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My Turn - 10 Things that could have won this at the end (vanity)
Self | Nov 11, 2012 | Bobl (self)

Posted on 11/10/2012 6:53:22 AM PST by BobL

Yes, it's bad, but no the country has not (yet) completely rejected us or what we stand for.

So let me start by saying the next 4 years will be terrible (if I don't say all this, I will just be attacked as a nutcase). We'll likely end up with a hard-left Supreme Court (although the current court may give us a few good rulings first). The lower federal courts will all be hard-left too. Foreign and military policy will stink - but if we're lucky, nothing fatal or permanent will happen there, and we can hopefully build out of it. Other areas will be terrible too.

Rush says we were outnumbered and it cannot get better. I don't believe that was the case, at least not in this election. Yes, we were defeated, but NO it was far from inevitable. And yes, demographics are moving away from us, but no, demographics move very slow and there are at least a few more presidential elections before it becomes very difficult to win, but there are steps that can even delay that (although it's looking unlikely that we'll get enough of them).

So, the relatively optimistic vanity - simply because this election was not won by Obama, but rather it was lost by Romney and the Republican Party, and then only at the end - the last month. We had a candidate that ran a cool, disciplined, campaign - and then BLEW IT at the very end. They had a candidate that also ran a very disciplined campaign, but did not blow it at the end.

So here are my 10 reasons that we lost. If each of them could be worth a point for Romney, he would have won in a landslide.

1) ORCA - the Republican Get Out the Vote effort TOTALLY crashed on election day. Not surprising - Romney used computer programmers that drove junkers with Obama bumper stickers (just guessing here). Maybe that was all he could get, but he still should have had both independent electronic backup and hand backup at the same time. He didn't - he figured that since his laptop always worked, ORCA would always work. He was an IDIOT. Obama's people had their version of ORCA, but the guy working there likely drove the same car, with the same Obama bumper sticker - and Obama's people would have been a bit suspicious if they saw a well-dressed programmer with a Romney bumper sticker and no facial hair. The Romney people were IDIOTS here for putting all of their cards in one place.

2) Hurricane Sandy - took the spotlight off of the campaign, which didn't help things. It was a once-in-lifetime storm, and it was timed as the perfect October surprise. It gave the president a chance to get people's minds off the economy.

3) Governor Christie - he had NO REASON to invite Obama to NJ. This alone likely cost Romney the majority vote in the election. Bloomberg, who had political reasons to help Obama, told Obama to keep out and gave GREAT political cover to Christie. There was nothing stopping Christie from inviting Obama over on Nov. 7th (after the election). Romney's people did try to stop this sabotage, but could not. (p.s., I count these as different topics, because there was no reason for the second one).

4) Not believing the Polls - They figured that the polls were off by at least 5%. It never occurred to them that that's never happened before. They (and nearly all of us) were convinced of the same. So they figured they had it in the bag at the end. This leads into a number of other points.

5) Romney was winning - Given that the polls were right, after all, then Romney was actually winning after the first debate. If demographics were so bad, then how was it that Romney EVER had any lead - as Obama would have owned his 51% right through? Obviously this election was winnable for Romney - had it been held a week after the first debate. People were ready to support Romney and reject Obama.

6) Playing a pre-vent defense at the end. Going into the first debate, Romney was in huge trouble and was further down than he ultimately lost by. So Romney was aggressive (just like when he was on the ropes during the primaries) and picked up something like 10 points in that debate, and made Obama look like a fool. But then they had Ryan back off, and then Romney gave Obama a pass, especially on foreign policy. Dems will always screw up foreign policy, but Republicans have this thing about not using it against them. STUPID. You have to win, first. This was their biggest strategic mistake - Reagan would have also lost in 1980 if he had backed off of Carter and played defense (and he nearly lost in 1984 doing the same in the first debate). Pre-vent defenses ALWAYS fail, unless you're up by 30 points at the two-minute warning, which was never the case for Romney.

7) Rush falling into the Women trap. Rush had Obama's re-election plan called down to the tee, probably for over a year. Obama needed to get people's minds off of the economy, and the big group for that was single women. So what did Rush do (and sorry Rush, but this didn't help, at all) - he called Fluck (or whatever her name is) a slut. It was somewhat funny, but face it, most of his listeners cringed and the Dems had a field day making her into a victim (which she, of course, was not). Rush stuck with it and seemed more interested in showing that he could ultimately win-out over them (which he did), but the damage was done outside of his show - and the Dems thought Christmas came early.

