The Case That Jerry Sandusky Was Over-Charged & Penn State Was Innocent (Part 1 of 2)

youtube ^ | 11-19-13 | John Ziegler

[Colofornian]

Personally, if I was in Paterno's situation, unaccustomed to seeing anyone younger than high school junior recruits, and coming from a generation that it is nearly impossible to imagine the hideous evils that Sandusky was performing, I would think that others were more qualified to deal with the problem ... especially when it wasn't Paterno's job to deal with the problem. Paterno reported an incident that he didn't even see. His hand off was fumbled.

Allow me to comment on that last phrase of yours in this graph: "His hand off was fumbled."

You know it used to be called the "film room" in colleges...with updated technology it's known by different names these days...

But ever since the advent of filming college football games, guess what? Fumbles get reviewed by coaches & players. Over & over & over again, in fact!

In this case. Hmmm...a strange lack of oversight.

The fact is...every Penn State fumble that's occurred on the football field for these past 50+ years has received more "office" and "film room" review than what occurred amongst Penn State's Wide Receivers coach (later 'rewarded' as Recruiting head...see post #37) + Paterno + his AD + the communications guy + the Penn State Prez, etc.

So let's agree to your metaphor: The hand-off was fumbled.

So when McQueary was about to become -- or after he became -- wide receivers coach...why no review on that "fumble" you reference?

After all, say one of McQueary's wide-receivers fumbled a hand-off on an end-around...What? You don't think there would EVER be a review about that in the several days following that game?

Yet Paterno never reviewed that "fumble" you reference, eh?

This is what we're talkin' about: Sports power running so amok that every G-D Nittany Lyin' fumble gets reviewed to the nth degree; but JoePa & company NEVER giving a damn enough to review that "fumble" you reference.

Fumbles in football happen ALL the time. But they get reviewed. They get addressed. There's accountability. There's corrective practice procedures.

When it came to Penn State here. Get this thru your head: There was NO such internal review...

[Col Freeper]

I can't for the life of me imagine an adult who, when informed that someone was in the gymnasium showers raping a 10 year old boy, wouldn't drop everything they were doing and gather up as many available other adults and storm over to the showering area with clubs, and/or other implements, to rescue the boy. And on the way, calling the campus and off-campus police.

Anyone arguing about ANYTHING other than taking that type of immediate action is, in my mind, beyond strange, and working towards a hidden agenda.

[FlJoePa]

Victim #2 (the Mike McQueary/shower victim) came forward following the GJP (Grand Jury Presentment) and said nothing happened, and that Mike McQueary was lying. He said this in letters to the editor of 3 major newspapers, and also when he walked into an attorney's office in State College and gave a statement.

The prosecution didn't want anything to do with him, and pretended that he didn't exist, or that he wasn't the real Victim #2. After all, that would sink their entire case.

You have to remember that up until the GJP, there were only 2 victims. It wasn't until the outrageous (I'll say it - lying) that was contained in the GJP hit the media, that other victims started coming forward.

I know who Victim #2 is. I know his name. If I know it, then the PA OAG damn sure knew it as well. At the time, he just was too big of a risk to put on the stand.

The true Victim #2's sworn statement

[FlJoePa]

Where on God’s Green Earth did you get the idea that Mike McQueary told Joe Paterno that he saw js “raping” a boy in the shower? This is just pure pap - driven by the media and the piece of crap that was the freeh report.

It is debunked by McQueary’s own testimony.

Fina - the LEAD prosecutor in the js trial said this about Joe Paterno:

“I do not,” Fina said straight up when asked if Paterno participated in a coverup.

“And I’m viewing this strictly on the evidence, not any kind of fealty to anybody. I did not find that evidence.”

Put your big boy pants on and discuss this logically and factually, without hyperbole centered around myths about what Joe Paterno was told by Mike McQueary. Also read my other post with an actual .pdf of THAT victim’s statement regarding the shower incident.

Sheesh!

