A good place to start is to revisit the 2008 crisis and attempt to understand its sources and how central bank policies reversed what appeared to be a snowballing collapse of global finance-- a meltdown that would have sent the global economy into a deep freeze.

Adam Tooze's recent book Crashed: How a Decade of Financial Crises Changed the World is a forensic autopsy of the crisis, and though I have yet to read the book, I refer to Tooze's recent article in Foreign Affairs magazine for his take on the basic mechanics of the 2008 crash and central banks' responses.

The story of the criminal fraud embedded in the subprime mortgage market meltdown is well known.  But as Tooze points out, these losses were less than those of the dot-com crash in 2000-02, so why did the subprime mortgage market meltdown almost collapse the global financial system?

Tooze identifies two key dynamics:

  1. Global finance had become highly integrated and leveraged by 2008--what we call hyper-coherent; in Tooze's words, "extraordinarily tight connections between U.S. and European finance."
  2. Non-U.S. banks, especially in Europe, had borrowed heavily in dollars to participate in U.S. financial markets.  When the panic started, global capital flows dried up and non-U.S. banks no longer had access to credit denominated in US dollars.

As capital flows and short-term lending dried up, a liquidity crisis took hold: non-U.S. banks couldn't get their hands on enough dollars to meet their obligations.

Unable to borrow dollars, their only choice was to dump their U.S. assets, panic-selling that would have crushed the valuations of U.S. stocks, real estate and mortgage-backed securities.

U.S. banks would have then been forced to reprice their assets lower, declaring huge losses on their portfolios that would have triggered (in Tooze's view) a  contagious bank run as the banks would have become insolvent (i.e. their assets would be less than their liabilities).

To stave off this banking crisis and a collapse in U.S. equities and real estate markets, the Federal Reserve quietly provided trillions of dollars of short-term credit to European banks, and opened currency swap lines with other central banks to supply however many dollars those banks needed to restore liquidity to their banking sectors.

To put some numbers on these dynamics: according to Tooze, global capital flows dried up 90% from 2007 to 2008, and global exports plummeted 22% within 9 months.

The long-term result of this global dollar shortage and emergency Fed policies of providing trillions of dollars in short-term USD credit and USD currency swap lines is that the dollar is more dominant now than it was before the crisis.

The USD is now the anchor commercial currency for countries representing 70% of global GDP, up from 60% in 2000. As Tooze explains, "The world's central banks effectively became offshore divisions of the Fed, conduits for whatever dollar liquidity the financial system required."

This interplay of over-reach, credit, currencies and policy responses is complicated, so let's try to summarize what happened in 2008:

  1. Banks began relying more on short-term lines of credit than on cash deposits. This left them vulnerable to funding crises when credit dried up.
  2. When short-term credit dries up, this is a liquidity crisis: when credit-worthy borrowers can't roll over their debts, this forces them to liquidate assets, panic selling which then crashes the valuations of those assets. This selling feeds a self-reinforcing feedback to reduce risk by tightening lending and dumping assets which further exacerbates the crisis.
  3. The solution to a liquidity crisis is for a central bank to open the credit and currency swap spigots wide open, which is what the Fed did.

Liquidity crises are thus relatively straightforward: providing emergency lines of credit solves the initial crisis.  Insolvent creditors can then be liquidated and losses written down in an orderly fashion.

But not all downturns are liquidity related. A conventional business-cycle recession occurs when too much credit has been extended to marginally creditworthy borrowers to fund investments in overvalued assets.

As lending to marginal borrowers / buyers is reduced, assets decline and these two conditions--tightening credit and declining asset valuations--trigger defaults which drive further tightening of credit and a self-reinforcing sell-off of assets.

Simply providing more short-term credit won't solve this credit/business cycle downturn, though it might help safeguard creditworthy borrowers from being forced into insolvency or fire-sales of assets.

If lenders in the banking and shadow-banking sectors are overleveraged and have extended loans on overvalued assets to marginal borrowers, the only real solution is to deleverage by writing down bad debts and taking losses on assets which have declined in value.

There’s a third kind of recession: the popping of credit-asset bubbles such as the dot-com stock bubble in 2000-02 and the housing bubble in 2007-08. The Fed and other central banks didn’t stop at providing liquidity; they bought assets (mortgage backed securities and Treasury bonds) to put a floor under asset markets and support a reflation of risk assets such as stocks and housing.

Articles like this "In A World Of Warnings, "This Is The Biggest Yet" indicate there is great uncertainty in the global financial system.  This is reflected in the skittish volatility of stock markets as every rally is soon sold and the distress that’s visible in credit markets.

This suggests market participants are no longer confident about central banks’ diagnosis of the global economy’s malaise and the efficacy of their response.  If central banks and states misdiagnose the current downturn, their policy responses could make the situation worse. It’s also possible that policies that worked in the past will fail to deliver the desired results this time around.