8) Two IDIOT Senate Candidates. Again, the women trap. Is there ANYONE in the Republican Party that can train these types of candidates on how to handle questions on abortion and other sensitive social issues, or does the party just ignore them and hope they go away? Or maybe if The Establishment would support Tea Party candidates once in while at the start, they party might be able to train them a bit. A campaign is a pressure-cooker, especially for Republicans - the candidates have to be ready. A very easy answer to the abortion question regarding forcible rape is to simply say something like "It's not the baby's fault, and that's just how I feel - next question". If Akin had simply said that, him and 10 others would be taking over the Senate. But the damage, obviously, spilled over to Romney, as it got women thinking about something other than the economy.

9) The House stayed Republican. Again, if we're outnumbered, why isn't Pelosi the next Speaker?

10) Fraud and Voter ID. This is likely worth a million (or more) votes just on its own. Not easy to fix, but Voter ID would likely go most of the way. From what I could see in Texas, where we had the infrastructure in place, but was not allowed to use it - it can be very effective. Voters here had to show an approved ID (had it been in place, but we showed the ID anyway to speed things up), and then it was electronically entered. If it was a driver license or state ID, it was checked against state records and your name was checked off. If something else, not sure what happened - but passports are expensive to produce and there won't be many fake passports for one vote each.


TOPICS: Society
KEYWORDS: election; romney
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The above examples are meant to show that this election was winnable, but we had bad luck (Sandy), bad 'supporters' (Christie), bad candidates (worst I've ever seen for the Senate, in those two guys), a very bad closing (pre-vent defense), and some total IDIOTS (ORCA).

So I'll repeat again - yes, I know the next 4 years will bite (please don't attack me on that) - but NO it's not over yet, for us - we have not yet lost America.

1 posted on 11/10/2012 6:53:32 AM PST by BobL
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To: BobL

We wouldn’t be in this situation if McRino hadn’t pimped for hussein in ‘08 and if we still had a two party system.


2 posted on 11/10/2012 6:55:02 AM PST by bgill (We've passed the point of no return. Welcome to Al Amerika.)
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To: BobL

Really? The ONE thing that could of won was not nominate a liberal Republican.
Rush - hahahahah Fluke is a slut and Limbaugh made fun of her as it should be.


3 posted on 11/10/2012 7:00:34 AM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: BobL

I hate to point out the birdshit on your Pollyanna hat but MY house is worth half of what it was 5 years ago already. If you think there will be anything left in 4 more years you are joyful under a delusion.


4 posted on 11/10/2012 7:01:17 AM PST by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: bgill

“We wouldn’t be in this situation if McRino hadn’t pimped for hussein in ‘08 and if we still had a two party system.”

You won’t catch me EVER defending McCain. At least Romney wanted to actually win, even if he and the party ended up being incompetent.


5 posted on 11/10/2012 7:03:12 AM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: svcw

“The ONE thing that could of won was not nominate a liberal Republican.”

Of course...I didn’t mention the fact that we would still be cringing if Romney had actually won - because we would have not idea what he had in store.

“Rush - hahahahah Fluke is a slut and Limbaugh made fun of her as it should be.”

Yea, but not when they want you to do just that.


6 posted on 11/10/2012 7:06:28 AM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: BobL

Hurricane Isaac and Hurricane Sandy.

What are the chance of that??


7 posted on 11/10/2012 7:08:26 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper (Unbelievable/believable.)
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To: wastoute

“...but MY house is worth half of what it was 5 years ago already”

That’s because you overpaid. I left California (for Texas) rather than buy-in at those prices. I knew it was going to collapse and it did, UNDER BUSH.


8 posted on 11/10/2012 7:08:41 AM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: BobL

Barack Obama voter fraud 2012
http://www.ObamaVoterFraud.com/

Friday, November 9, 2012 - 22 Updates Posted Today and People You Can Contact! See FRIDAY UPDATES! *

Is this what Barack Obama calls a “ground game?” All things considered, on this page and elsewhere, Mitt Romney IS our President elect. Let’s do something about it!

I’ll be adding additional links on a regular basis and forwarding all of this information to Mitt’s campaign! Please send other links.

Evidence of massive Obama voter fraud in Colorado! Ten counties show 104% to 140% turnout!

http://www.redstate.com/2012/09/04/colorado-counties-have-more-voters-than-people/

Fraud: Some told they already voted, others brag about voting multiple times

http://www.examiner.com/article/fraud-some-told-they-already-voted-others-brag-about-voting-multiple-times

Crooked Politics: Obama Lost in Every State With Photo ID Law

http://american3rdposition.com/?p=8416

Philly Polling Stations Where GOP Inspectors Were Kicked Out Had 90% Voter Turnout, 99% Voted For Obama…

http://weaselzippers.us/2012/11/08/philly-polling-stations-where-gop-inspectors-were-kicked-out-had-90-voter-turnout-99-voted-for-obama/

[Sounds like those Black Panthers who kicked out the GOP observers and stood guard at the polling stations were not just trying to intimidate voters! They were hiding something!]