[gusty]

I disagree with your premise, but I will for now for arguments sake. If what you say is true, it still shows that Joe Paterno was a phony to his core. Like a long line of other phony coaches in the past and present, when given a chance to show true leadership and character, they fail miserably, every time. I bet Paterno got up in front of the crowd at rubber chicken banquets hundreds if not thousands of times giving some speech about leadership and character, and how he personified it at Penn State. But in the end it was just BS for the jock sniffers to devour. When given the chance to live up to his own standards, he retreated like the coward he really was into bureaucratic mumbo jumbo. He was more concerned about his own legacy than any of the crimes that Sandusky committed. A true jerk. A true hypocrite, who hid behind his holier than thou personae. A real man of character, not the lesser type like Paterno, would have marched right to the police and reported this heinous crime, all other considerations be damned. In the end, he would have been a hero if he did the right thing. That is the irony of this tragedy. But this strange and weird guy, and he was, took the route of selfishness and cowardice. The truth, he did what he did because he truly was a putrid little man. As for his defenders, I recognize them too. In my younger days I was an athlete in college, even played against Penn State in another sport. His defenders remind me of the pain in the ass hangers on, weirdos, who wanted to just hang out with athletes. True jock sniffers.

[bluetick]

Am I misremembering, or didn’t retired coach JS bring a boy toy to one or more away game or bowl game? And didn’t he even have the kid accompany him - like on a date - to the team meal?

And apparently Coach Paterno, who knew about the McQueery witnessed shower “horseplay”, never once said “what the actual f?”

[FlJoePa]

Yes, you’re misrembering. JS frequently took second mile kids to bowl games - along with his wife, WHILE he was a coach. This ended at the 1999 Alamo Bowl where PSU shutout A&M 24-0. That was his last game as a coach, and his last trip to a bowl game. No one ever gave it a second glance because js was always around second mile kids.

[Colofornian]

I can't for the life of me imagine an adult who, when informed that someone was in the gymnasium showers raping a 10 year old boy, wouldn't drop everything they were doing and gather up as many available other adults and storm over to the showering area with clubs, and/or other implements, to rescue the boy. And on the way, calling the campus and off-campus police. Anyone arguing about ANYTHING other than taking that type of immediate action is, in my mind, beyond strange, and working towards a hidden agenda.

Exactly.

Now here's the capper (something that the rah-rah Penn Staters don't seemingly care to confess):

The FACT that McQueary didn't do as you mention above, would seem to be a rather negative "feather" to his cap when it came to Paterno & the Penn State gatekeepers deciding upon who their head of recruiting would be, right?

I mean...even if it wasn't widely known at that time...who wants to hire a "coward" as your head of recruiting?? Don't you want someone's who bold & daring & someone who will be right out front in that role? Yes?

But that didn't stop the Penn State boys from "rewarding" McQueary with that promotion.

McQueary's two-step advancement thru the ranks AFTER he saw what occurred in the shower stall is a key tell-tale sign.

[FlJoePa]

Can you not read? Mike McQueary testified in court that he never saw a rape. That he never used the term rape. Period.

He also is on record as saying that he gave Joe a watered down version of what he THOUGHT he witnessed.

The whole “MM told Joe he saw a 10 year old boy being raped in the shower” is nothing but fiction and fantasy.

Joe did what he was supposed to do. Deal with it. The lead prosecutor agrees.

Sheesh again!

[Colofornian]

Am I misremembering, or didn’t retired coach JS bring a boy toy to one or more away game or bowl game? And didn’t he even have the kid accompany him - like on a date - to the team meal? And apparently Coach Paterno, who knew about the McQueery witnessed shower “horseplay”, never once said “what the actual f?”

Well, it was two bowls actually (involving victim #4): The '98 Outback Bowl & the '99 Alamo Bowl. In the '98 bowl, Sandusky was still a coach. He then retired in January '99.

The shower abuse occurred in 2000-->February 2001. A temp janitorial employee saw a 2000 abuse; he reported it to his boss; it went no further. McQueary's eyewitness was Feb '01.

[FlJoePa]

You’re simply delusional. MM was promoted 2 years after the Victim #2 incident. If there was a conspiracy involving a promotion for silence, why didn’t Joe just tell MM to keep his mouth shut? What was the payoff for Joe by rewarding MM with the promotion? Why did MM retain a relationship with JS? Why, 10 years later did Joe encourage MM to testify before a Grand Jury and simply tell the truth (which he didn’t do)? Why did Joe tell MM to get his own attorney because Cynthia Baldwin (PSU counsel) couldn’t be trusted? Why didn’t MM flip on Joe instead of praising his handling of the situation?

