Posted on 12/13/2017 5:38:49 AM PST by C19fan
The Russian Armed Forces have benefited from and been boosted by their operation in Syria, more than any other military intervention in Russia’s post-Soviet history. President Vladimir Putin used the opportunity of his visit to the Russian airbase in Latakia, on December 11, to announce a “withdrawal” of forces from Syria, while threatening future strikes if terrorists dare to “raise their heads.” Meanwhile, the chief of the General Staff, Army General Valery Geramisov, struck a similar tone in declaring that the Aerospace Forces (Vozdushno Kosmicheskikh Sil—VKS) effectively routed the Islamic State in Syria (Kremlin.ru, December 11). While these statements may appear hyperbolic, if not premature, there is no doubt that the Russian military has gained tremendously from its two-year involvement in Syria, deploying a comparatively small force, suffering only light casualties and avoiding becoming bogged down in the quagmire forecast by many Western governments. Yet, the extent to which the military has capitalized on the Syria intervention is evident in its use as a large-scale training opportunity for commanders; moreover, the lessons being drawn from the campaign are shaping the new Russian armaments program.
(Excerpt) Read more at realcleardefense.com ...
Syria isn’t any of our business...
Russian mercs are killing the shit out of ISIS....they surround them and then call in a 2S4 to annihilate them. They are using lots of jamming and letting only some phone calls go through.....good training. And Russian UAV operators are getting alot of experience too.
How exactly does a Russian “merc” call in the Russian Army massive 240 mm breech-loading mortar on a target?
That’s why the Russkies went to Assad’s aid in the first place...weapons test bed research...the Russkies think ahead, America reacts...
Too bad the US isn’t partnering with RF to hunt jihadists in Afghanistan, it sounds like they know how to get the job done.
The 2S4 is an old weapon, not a new one. Most units are Syrian, Russia only has 10 in service.
We do also, but the ROE prevents the US from operating as the Russian forces do - ‘kill them all anyway possible as fast as possible’ VS ‘call the lawyer before returning fire because it looks like women and other ‘civilians’ are present’.
3 years to defeat an enemy in a country the size of Florida and I think our SDF, the Kurds mainly, did a whole lot more than what the Russians did vs. ISIS, SDF took Raqqa, the ISIS capital. Research it for oneself, leave the braggadocio.
Russia did little against ISIS.
The same way ISIS has M1A1....and Peshmerga uses M106s?
Regardless of differing ROE, I still see a real opportunity lost by not partnering with Russia in the long war against jihadism in Afghanistan.
This failure is in no small part because of the inflexible attitude of a relatively small group of neo-liberals still dug in the upper echelons of leadership.
These are the same folks who thought it was a good idea to invade Iraq, encourage the Arab Spring, topple Libya and partner with Al Qaeda in Syria.
They're a chronic cancer that must be permanently removed from the body politic.
Anyways, ex Soviet/Russian only munitions are still being used. Infamously, they hit a school yard in Homs with horrific results and ISIS was hiding in a structure close by. Source: Russian only (never exported) cluster munitions from 2S4 in Syria.
ex Russian mortar crews are not that hard to come buy...Russia loves mortars and not hard to figure that a contract group, black group, or even SAA/Russian advisors are using 2S4s on groups of ISIS. They (whoever they are) have been using the thermobaric version of the 240mm shell, reportedly, also. . That is a relatively new munition.
3O8 240mm shell below
Excerpt from link:
Syria was one of the few states which received 240 mm heavy mortar systems from the Soviet Union, and has continued to employ them in service. During the Syrian Civil War, M240 towed mortars were used during the battle for Homs in 2012. Evidence of 240 mm mortar projectiles has been very scarce since that time. It may be that the Syrian Arab Army (SAA) had expended a significant portion of its stockpile of F-864 HE projectiles during these 2012 engagements. Some sources have suggested that the renewed use of 240 mm systems is related to increasing Russian support for the Syrian government, however this remains unconfirmed. Regardless, it appears that these munitions were most likely employed by SAA forces [or other forces].