Voter Fraud Watch: Two Election Judges Replaced After Illegal Activity in Ohio - Fox News Insider

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/11/07/voter-fraud-watch-two-election-judges-replaced-after-illegal-activity-in-ohio/

Why the Polls are Wrong: Electorate is R+6

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2012/11/05/Why-the-Polls-are-Wrong-Poll-Shows-Electorate-is-R-6

Vote fraud alert: One out of five registered Ohio voters is bogus

http://www.humanevents.com/2012/09/17/vote-fraud-alert-one-out-of-five-registered-ohio-voters-is-bogus/#.UJrnpl7Imc0.facebook

via @BeachCity55 on Twitter: Senior parents in Florida told not to put their ballots through their reader but in a box. Senior votes in FL not counted?

Data Points To A Powerful Romney Campaign – And Yet…He Lost?
http://goo.gl/GB723

“You have to vote for Dems” NYC poll worker tells GOP Senate candidate #IllegalElectioneering
http://goo.gl/nn5CN

At least 70,000 report voting problems, mostly in swing states
http://goo.gl/jjCSX

Plane crash destroys Afghanistan US military ballots, most of which are for Mitt Romney
http://goo.gl/kNLFz

Obama’s pattern of disenfranchisement of the military vote
http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=48

Another Stolen Election? Election data HIGHLY suspicious AND the George Soros’ “Secretary of State Project” http://goo.gl/y1ybR

Yes, this is the same George Soros who owns part of the company in Spain Obama outsourced parts of the election to and who has been banned from Hungary because he tampered with elections there.

We will continue to add updates! Please check back often!

THURSDAY UPDATES:

From my friend Lynn Victory on Facebook:

“Thanks for what you are doing. My son is friends with a guy in the Romney campaign who has actually been on since 2008. He is not high up, but said that the O campaign bought high tech equipment to target county by county where the votes were needed in battle-ground states, so that they could “bus in the needed votes”. The guy would not say fraud, but that is fraud.”

Also this referral from Lynn:

White House Insider on Obama Steal the Votes Strategy (Just Before the Election)

“But…these Obama boys…they took it to a whole other level. Votes, donations…deals…it’s a lot more Putin than it is Clinton. Pay to play…Big Labor…this country never seen it at this level.”

http://theulstermanreport.com/2012/11/01/white-house-insider-governor-romney-is-gonna-win-this-thing/

Voter fraud witnessed in Wisconsin by one of Mitt’s ORCA observers:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=387389068009997&set=a.362561847159386.84375.361783440570560&type=1&theater

via Lori Patriot on Facebook:

52 Democrats arrested for VOTER FRAUD so far

http://www.newsnet14.com/?p=92957

VIDEO: Illegal Aliens Caught Voting and Stealing Elections In Florida In Vast Numbers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ILJDudUpct0

In 2008, John McCain Ignored Vote Fraud to Avoid Civil Unrest
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/46302

[See what that got us?]

Michael Savage: How Obama fixed 2012 election
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dmJtaOO2etc

Massive voter fraud discovered in April
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ILJDudUpct0

Is Voter Fraud Being Committed in Ohio? (Early Voting)
http://www.humanevents.com/2012/10/26/is-voter-fraud-being-committed-in-ohio/

FRIDAY UPDATES:

Pundit Press: What Luck! Obama Won Dozens of Cleveland Districts with 100% of the Vote
http://www.punditpress.com/2012/11/what-luck-obama-won-dozens-of-cleveland.html

Photo of Ethiopians brought to Ohio voting stations by busload, 95% of whom did not speak English, and told to vote for Obama, straight Dem ticket
https://www.facebook.com/lori.patriot/posts/404694619604138

“Did this Dirty Trick Get Obama Re-Elected?”
http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/did-this-dirty-trick-get-obama-elected/

Vote Fraud Expert: Romney Votes Not Counted in Key States
http://www.prisonplanet.com/vote-fraud-expert-romney-votes-not-counted-in-key-states.html

“Could we fix an election? Sure, they would never know it.”
http://theulstermanreport.com/2012/11/09/could-we-fix-an-election-sure-they-would-never-know-it/

Thousands of votes from our military troops uncounted or missing
http://www.examiner.com/article/cast-aside-thousands-of-votes-from-our-military-troops-uncounted-or-missing

Defense Department can’t put soldiers, ballots together
http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/defense-department-cant-put-soldiers-ballots-together/

Voter fraud in Pennsylvania - Black Panthers return, GOP inspectors thrown out
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/conscience-conservative/2012/nov/6/voter-fraud-pennsylvania-black-panthers-return-gop/

Ohio fraudulent voter registration cards
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Ohio-voter-registration-fraud/2012/11/03/id/462674

Ohio Residents Told They Already Voted When They Showed Up At the Polls Tuesday
http://godfatherpolitics.com/7942/ohio-residents-told-they-already-voted-when-they-showed-up-at-the-polls-tuesday/#.UJuBsqfTvHc.facebook

Poll Worker Puts Glendale Precinct’s Ballots on Car, Drives Away
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Ballots-Found-in-Glendale-Street-177720291.html

Referenced above, but with more information:

Two Ohio Election Judges Removed for Allowing Unregistered Voters to Cast Ballots
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/11/06/Report-Two-Election-Judges-Removed-By-Hamilton-County-Ohio-for-Allowing-Unregistered-Voters-to-Cast-Ballots

Democrat Admits He’s Voted FOUR Times Already
http://nation.foxnews.com/voter-fraud/2012/11/05/democrat-admits-hes-voted-four-times-already

Boston reports 129% voter turnout, 79% for Obama; 74% for Elizabeth Warren
http://poorrichardsnews.com/post/35319922188/voter-fraud-boston-reports-129-voter-turnout-79-for

This one could be just a calibration issue, but not necessarily based on the programer’s testimony in the next link:

Voting machine swaps Romney for Obama
http://www.marionstar.com/article/20121031/NEWS03/310310009

Programmer Testifies About Rigging Elections With Vote Counting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Hbf3iaEbAuY

VIDEO: Possible voter fraud in Pennsylvania — or just voting machine malfunction?
http://blogs.seattletimes.com/uwelectioneye/2012/11/06/possible-voter-fraud-in-pennsylvania/

Voter Fraud Complaint Filed against Florida Democrats
http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/voter-fraud-Florida-Democrats/2012/10/05/id/458894

“Ballot Re-writers” Update from Allen Westhttps://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=299196730187117&set=a.198312883608836.34844.198021666971291&type=1&theater

“Half the Democratic ground game is voter turnout. The other half is voter fraud.”

Voter Fraud: Obama Won 108% of Registered Voters in Wood County, Ohio
http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/voter-fraud-obama-won-%108-of-registered-voters-in-ohio-county/

Video: Diebold Whistleblower Speaks Out on Voter Fraud
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=k_rMpQKqZhM

BREAKING: St. Lucie County, Florida Had 141.1% Turnout; Obama Won County
http://www.ihatethemedia.com/breaking-st-lucie-county-florida-had-1411-turnout-obama-won-county

Between St. Lucie and Broward Counties, we have a pretty good idea what happened in Florida. Normal voting is what, 50% turnout? It doesn’t take many counties like this to affect an entire state by multiple percentage points.

All of these numbers between 99% (Pennsylvania) and 141.1% (Florida) turnout in dozens of counties in swing states makes me think Team Obama was panicking a lot just before the election, with Mitt up by 7% in certain early voting polls. They overcompensated so much the fraud is impossible to hide. I think they know it, which may be one reason Axelrod is stepping down. (Sound familiar Petraeus and Benghazi?)

As I told someone earlier today, this is who Obama is. This is who Chicago (the machine) is. Do we really want this to be who America is? Is this how we will define our elections from 2008 on? As Mitt says, “America can do better.” We must do better. We can’t let the message be out there that America will let this fraud go.

Want to do something about all of this? Tiffany Banks and Darin Southam forwarded me a list of people you can contact who are in the November 9, 2012 3:12 PM comment below.

Did you know voters can request a recount in certain states? (Ohio, Virginia, Florida, Wisconsin!) Take a look at the comment by @RightonMainSt dated November 9, 2012 11:45 PM below for instructions! Mitt will have to ask in Colorado himself. (Yes, you Mitt!)

It has also been suggested that we ask Republican Secretaries of State NOT to certify the election until all questions about voter fraud are abated. Some people think this may provoke a crisis, but it can’t be worse than the one we are looking at for the next four years and the impact on generations to come! America NEEDS Mitt, and Mitt won fair and square. This was not a ballot stuffing competition but an election. Let’s make sure it’s counted that way!

Thank you all. Over 7,500 people have visited this page in the first 24 hours and I hope millions will see it eventually. Please pass it on! We can do this! (Yes we can!)


9 posted on 11/10/2012 7:12:48 AM PST by patriot08
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To: BobL
A very easy answer to the abortion question regarding forcible rape is to simply say something like "It's not the baby's fault, and that's just how I feel - next question". If Akin had simply said that, him and 10 others would be taking over the Senate. But the damage, obviously, spilled over to Romney, as it got women thinking about something other than the economy.

Another good way to handle it is as follows. Just say two things, and nothing else:

1. Rape is a crime and the perpetrator should be punished.

2. Abortion should only be considered if the life of the mother is unquestionably threatened by continuing the pregnancy.