The 2008 crisis resulted from hyper-coherent, overleveraged banks and overvalued markets exacerbated by a liquidity shortfall in USD-denominated credit. Have these conditions melted away or are they still present? It can be argued that banks have lowered their leverage, but the tight connections in global finance remain in place.  By many measures, valuations in risk-on assets such as equities and real estate are as extended as they were in 2007-08.  As for dollar shortages, many believe this is still an issue.

If the current recession is the result of credit exhaustion, i.e. companies and households cannot afford to borrow more or don't want to borrow more, increasing liquidity won't be effective.

If the current downturn isn't a liquidity issue, it’s not clear what the central banks can do to maintain elevated valuations in stocks and real estate, other than buying these assets directly and in quantities large enough to offset the sort of mass liquidation we’re now seeing. Direct purchases of assets such as bonds and stocks by the major central banks have supported asset valuations for the past decade, and now that the Federal Reserve has increased interest rates and begun reducing its balance sheet, the Fed’s implicit support of high asset valuations has come to an end.

The problem with bailing out markets with direct asset purchases is, as Tooze notes at the end of his article, central banks no longer have a political carte blanche to "do whatever it takes." He also noted that China was not participating in the currency swap lines in 2008, and so a credit crisis in China might be more difficult to contain than the European-U.S. credit/liquidity crisis of 2008. By 2015—three long year ago—Chinese businesses had already borrowed $1.7 trillion in foreign currencies, the majority being U.S. dollars. Assuming the trend continued to the present, we can estimate the sum now exceeds $2 trillion—not a trivial amount even in a large economy like China’s.

It seems the current market downturn (and looming recession) is not a repeat of either the dot-com recession (the result of the collapse of an asset bubble that was concentrated in one sector, technology) or the 2008 global financial meltdown and recession. The current downturn arguably shares traits with three different kinds of recession: the popping of asset bubbles (like the dot-com and housing bubbles bursting), credit-currency mismatches and a panic move to de-risk (like the 2008 meltdown) and a classic business-cycle recession of credit and demand exhaustion. This will complicate the analysis and response of central banks, companies, investors and households.

In Part 2: The 8 Systemic Failure Points Of The Global Economy, we analyze the biggest risks confronting policymakers and investors alike, as both struggle to avoid the worst of the danger to come.

And we explain why, despite its many very real weaknesses, the US economy and its markets may be positioned to fare better than the rest of the world as the reckoning unfolds.

Click here to read Part 2 of this report (free executive summary, enrollment required for full access).



TOPICS: Business/Economy; History; Society
KEYWORDS: 2008; crash; downturn; stockmarket
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021 next last

1 posted on 01/06/2019 9:53:28 AM PST by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

In 2008 large institutional buys for pensions and mutual funds weren’t being driven by software algorithms. Some of the market fluctuations we see these days seem to have no basis beyond the latest tweet or CNN headline.


2 posted on 01/06/2019 10:01:58 AM PST by Baynative ("A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams." - John Barrymore)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
If the current recession is the result of credit exhaustion, i.e. companies and households cannot afford to borrow more or don't want to borrow more, increasing liquidity won't be effective.

Only in America do people believe you can Borrow your way to Prosperity, it never works out well in the long run.
3 posted on 01/06/2019 10:02:10 AM PST by eyeamok
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: eyeamok

RE: If the current recession is the result of credit exhaustion

WHAT CURRENT RECESSION?


4 posted on 01/06/2019 10:06:19 AM PST by SeekAndFind (look at Michigan, it will)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
WHAT CURRENT RECESSION?

The one they have planned for this year!
5 posted on 01/06/2019 10:14:25 AM PST by eyeamok
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: eyeamok

Not only in America.
China and Europe do the same, if not more so.
And any number of states in recent times, plenty of them in the Third World. Its a constant theme, of borrowing heavily for “development”, and then going broke and defaulting or threatening to.
It was a thing back in the 19th century. Mexico and Egypt, just to cite two examples, lost their independence as a result, ultimately, of creditors trying to get their money back.


6 posted on 01/06/2019 10:29:27 AM PST by buwaya
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

This down turn is nothing like the last one in 2008. But there is a bubble that is bursting just like last time. This time its China. And the European debt is a problem as well. We are in great shape. We have no problems, unless you want to count the foreign lobbyists trying to get our country to help them out. Or if you count our international companies that will try to get our government to help them out in the rest of the world.

The China bubble is the big thing. And we should let it pop. Extra money in China is being used for no good purpose. It is funding the China navy and army. And it is funding the Chinese hackers and techno-tyranny. We should treat China like an equal and put tariffs on all their stuff. China is a first world country hiding inside a third world country. There is no reason to think our money is going to latter as long as the former calls all the shots.

The best we can do for the world is to tariff everything from China. It lowers our debt. It weakens China’s military. It lowers Chinese pollution. And it encourages the CCP to spend its money helping the people so they don’t revolt. Everybody wins.


7 posted on 01/06/2019 10:29:28 AM PST by poinq
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: eyeamok

Well, if it’s planned, then it’s not current.


