Posted on 04/30/2012 1:22:04 PM PDT by Sopater
Relying on the anonymity of FR, I'm hoping for some candid discussion on how members deal with the "No Weapons on Property" prohibitions if they carry concealed. In WI, the fine is up to $500 and up to 30 days in jail for carrying on a property where it posted that weapons are prohibited.
Some send a polite letter explaining “I’d like to be a patron of your establishment, but the sign indicates you don’t want my kind around. Just thought you should know I’ll be taking my money elsewhere.” Many such signs have come down as a result.
If it is a place of business ..take your business elsewhere
If you HAD to use it what's there to weigh? Being out $500 and maybe a month in jail or possible DEAD?
Easy choice, really.
Does it say”weapons” or “guns”? If it says “weapons” how is that defined? It sounds like the law may be too vague to be enforceable. I taught martial arts for 15 years and I can make a deadly “weapon” out of a rolled up magazine.
Do NOT carry on such premises. You could lose your right to carry forever.
It’s sounds stupid, because you might be thinking, “But I could lose my life!” As other posters have suggested - just go somewhere else.
Personally, I think I would respect their private property rights and simply inform them, as others have stated, that I won’t patronize their business (if that is an option) due to this.
Unfortunately, going against their private property rights may result in lawsuits that could jeopardize the concealed carry laws. You just need one activist judge in the pipe. Don’t give the anti-gun folks any opportunity to attack rights.
Rule 0: Don’t tell them you are carrying.
Like so many other things if you don’t get caught it really isn’t against the law. And really with a weapon situation if something happens where you need to be armed a $500 fine is better than dead.
Use your head. If the property owner says Don’t Carry, then Don’t. Carry. It’s pretty simple....
Unless you want to spend many thousands of dollars defending your “rights”...or risk losing them, or worse.
leave a business card stating why you and friends won’t spend $ there.
http://www.persecusa.com/html/free/freestuff-merchantcards.htm
Take your business elsewhere, or just don’t show off the weapon.
Let me also put it this way:
You may not only lose your right to carry, but every firearm in your possession. All that has to happen is for you to get arrested, someone decides you shouldn’t possess firearms while the case is adjudicated, and then the guns are NEVER given back.
Is that a $500 fine in your case, or a $5000 fine?
Case in point: I once had a knife confiscated by the cops after some guy attacked me with a baseball bat. *The knife was never on my person during the assault*, I never pulled the knife in defense, and there was a stack of witness testimony that just said I beat the guy back with my fists, but I never saw that knife again.
Get it?
Do they have a large sign on every entrance door? Most places I’ve seen only have one very small sticker on only one entrance door and its just a handgun in a circle with a diagonal line. I always figured I’d just say I never saw the little tiny sticker...I went in through a different door that didn’t have the sticker.
Whut??
No hot babe at your side, Laz?
How much do you need to go there? I just stay out of those establishments. If you need to go and there is a chance of a patdown (e.g. sporting events, concerts, etc), you leave the gun in the car. If there is no chance of a patdown, I consider the neighborhood and decide appropriately.
Some posters here claim that 30 days in jail is easy and worth carrying their gun (which would be a weapon’s offense and probably cost them their CCW for life). Most of us would lose our jobs if we spent a single work day in jail.
My advice is just avoid the business. Tell them why.
I would either not carry or not go in.
I’m not worried about the fine, $500 in the grand scheme of things is nothing, I don’t want to lose my carry permit forever.
With my luck, I’d slip on a wet floor, the gun would show and I’d be talking to the cops.
Where I live that is a legal defense - it was not properly marked. Also where I live it is only considered a trespassing charge. And that is if they notice it and they ask you to leave and you don’t.
The big one for me is the schools. So far I have remained legal and not carried going to my kid’s schools.
She drew the picture don’tchaknow.
The eagle is a female.
If I saw a sign like that I would avoid the place because it’s an open invitation to maniacs like that guy that shot up the Luby’s in Texas or that Korean that opened fire on those college kids in Virginia.
They know that no one is armed to stop their rampage.
Does it say”weapons” or “guns”? If it says “weapons” how is that defined? It sounds like the law may be too vague to be enforceable. I taught martial arts for 15 years and I can make a deadly “weapon” out of a rolled up magazine.
_______________________
I agree with this statement. Your fists/hands can be a weapon. Your car keys can be a weapon. Your pocket knife, ink pen... etc...etc... Are you then required to amputate yourself in order to patronize this establishment? Screw em. Go elsewhere.