Then call for the next question. Say no more. Shut your big mouth. The first answer frames the question properly and places the responsibility on the perpetrator, where it should be. The second sums up your position without injecting concepts like "legitimate rape", a magic uterus, or God's will, things that the media will twist and conflate and utterly destroy you with, and of course the average voter, not being very smart, will buy it.

10 posted on 11/10/2012 7:13:04 AM PST by chimera
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To: chimera

“Shut your big mouth.”

I thought that was directed at me, LOL. Yes, your answer is better than mine...but even mine would probably be enough to keep it off the headlines, yet still not compromise anything. And I agree - life of the mother is certainly acceptable - since someone will die either way (anyway).


11 posted on 11/10/2012 7:17:26 AM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: BobL

I think it was #1Orca, all the way. Sandys political impact seemed to have been limited to the impacted NE states. The other items are all hindsight is 20/20 items with negligable impact relative to the GOTV plan collapsing without a fallback.


12 posted on 11/10/2012 7:18:02 AM PST by tanknetter
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To: BobL

One word: GINGRICH.

He’d have wiped the floor with jugears.


13 posted on 11/10/2012 7:19:06 AM PST by kjo (+)
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To: wastoute

Lotta people are being real quiet right now: Ryan, Palin, Newt, others.... why?


14 posted on 11/10/2012 7:22:53 AM PST by txhurl (Once you go Asian, you never miss an equation.)
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To: patriot08

Excellent, patriot08! I’ve saved your post to read and email later. I don’t *do* facebook and most of my contacts don’t either so I’ll send this on to them.


15 posted on 11/10/2012 7:24:01 AM PST by azishot (When your life is on the line, lead is worth more than gold.)
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To: BobL

This was not about Obama. This was not about Romney. This was not about Republican or Democrat.

In 2008 we got to find out who Obama was. In 2012 we got to find out who the American people are.

This is about the electorate.


16 posted on 11/10/2012 7:25:32 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: BobL

1. Simply don’t know.
2. I believe would have actually helped Romney if it hit in the right area. It hit in an area that was largely irrelevant to the GOP.
3. No. Had nothing to do with it. Chris Christie did what he needed to do for his State. Be that as it may, I do not support Chris Christie for 2016.
4. I didn’t believe the polls either and I had a built in 5% Obama deficit. I guess the Bradley or Dinkins affect doesn’t exist after all.
5. I believe the election was winnable, just not by Romney as I think Romney ran a near tactical perfect campaign.
6. Disagree. It’s really really tough to go head to head on foreign policy against a sitting President. Romney did perfect on debate #3.
7. Rush is great, but I don’t take him for more than he is, a political entertainer.
8. Bingo, Bingo, Bingo. We have a winner here. Stupid candidates sabotaging their own campaigns and muddling the message of Romney.
9. #8 dragged the Senate down along with Romney. The house stayed the same because house seats represent districts and as the red/blue map shows us, there are more red districts than blue.
10. I don’t think fraud really works at the presidential level in general, maybe if it’s close. This wasn’t close. Most fraud is for state and local elections.

#8 is the winner.


17 posted on 11/10/2012 7:25:56 AM PST by Usagi_yo
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To: txhurl

“Lotta people are being real quiet right now: Ryan, Palin, Newt, others.... why?”

They are in shock - and it was ALL due to thinking the polls were wrong and this would be a blowout. They’ll get their footing.


18 posted on 11/10/2012 7:29:33 AM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: BobL
FWIW, I would not say that to a FReeper in good standing. The mother's life exemption is logically defensible as you note. Tragic, but medical necessity sometimes has cruel and tragic outcomes. Akin and Mourdock both have the correct position on the issue, they just said stupid things that allowed their position to be twisted and caricatured and that blew up both campaigns. So the moral of the story is, have the right positions, and be smart about articulating them. Captain Obvious, I know, but ignoring that cost us two Senate seats this year.
19 posted on 11/10/2012 7:30:00 AM PST by chimera
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To: chimera
Another good way to handle it is as follows. Just say two things, and nothing else:

Actually, Republicans need to STFU altogether about abortion. Abortion is to Republicans what gun control is to Democrats; a net vote loser. Pro-life accolades bring nobody new to the party. They only drive people away.

Candidates need to understand that Roe v. Wade is the Law of the Land (and is highly unlikely to get overturned) and this should be their answer. They can vote for pro-life initiatives once elected. Demanding an anti-abortion litmus test from every Republican running for office is a recipe for disaster. How many babies are Akin and Mourdock saving these days? Their idiocy drove away millions of female and moderate voters and gave the pro-abortion side two more Senators.

20 posted on 11/10/2012 7:30:35 AM PST by Drew68
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To: Usagi_yo

“2. I believe would have actually helped Romney if it hit in the right area. It hit in an area that was largely irrelevant to the GOP.”

I won’t respond to all of them, but if it didn’t hurt Romney, why did Romney’s campaign do everything they could to stop Christie - and why did Rush go after Christie the way he did? This one hurt.


21 posted on 11/10/2012 7:32:23 AM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: chimera
>>A very easy answer to the abortion question regarding forcible rape is to simply say something like "It's not the baby's fault, and that's just how I feel - next question". If Akin had simply said that, him and 10 others would be taking over the Senate. But the damage, obviously, spilled over to Romney, as it got women thinking about something other than the economy.
>
>Another good way to handle it is as follows. Just say two things, and nothing else:
>1. Rape is a crime and the perpetrator should be punished.
>2. Abortion should only be considered if the life of the mother is unquestionably threatened by continuing the pregnancy.
>
>Then call for the next question. Say no more. Shut your big mouth. The first answer frames the question properly and places the responsibility on the perpetrator, where it should be. The second sums up your position without injecting concepts like "legitimate rape", a magic uterus, or God's will, things that the media will twist and conflate and utterly destroy you with, and of course the average voter, not being very smart, will buy it.

Better yet, when the question about such rape comes up respond with: "Why do you want to kill someone for something that their parent did? Your position makes as much sense as throwing you in prison for 20 years because your mother cheated on her taxes."

22 posted on 11/10/2012 7:35:39 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Drew68

“Actually, Republicans need to STFU altogether about abortion. Abortion is to Republicans what gun control is to Democrats; a net vote loser. Pro-life accolades bring nobody new to the party. They only drive people away. “

I wouldn’t go that far...because I’m convinced that the issue has brought out millions of voters for Republicans (through the years) that otherwise would have stayed home.

But yes, short answers - maybe even give a pass on forcible rape (along with life of mother). But trying to drop it completely will leave the Republicans with a base to work from.


23 posted on 11/10/2012 7:37:27 AM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: cuban leaf
This was not about Obama. This was not about Romney. This was not about Republican or Democrat.

In 2008 we got to find out who Obama was. In 2012 we got to find out who the American people are.

This is about the electorate.

Very good summation. That is what many of us find most disheartening and depressing about this election. We have labored under the illusion of two key points:

1. The country basically has a center-right political alignment, and

2. In the end, we can trust the intelligence and judgment of the average American voter.

Both assumptions were proved false by the last election. From here on, we cannot assume either is true, and if we do, we do so at our political peril.

Say what you will about Romney, but in the end he was not a bad candidate. He embodied many of the things we believe in, self-reliance, hard work, love of God and family, personal achievement, helping ones neighbor through personal (not government) charity, and American exceptionalism. The electorate rejected that in favor of a "man" who believes in none of that, except perhaps love of family. We at least now can see what a challenge we face, and it is daunting, to say the least.

24 posted on 11/10/2012 7:39:20 AM PST by chimera
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To: OneWingedShark

“Why do you want to kill someone for something that their parent did? Your position makes as much sense as throwing you in prison for 20 years because your mother cheated on her taxes.”

NO!! That would also get thrown in our faces. The media would say something like “Joe Shark thinks that abortion is no different than killing someone.”

At least that’s my take on how it would get twisted.


25 posted on 11/10/2012 7:40:03 AM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: BobL
But yes, short answers - maybe even give a pass on forcible rape (along with life of mother). But trying to drop it completely will leave the Republicans with a base to work from.

Then say goodbye to female voters (and winning elections).

26 posted on 11/10/2012 7:41:25 AM PST by Drew68
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To: BobL

I do think at least it has made abortions fewer, I think today there is a stigma associated with abortion that wasn’t there before....perhaps instead of trying to address social issues in the political realm, it’s more effective to direct those efforts outside of it, through social sanctioning.

However, one thing the Democrats want to do is to prohibit even allowing social sanctioning, by limiting free speech. But that can be framed more as a liberty issue than a social issue, which is a win for our side.


27 posted on 11/10/2012 7:41:49 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: Drew68
Actually, Republicans need to STFU altogether about abortion. Abortion is to Republicans what gun control is to Democrats; a net vote loser. Pro-life accolades bring nobody new to the party. They only drive people away.

Candidates need to understand that Roe v. Wade is the Law of the Land (and is highly unlikely to get overturned) and this should be their answer.


Some of us just can't accept infantcide.

As far as “law of the land” goes, technically the actions of the NAZIs in pre WWII Germany were perfectly legal. Many cooperated because it was the politically expedient thing to do.

Your comment helps me understand the mindset of those who cooperated with the NAZIs.