1. I would have to see proof of “some soldiers walked into a hanger and took off their patches and uniforms, changed into new attire and started working for various contractors with a “wink and a nod” from Russia.” Russia is a professional army and you just don’t give up highly technical and professional solders that cost a fortune in training with a “wink and a nod.”
2. Firing mortars or arty accurately in “indirect fire” mode is not easy. ISIS never got the hang of it (all their pics of their capture artillery is in direct “flat” projectile mode when used in combat.
It is even harder with bigger projectiles over longer distances. Calling in a IDF strike would most likely get the observer killed if the guy on the “other end” doesn’t barely knows what he is doing.
How could they? With McCain standing there taking pictures with them, it would be great watching a few shells take out the CNN crew...
I followed the Russian campaign in Syria and here’s my take. The three years to defeat the ISIS / rebels was primarily due to lack / will of Syrian ground forces to press the land assault. Understandable given the Syrian forces were literally in tatters, ill-equipped and conscripted. It was a frustration the Russian command expressed numerous times that the air campaign alone could not dislodge the rebels. Ultimately the Russians just decided to pummel ISIS / rebels. Sniper teams were of limited value given most of the fighting particularly in Aleppo was literally building to building. In my opinion it was an ugly campaign with nothing off-limits using classic siege tactics to surround, starve and decimate anything that moved. Reminded me of the Russian 1999-2000 Grozny campaign.
First, Russians are whores, like the French, but less civilized. They go where the money is. Their pay and their standard of living SUCKS....and abuse by superiors and alcohol use is high. Secondly, since you and I aren't going to go on a sight seeing trip to Syria anytime soon, we have to look at recent Russian "professional" troops:
Exhibit A:
Possible Russian "professional troops" in civilian clothing acting as Pro-Russian "rebels" in Crimea:
Exhibit B: Multiple sources with google search "Russian Mercenaries" or "Putin's private army/armies" and you'll see non-state actions from Chechnya, Moldava, Eastern Ukraine, Crimea, Georgia/Armenia, South Ossetia, Libya, and especially Syria.
Russia’s Secret Mercenaries Fighting In Syria
Syria's Secret Russian Mercenaries
Russian mercenaries in the Donbass [to supplement pay]
Moldava sentences 150 for fighting as mercs in Ukraine [and elsewhere]
Russian mercenaries sign up for work in Syria
Meet the European fighters who have signed up to fight in the Ukraine [and Syria]
Anyways, you get the idea.
2. Firing mortars or arty accurately in “indirect fire” mode is not easy. ISIS never got the hang of it (all their pics of their capture artillery is in direct “flat” projectile mode when used in combat.
Wrong. 2S4 has guided round and is VERY accurate. IIRC from our WIC (Weapons intelligence course) at DIA, Russians are using the The latest modern munitions "Daredevil" system. They have direct line of sight laser targeting or a remote laser target detonator (1D15) and some satellite/cell/RF syncro equipment to increase their accuracy, have their targets “illuminated” by a laser beam in the later stages of flight (mortar rounds are lobbed in slow and usually don't come in screaming like conventional arty).
It is even harder with bigger projectiles over longer distances. Calling in a IDF strike would most likely get the observer killed if the guy on the “other end” doesn’t barely knows what he is doing.
They know what they are doing. They have LOTS of experience in the regions mentioned above.
Daredevil is like a 1980s vintage. Originally used in Afghanistan by Communist forces to supplement LGB in areas with higher manpad threat to aircraft where they had enough command to move heavy equipment on the ground. It proved to be more effective than expected.
...and our TOW missile system is 1970s era.
Their AK platform is 1940s era, our M2 is 1930s.....still in use today and even deadlier with accessories, upgrades, and better ammo.
They upgrade their gear, too....and its a thriving industry in Russia.
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