Honor their property rights, bypass their establishment and, if you must enter and something dreadful should happen, sue the ever-lovin’ carp out of them for failure to execute their implied duty to defend you when they denied your right to self-defense. One or two of those cases goes toward a win and we might see a rethink of the gun-free-victim-rich zone signs.
Respect property rights
I think that respect for the Rule of Law requires adherence to the letter of the law: the vendor’s property rights as well as the criminal statute. Don’t patronize such businesses, and tell them in writing why you are not patronizing them.
You need some support panty hose there man.
In my state, if you carry in a prohibited place and get caught, you lose your license and possibly prosecuted. I wouldn’t chance it. If it is an optional visit, I’d make sure that place lost my business, permanently - and I’d let the owner know.
If the property owner prohibits you from coming onto his property with a gun, then you have to obey. Its called private property rights... you have the choice of either not patronizing the establishment or leaving your gun behind. Its as simple as that.
In Texas, read the sign carefully. Most of them say the Unlicensed gun is prohibited. IOW, if you have a C & C license, you’re good to go into the establishment.
Simple reality, you want your rights respected you should respect others. If a private property owner has a posted no guns allowed, respect it, or just don’t go there.
You can’t assert and gripe about your rights needing to be respected if you won’t respect others as well.
That is supposed to be the purview of the NRA but they seem to be getting more cowardly, kowtowing and co-opted with each passing day.
In Iowa you can carry on their property but must leave if they tell you to leave. If you refuse then they can involve the police and you will lose your permit to carry.
I carry concealed and have never had a problem. My BIL carries open and has actually caused some businesses to post “no guns allowed on property” because he wants to show everyone he is armed.
I myself like the edge concealed carry gives me. The element of surprise is a good thing.
I can’t believe you let your eagle smoke! Don’t you know that second-hand eagle smoke kills 7 million people and small puppies every hour?! It is also the major cause of global warming, budget deficits and Lady Gaga. How selfish of you!
It’s hard to argue with the “respect their property rights” argument. I think I’ll heed that advice and not patronize the establishment. I’ll also send a letter to the establishment so that they can note my complaint and consider their policy.
Now what you need to improve that picture is a stylized hero version of Sarah Palin at his side ready to kick butt and I’d post that picture as far and wide as I can!
My current house is within 400 feet of a public gradeschool so I don’t give a ratsass about that stupidass law.
“Its called private property rights”
Funny, while you are on your highhorse about private proeprty rights you don’t seem to mention the person as private property and the rights of that property, such has the right to self defense and private concealment. What’s next, the right to search my wallet?
That’s their property. They don’t even have to allow you to set foot on it. I don’t allow strangers to come on my property with weapons. And no, it wouldn’t be physically possible, either.
A property owner is within his natural rights to make your entry conditional on you submitting your wallet for inspection - and you are within your natural rights to decline those terms and not enter.
If it's private property then it's a no brainer..respect their rules.
Respect their private property rights but let them know very politely that you will not shop etc. there.
Rule 0.1: When hunting on private land that is posted with "No Hunting" signs, hide your firearm if you are caught and simply tell them you are just out hiking........
So the story goes like this: Our former county prosecutor and huge concealed carry proponent starts to walk into a local big chain supermarket and notices the “No Gun” sign.
He calls the store and ask the manager to meet him outside the building. He then tells the manager that as a former prosecutor but now civilian he must be able to protect himself but cannot if he must disarm before entering the store. He tells the manager that he will hold him personally responsible as would his estate should he be harmed or killed while on the store property since the manager assumed a level of extraordinary care and liability by disarming the patrons. The store manager promptly removed the sign. BTW this big chain does not have those signs up anywhere so it was a call made by the manager.
The ultimate property is a person.
Sounds like a reasonable plan of action.Of course a business owner has the right to ban firearms from private property just as certainly as we have the right to ban "Schemes Of My Father" from our private homes.Make them feel it in the bottom line.
What if, someone with a valid CHL, gets hurt or killed by a criminal on said premises and his/her dependent(s) sues the owner of said premises, arguing that the victim could have survived if he/she had been allowed to carry and use the defensive means(guns) legally allowed by local and state authorities?
Can’t the survivor(s) sue the hell out of the owner of the property?
If not, why not? Wasn’t the victim allowed to defend himself as guaranteed by the authorities of the state he resides in?
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