28 posted on 11/10/2012 7:44:27 AM PST by Rides_A_Red_Horse (If there is a war on women, the Kennedys are the Spec Ops troops.)
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To: chimera

“1. The country basically has a center-right political alignment, and

2. In the end, we can trust the intelligence and judgment of the average American voter.”

I do agree that Romney was a strong candidate, I was just noting that his tactics at the end (sitting on a tiny lead), and some really bad luck (hurricane and Senate candidates) cost it for him. McCain, on the other hand, was simply PATHETIC.

As to your points above: Yes, the country is slowly drifting left, given our immigration policies and inability to integrate those people. But if the country was already there, the election would have been a lost-cause from the start.

Regarding the American people - you’re right. No politician should EVER trust the American people, as a whole, to sift through the noise. The Democrats never do, but Republicans, time after time, figure that constant attacks are just brushed off. And they are for you and me, and the people surrounding Romney - but they ARE NOT for the 20% of Americans that decide elections.


29 posted on 11/10/2012 7:45:50 AM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: BobL

Branding, and the MSM. Romney wasn’t the perfect candidate. But no one will be. Look Romney was soft on abortion and it still didn’t matter. We are still being branded as sexist old white guys.

We have got to fix our brand or at least contradict the way it’s being potrayed and we need to do that effectively. And we haven’t.

We need a powerful movement headed by someone like Deniis Prager and we need our own news channel. Fox sure isn’t it. Hell, I even hate O’Reilly and Hannity and I agree with them! But I just can’t stomach them and the wife can’t either.


30 posted on 11/10/2012 7:46:33 AM PST by Chuzzlewit
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To: Drew68
Yes, that is another possible strategy, the stealth approach. Don't make it a centerpiece of your campaign, but stick to your principles and when the issues come up for a vote (if they ever do, things like funding and health care policies), then vote the pro-life position. You're right that there is unlikely to be legislation introduced at the Federal level to address Roe v. Wade unless a Human Life Amendment is introduced again. But we have to have it reversed at the USSC and that means pro-life judges. Obama is likely going to make two or perhaps three appointments to the USSC this term and losing those two Senate seats will hurt us in that battle.
31 posted on 11/10/2012 7:48:15 AM PST by chimera
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To: Drew68

“Then say goodbye to female voters (and winning elections). “

Reagan won two landslides when abortion was a much bigger issue, and he did fine with women.


32 posted on 11/10/2012 7:49:34 AM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: BobL; OneWingedShark

NO!! That would also get thrown in our faces. The media would say something like “Joe Shark thinks that abortion is no different than killing someone.”


Abortion is killing someone!


33 posted on 11/10/2012 7:53:15 AM PST by Rides_A_Red_Horse (If there is a war on women, the Kennedys are the Spec Ops troops.)
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To: OneWingedShark

Another good answer. Would that our candidates were as politically astute as FReepers, at least on this particular issue.


34 posted on 11/10/2012 7:53:28 AM PST by chimera
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse
Some of us just can't accept infantcide.

Well, that's special. In case you've been asleep for the last few days, we now have the most pro-abortion president in the history of the republic. Scalia is 77 years old. Kennedy is 78. Not only will abortion remain legal but now we're going to have to pay for it. Two solidly pro-life Senatorial candidates were leading in the polls until they opened their fat mouths.

So you can go on demanding that every Republican candidate kiss the feet of Operation Rescue and then look stupefied when their opponents win elections.

35 posted on 11/10/2012 7:56:33 AM PST by Drew68
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To: Drew68

Then say goodbye to female voters (and winning elections).


A lot of women, particularly among those who regret having had an abortion, are pro life. Pro abortion women who have had about seven or eight, such as Woopie Goldberg (in her own words) tend to blur the datum.


36 posted on 11/10/2012 7:58:20 AM PST by Rides_A_Red_Horse (If there is a war on women, the Kennedys are the Spec Ops troops.)
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To: BobL
Reagan won two landslides when abortion was a much bigger issue, and he did fine with women.

That was 32 years ago, a mere 6 years after R v. W. Reagan won landslides when white males were the majority of voters and he won by appealing to formerly democrat white male blue-collar factory workers. Demographics have changed significantly since then.

37 posted on 11/10/2012 7:59:30 AM PST by Drew68
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse
A lot of women, particularly among those who regret having had an abortion, are pro life.

And even more women want abortion to remain legal. And women vote more than men. So where does that leave us? With losing candidates, that's where.

38 posted on 11/10/2012 8:03:01 AM PST by Drew68
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To: Drew68

Actually, Republicans need to STFU altogether about abortion


Agree.

Response should be “ its the law of the land” and that’s all I’ll comment on it.

If pressed on personal opinion answer

It’s not mine to decide.

When the voting population wants it to change I will represent their desire.

Stick to that, and don’t fall into the “ act of god” exceptions etc.....
required


39 posted on 11/10/2012 8:06:12 AM PST by patriotspride
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse

“Abortion is killing someone!”