8 posted on 01/06/2019 10:32:02 AM PST by SeekAndFind (look at Michigan, it will)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

This downturn (as you call it) is a normal market correction and is probably very close (time and price) to being over.

The correction can be identified as either starting Jan./2018 or Sep./2018 depending on the degree.....but a correction none the less. Smart money is now buying as it always does at major bottoms.

Yes.....markets can make new arbitrary highs during the corrective process, i.e. Sep./2018.

It is generally noted that new bear markets are usually identified (by the media) when just about or already over....and this is why the public always sells at the lows and buys at the highs. They watch too much T.V.

Ask yourself this question: Would you let your local or national broadcaster manage your portfolio?

Most foreign markets are now completing their own corrections begun (in some cases) two years ago. Their corrections have been of a larger degree for the most part.


9 posted on 01/06/2019 10:33:28 AM PST by Diego1618 (Put "Ron" on the Rock!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Let’s see, low unemployment and a robust job market, inflation is under control, solid growth, hmmm. With “recessions” like this, who needs expansion?


10 posted on 01/06/2019 10:37:06 AM PST by FlipWilson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: poinq
The best we can do for the world is to tariff everything from China. It lowers our debt. It weakens China’s military. It lowers Chinese pollution. And it encourages the CCP to spend its money helping the people so they don’t revolt. Everybody wins.

That makes common sense so that is why it won't get done. Goldman Sachs runs the country and they are religious gloBULList zealots. There are bunch of those worm tongues in the Whitehouse.


11 posted on 01/06/2019 10:37:30 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Simple answer is no


12 posted on 01/06/2019 10:56:13 AM PST by Nifster (II see puppy dogs in the clouds)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

The stock market does not equal the economy. While the market, a collection of international companies, are hurting, local companies are growing and hiring.


13 posted on 01/06/2019 11:08:23 AM PST by Vince Ferrer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Nothing has really been fixed. Too much debt. No cuts to .gov No cuts to medicare/ss/medicaid, illegal immigration/visa overstays, no everify, no fixes to the medical monopolies, etc. Crash and burn on the way.
14 posted on 01/06/2019 12:16:47 PM PST by Theoria (I should never have surrendered. I should have fought until I was the last man alive)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
...and now that the Federal Reserve has increased interest rates and begun reducing its balance sheet, the Fed’s implicit support of high asset valuations has come to an end.

If the FED hadn't done what they did in the beginning of October, would the US Stock Market still have gone on Mr. Toad's wild ride ? or did it just start it earlier ?
15 posted on 01/06/2019 12:20:35 PM PST by stylin19a (2016 - Best.Election.Of.All.Times.Ever.In.The.History.Of.Ever)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Diego1618

Agree. By the timr it becomes a concern it is about over.


16 posted on 01/06/2019 1:23:06 PM PST by Sequoyah101 (It feels like we have exchanged our dreams for survival. We just hava few days that don't suck.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

It’s not a crash, and predictions about the future financial state of the country are useless.


17 posted on 01/06/2019 2:06:42 PM PST by I want the USA back (There are two sexes: male (pronoun HE), and female (pronoun SHE). Denial of this is insanity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

It’s not a repeat of 2008.

2008 was a culmination of seven years of absolutely reckless real estate lending.

Lending by shadow banks and pure mortgage lenders who decided to ignore the standards of conforming loans, since they could bundle the paper and sell it to others.

As a result trillions of dollars of dubious, high-risk mortgage paper was generated and sold, worldwide. And if you were paying attention you knew that we were in the mother of all bubbles.

There’s no similarly large bubble right now.

The overly popular FAANG big tech stocks were probably overpriced. And I’m certain that there is another bubble in California real estate, driven by overseas buyers. But there’s nothing as big as 2008 or 2000.


18 posted on 01/06/2019 2:24:48 PM PST by Pelham (Secure Voter ID. Mexico has it, because unlike us they take voting seriously)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sequoyah101
Agree. By the time it becomes a concern it is about over.

Correct....and another thing that is just silly and has spooked so many investors to stay out of the markets.....is interest rates on the rise..........

In a typically strong economy interest rates will go up because the demand for money goes up. It is the same as any other commodity....demand will cause scarcity and scarcity will cause higher prices whether it's apartments, lettuce, or good cigars! Money will get expensive when there is less of it and strong economies will ensure a scarcity and competition for money.

For eight years under the "Nobel Prize" winner we had zero interest rates because the demand for money was non existent. No one wanted to borrow....not sure what the dope would do. Enter Donald Trump and that fear has vanished. We are sure what he wants and it includes our best interests!

Up goes the demand for Investment Capital along with subsequent interest rates increases.

19 posted on 01/06/2019 2:25:18 PM PST by Diego1618 (Put "Ron" on the Rock!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Vince Ferrer

“The stock market has predicted 7 of the last 5 recessions”.

A quip worth remembering as Wall Street and Main Street aren’t the same thing


20 posted on 01/06/2019 2:28:40 PM PST by Pelham (Secure Voter ID. Mexico has it, because unlike us they take voting seriously)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson