Ukraine Background: Conspiracies or Puppets [Vanity]

2/22/2014 | wikipedia

[PieterCasparzen]

ping

[BenLurkin]

[GeronL]

Seems to complicated to me.

Some want to join the EU, some want to be joined at the hip with Russia, I am sure some want to assert sovereignty and I am sure there are many small groups who will take advantage of the chaos to settle scores.

[GeronL]

Seems too complicated to me.

Some want to join the EU, some want to be joined at the hip with Russia, I am sure some want to assert sovereignty and I am sure there are many small groups who will take advantage of the chaos to settle scores.

[JPX2011]

Thought proving. Thank you for the post. If I can summarize: Ukrainian oligarchs set-up a NGO-based business council (read: star chamber) as part of their plan to assume power of post-Soviet Ukraine. Possibly with backing from Moscow. However, they are opposed by western NGO/foreign policy wonks interested in establishing a EU NWO. And the current upheaval is the result of clashes between these two interests?

[meatloaf]

Someone did a lot of homework. Ukrainians have very low earnings. Much of the corruption is to supplement paltry salaries. Many have college educations but can’t get work in their fields. Even of they can the low salaries are shocking. The EU represents the land of opportunity. Much of the industrial sector has not been modernized to be competitive with the West. Joining the EU would be a long process during which opening up Ukraine to foreign competition could hurt domestic production and cause massive job losses.

Many of the EU’s required changes would directly affect the cost of living making the lot of the average Ukrainian possibly worse especially those with a pension of maybe a $600 to $1,000 per year and no sons or daughters to help them in their old age. People can start collecting pensions at 55.

Ukraine is in a matter of speaking stuck. While the young and the demonstrators may want closer relations with the EU for access, there is a very big down side. Many in Ukraine do not understand that.

There is no simple solution to Ukraine’s problems.

[Jedidah]

Your statement that “it’s as if the entire nation is pretty much openly run by organized crime” echoes the opinion of a Ukrainian missionary that is associated with my church.

He insisted forcefully earlier this week that the American media had not told the full story, that this conflict is not about a trade agreement with the EU or Russia, but rather about a people fed up with corruption and rigged elections. The trade issue was just a spark, not the fire.

His first-hand account of the ongoing protest since November was both thrilling and chilling. Regardless of who is pulling the strings, I have utmost respect for the people of the Ukraine who have sustained this effort for months under brutal conditions. For months, they maintained supply lines to those camped in bitter cold and sang the national anthem en masse, on the hour, day and night.

Video from Tuesday, during the violence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6ypE3G_pgE

May good prevail, because other former Soviet states are watching.

[Jedidah]

And thank you, both for your research and for sharing it with us.

[PieterCasparzen]

I would check out the Ukrainian Oligarchs link at the top.

You can follow links to each one.

Some lean more towards Russia, some EU, some both.

American business (organized into the USUBC) figures in huge as well.

John Deer, Coca-Cola, Walmart, the list goes on...

From 8 companies in 2005 to over 200 now.

I’m sure EU companies are pushing in there as well.

Kraft has been selling products through a Ukraine subsidiary for almost 20 years.

You don’t need to have the EU agreement signed to do business there, the business has been going on all along.

The big oligarch’s company SCM employs 200,000 employees.

Big money.

The west tends to be more Euro, East more Russian.

[B4Ranch]

Thank you for gathering all this data together. I’ll need to study it for a few days to get a full picture.

[JPX2011]

Thank you. A question: the strategic significance of Ukraine? As a “breadbasket” for the EU or energy transportation for Russia? Both?

[21twelve]

“...and I am sure there are many small groups who will take advantage of the chaos to settle scores.”

I was reading some blog and the reporter was talking with a gal from some radical cell involved in the protesting. He asked her what she thought of the President giving into the demands, holding elections, etc. She replied “I don’t care about the politics - I’m a Radical. I just want to fight.” Sad. Hopefully these types of groups are relatively small and won’t hold much sway in the large scheme of things.

[PieterCasparzen]

He insisted forcefully earlier this week that the American media had not told the full story, that this conflict is not about a trade agreement with the EU or Russia, but rather about a people fed up with corruption and rigged elections. The trade issue was just a spark, not the fire.

IMHO...this is the view from the financial elites' (nwo) seat:

This was the direction things were going. Once you break pieces off the USSR, now they will be able to individually get closer to Europe. Only ethnic Russians would have the first instinct of staying close to Russia after independence.

The corruption of the oligarchs was an excellent thing for those who wanted to wait until the situation "ripened" and then move U to the EU.

The ripening period was a phase of "wild west". State-owned things are sold off to insiders - billions are made in this wild west mode. Keep the law out of the way of this "progress"; the competition will be nutso, actually violent, as men fight for lucrative monopolies. They skate on taxes, gov't doesn't spend much, so it doesn't need much. The big concern for foreign direct investment (FDI) is am I gonna be ripped off. So its a high risk high reward scenario. No one much trusts their government, they're all crooks.

Eventually, the monopolies are all about in place. Trade with other countries enables more profits; bad conditions for the working folks means cheap labor. Once the growth slows down, you've wrung out everything you can by having the country not doing much central banking. (their debt to GDP was about 70% at the end of 2012).

They knew the corruption would provide the impetus for the downtrodden population to push for change, when the time came.

Now that it's a "privatized" economy and billions have been earned, deals start being made with the new "oligarchs". The country will be transformed to not be the wild west so much. More legal conformance; more business legitimacy and stability. FDI can then increase. Gov't can start spending and taxing. It can be turned into a "little UK" or "little France", like Greece.

US/EU has been working with the oligarchs all along. The only people who didn't know this was coming were the general public who were not part of the activist unions, groups, etc.

The EU deal was floated and the guy didn't sign. The businesses are ready to make the switch. The opposition leaders already know the plan - this is when we do a Ukraine spring. They make a few calls, the word goes out - everybody's got their helmets and bottles ready. They have that great motivator - the agony of living under those darned oligarchs. Oops, I meant President.

[PieterCasparzen]

Thank you. A question: the strategic significance of Ukraine? As a “breadbasket” for the EU or energy transportation for Russia? Both?

You're welcome and Yes, and manufacturing and others. Gotta keep getting the government in line with EU legal standards.

It's called EU Acquis.

Then business can do business with a risk level similar to the rest of the EU.

You just give up your soveriegnty. It's easy, just close your eyes and it's all over. Feels like a pin prick.

[jonatron]

Thank you.

[FreedomPoster]

Let’s link Jeff Head’s summary here.

2014 Ukrainian Popular Revolt
“Vladimir, they aren’t coming back”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3126051/posts?page=1

[TigersEye]

You did a lot of work there. Thanks for putting that all together and posting it here for us. Will look at it closer when less tired. Thanks again!

[PGalt]

This is only a few details, a mere starting point for further research.

Thank you very much. Fascinating/very educational.

[PGalt]

Interesting analysis from Mark Hackard, American independent foreign policy analyst on a partition of Ukraine.

http://www.voltairenet.org/article182030.html