Quite a conspiracy.

[bluetick]

I was misremembering that JS, while retired, took a kid to a bowl game, but otoh I am finding no reports in the various timelines that JS “frequently took second mile kids to bowls games”.

Evidently, JS took a kid to the 1999 Alamo Bowl just before retiring.

[FlJoePa]

JS coached the Alamo Bowl. That was his last game. He took an accelerated retirement package that was offered by the state in 1998, but returned to coach in 1999 as an independent contractor.

[gusty]

So you hang your hat on that McQuerry did not see Sandusky actually buggering the ten year old. That’s good enough for you. For normal men, just seeing a nude 10 year old and a nude 50 something year old in the shower engaging in “horseplay” is enough. As per Joe, any water downed version would have raised the hairs on the back of a normal real man’s neck. But not Joe. What Joe should have done was act like a real man, not the phony he truly was.

[Col Freeper]

A real man of character, not the lesser type like Paterno, would have marched right to the police and reported this heinous crime, all other considerations be damned. In the end, he would have been a hero if he did the right thing. That is the irony of this tragedy.

Exactly my point to Colorornian, which the OP for this thread refuses to acknowledge.

The OP opened the thread with a challenge to all commenters that anything he disagreed with would be because the commenters are "Haters".

The OP will continue spitting and fuming at everyone. If he is lucky, he won't get Zotted, but I suspect that will be his fate, either from this thread, or from the next one he posts.

I don't intend to engage with him, as I think that's what he lives for.

Somehow he thinks he is going to get FReepers to not see the simple logic of your comment above, and listen instead to things like "well, Sandusky(sp?) was a 10 year old boy raper, but it wasn't rape-rape", or some such nonsense. And even if he was "well, what could anyone really do about it, y'know?"

Appreciated your post gusty, and yours too Colorfornian, goodnight to you both.

[Colofornian]

Mike McQueary testified in court that he never saw a rape. That he never used the term rape. Period. He also is on record as saying that he gave Joe a watered down version of what he THOUGHT he witnessed. The whole “MM told Joe he saw a 10 year old boy being raped in the shower” is nothing but fiction and fantasy.

Here's what I told a poster in March of this year -- after that poster tried this same Penn State tactic:

anybody who tries to parse the difference between child rape and

'fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy'

[McQueary's language contained in Grand Jury presentment, p.7...] is immorally sick to the max and should be noted as such by ALL Freepers)

[FlJoePa]

You don’t want facts. You just want to hang onto the crumbling false narrative. I don’t think I can help you understand if you don’t truly want to.

You go call 911 on a second hand account of horseplay in a locker room with a local legend and see where it gets you.

Joe immediately went to the policies/procedures book and it said to notify his superior. He did that the next morning.

Case closed.

[FlJoePa]

That's all great, if MM wouldn't have changed his story twice over the course of 10 years.

Maybe you should read this:

sort of an important link

[Colofornian]

JS coached the Alamo Bowl. That was his last game. He took an accelerated retirement package that was offered by the state in 1998, but returned to coach in 1999 as an independent contractor.

Read carefully. That's what I said. He was still coaching in '98 bowl; retired Jan. '99. But that doesn't mean he wasn't around with special VIP Penn State status for the '99 bowl game -- with victim #4 in tow. (He was)

In fact, it was his post-retirement special Penn State status as to why he still had shower room access @ Penn State when other sexual assaults took place there in 2000-2001.

Here, you can read about it in this timeline: The Penn State Scandal, Piece by Piece

[Colofornian]

If he is lucky, he won't get Zotted, but I suspect that will be his fate, either from this thread, or from the next one he posts.

Yes. Anybody promoting advocacy for a multiple-convicted pedophile in my opinion is nominating himself for a zot!

I don't intend to engage with him, as I think that's what he lives for. Somehow he thinks he is going to get FReepers to not see the simple logic of your comment above, and listen instead to things like "well, Sandusky(sp?) was a 10 year old boy raper, but it wasn't rape-rape", or some such nonsense. And even if he was "well, what could anyone really do about it, y'know?" Appreciated your post gusty, and yours too Colorfornian, goodnight to you both.

Well, I think reasoning with the lad is lost. I do it for the benefit of others reading this thread.

But, yeah. Good night.

And I likewise, bow out of this asenine thread (at least for tonight).