Of course, but saying exactly what you think doesn’t always win - and if you don’t win, how do your fix it. I have no doubt that there are many, many, Republican candidates that have some pretty nasty thoughts regarding blacks and Hispanics, yet they know to keep them to themselves, if they want to win. All we’re doing is saying the same here - keep the thoughts that will cost you election, but you don’t have to compromise principles to do so.


40 posted on 11/10/2012 8:11:39 AM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: patriotspride
When the voting population wants it to change I will represent their desire.

And this is the best answer.

I've noticed that the liberal media rarely ask Democrat candidates to articulate their position on gun control. They understand that a truthful answer will only hurt these candidates so they give the issue a pass. Pro-life Republicans need to learn how to play this game as well and answering as above will help take the issue off the table and not drive away voters.

41 posted on 11/10/2012 8:15:32 AM PST by Drew68
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To: BobL
Good analysis of the failure. I agree with every point.

8) Why can't the GOP coach their candidates on how to answer controversial questions? They don't have to use the democratic approach - lie, but there is such a thing as tact.

"Do you think a woman should be forced to endure a pregnancy caused by rape?"

"Oh gee, I never thought about this before. But since the unborn child is innocent, I guess so"I can't conceive of a time when that would be the law of the land.

Is that sooo difficult? Does that compromise his precious socon credentials? If you want to make a better world, first you have to win elections.

42 posted on 11/10/2012 8:16:13 AM PST by stop_fascism (Love your country, but never trust its government - R.A. Heinlein)
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To: BobL

Everything Benedict Judas Christie did after being passed over for VP hurt Romney, starting with his key note speech. You cannot convince me he wasn’t trying to sabotage Romney to further his career. I hope he enjoys the ninth ring of hell.


43 posted on 11/10/2012 8:30:56 AM PST by stop_fascism (Love your country, but never trust its government - R.A. Heinlein)
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To: stop_fascism

“Everything Benedict Judas Christie did after being passed over for VP hurt Romney, starting with his key note speech. You cannot convince me he wasn’t trying to sabotage Romney to further his career. I hope he enjoys the ninth ring of hell.”

Agree. But if Christie is planning to run as a Republican, he will have a LOT to answer for - we remember Charlie Crist (in Florida) and we CRUSHED HIM. Christie is welcome to try to make his case to the country (which was on very shaky ground even before this stunt - starting with gun control).

If Christie wants to run as a Democrat, he can forget that also - he angered the teachers. Maybe an independent - but how would that work?


44 posted on 11/10/2012 8:37:11 AM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: BobL

I hope you’re correct, but the Republican establishment seems anxious to give Christie a pass. Can they force him down our throats? At this point, who knows. Rubio crushed Crist. Hopefully he will do the same with Obama’s lap dog.


45 posted on 11/10/2012 8:50:35 AM PST by stop_fascism (Love your country, but never trust its government - R.A. Heinlein)
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To: BobL

yes, THIS election was winnable, but future ones won’t be. Obama will make citizens (Democratic voters) out of millions of illegal aliens, and register them in swing states, and that will be the end of the story.


46 posted on 11/10/2012 9:07:07 AM PST by Behind the Blue Wall
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To: Behind the Blue Wall

“yes, THIS election was winnable, but future ones won’t be. Obama will make citizens (Democratic voters) out of millions of illegal aliens, and register them in swing states, and that will be the end of the story.”

Hopefully we can delay this a bit - but you are right, the threat is certainly there.


47 posted on 11/10/2012 9:30:40 AM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: BobL

The big likely things I see here are:

* The abject failure of ORCA.
* Romney’s decision to take the high road in the last debate rather than taking it to Obama (although the latter might not have worked, either)
* Christie
* Todd Akin
* Campaign strategy based on a misinterpretation of the polls


48 posted on 11/10/2012 9:36:39 AM PST by Jeff Winston
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To: BobL
NO!! That would also get thrown in our faces. The media would say something like “Joe Shark thinks that abortion is no different than killing someone.”

If one takes the stance that abortion is murder than it is killing someone; I have not problem having people think I believe that, because it is true.

49 posted on 11/10/2012 9:37:11 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse
Candidates need to understand that Roe v. Wade is the Law of the Land (and is highly unlikely to get overturned) and this should be their answer.

Funny, Roe v. Wade derives the right to abortion from a right to privacy... yet the Fourth Amendment specifically is about privacy (people, their persons, and effects) and the government abrogates this privacy, without warrant, every day: it is after all the express job of the TSA. (This is ignoring the arguments from no-knock raids, secret wiretapping & e-mail interception done without warrant.)

So then, if Roe v. Wade is valid then these other actions must be invalid. {If Roe v. Wade is invalid, it says nothing about these actions.}

50 posted on 11/10/2012 9:45:00 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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