Posted on 08/20/2008 1:52:36 PM PDT by baba123
Our son is an 8th grade student at a Charter School. He came home with a list of movies they would be watching in class. As we have not seen any of these movies we would like opinions as to how appropriate and accurate these movies are. We do not let our kids watch R rated movies but would like to know if they are historically accurate. The movies are The Patriot, We Were Soldiers, Glory, Uprising and Saving Private Ryan. We value your opinions. Thank you
The combat soldiers I know say Saving Private Ryan is the most realistic combat movie they have seen. It is hard hitting though, not kids stuff.
As I understand it the Patriot isn’t that accurate. I think Saving Private Ryan is regarded as being pretty realistic.
I think they are all R and I have to say that Saving Private Ryan and We Were Soldiers are definitely not for the faint of heart.
My Dad served two tours in VN and was in Ia Drang shortly after the events at LZXray. He had some minor and major quibbles with WWS, but said the beach landing in SPR was the most realistic combat cinema he had ever seen.
Some of those have some things that are historically accurate but taken as a whole, watching a movie is no way to learn about history.
Watching a movie is a babysitting method schools have taken up.
"Glory" and IIRC "We Were Soldiers" I believe are pretty accurate historically.
I'd suggest if you let him watch them, you watch with him.
We Were Soldiers is a fine movie but too much realism for a 8th grade class.
I’ve never seen Uprising, but the rest are excellent films.
I know that Private Ryan and We Were Soldiers has some pretty strong language in addition to some very realistic violence, but all of those movies are excellent war movies.
We were soldiers is pretty rough, but my Vietnam Vet father said it was almost too realistic. Like he couldn’t watch that movie ever again.
The Patriot was a good movie for the feel of the Americans in that time, don’t know how accurate as far as battles and such.
“We were Soldiers”, “The Patriot” and “Saving Private Ryan” are very gory. In my opinion, none of these movies portray actual historic events. They could be used for discussion of historic events and the realities of war.
I have read that veterans who landed at Normandy on D-Day said those scenes from “Saving Private Ryan” were the most realistic they had ever seen in a movie.
They are movies, so I wouldn’t think any one of them are “accurate”. Personally, I’d be a bit concerned if my kids were being taught history by means of mainstream cinema. I’d also be interested in hearing how the teacher plans to use the material in the course. I can see it as valid to start a discussion on the value of historical sources, but as something to actually represent historical events, I don’t think so.
Saving Private Ryan for realism. 8th grade, 13 years old, they’re not children anymore, they are youths, so go for it.
I’m actually surprised about the inclusion of “We Were Soldiers”. It’s probably the most pro-American Vietnam War film ever made by Hollywood.
That being said, I think The Patriot does a pretty decent job of portraying just how brutal the Revolutionary War was in the south. Mel Gibson, the hero, does a fairly good job of fictional portrayal of Francis Marion, the historical inspiration for the movie, even if the facts are not all right.
Five feature-length films? That adds up to lots of screen time plus I would guess they will also see some documentaries?? I hope the teacher plans to have them read some too and endure some lectures. Of course it is easy just to chat about the subject for ten minutes and then put in a film that will take up most of the next three or four class sessions.
As both a parent and an educator, I would highly encourage parents to watch the very same things that are viewed at school at home... and discuss them. As an educator, these movies might be better suited for use at the high school level, but it would depend on what the objectives of the teacher are.
Contact the teacher and ask about the objectives. ;-)
“Some of those have some things that are historically accurate but taken as a whole, watching a movie is no way to learn about history.
Watching a movie is a babysitting method schools have taken up.”
When overused that is true but a couple well chosen films over the course of a year can do much to deepen a students understanding of any event. A well done movie can supplement reading and give a student a deeper understanding of what people in the past went through. Saving Private Ryan is an example. It shows what our soldiers went through in a way no book could.
Small clips can work well too. For instance, reading about the Civil Rights Movement is one thing but seeing video of what happened on the Edmund Pettis bridge is another.
It's about war though and war is brutal. Great characters and great angle to the war. I would recommend.
Caveat, have someone edit out profanity first.
He’s in a charter school, normal public school rules don’t apply apparently.
From what I understand the main historical inaccuracy with Glory is the Mass 54th did not have escaped slaves in the regiment. It was composed of free blacks from all over the Union. Frederick Douglas and the abolotionists sponsors of the regiment knew the world would be watching how it performed so they made sure they had the best men the negro community had to offer. Supposedly the educational level of the unit was higher than other Union regiments.
I teach HS history. First question I would ask is what context are the movies being shown in? Is the teacher just popping them in and grading in the back? That’s a lot of lost class-time.
I would only show the opening of Saving Private Ryan (D-Day Landings) which is about 25 min. The rest of the move (another 2 1/2 hours) is not necessary.
Patriot is a joke, don’t bother.
Glory is a good one, I would show that in its entirety.
I never saw Uprising, and only vaguely remember We Were Soldiers.
Both “The Patriot” and “Saving Private Ryan” have some of the most gratuitous violence I have ever seen in films.
And in fact, I walked out of “Saving Private Ryan” when my hubby was watching the DVD. I said, “Tell me how -——, gets killed.” (no spoilers from me) He was shocked that I figured out the ending. To me, it was obvious from the first piece of celuloid.
I couldn’t take the violence.
The Patriot [with Mel Gibson, about the Swamp Fox Francis Marion] seems to give Marion credit for the US Revolution Battle of Cowpens, in which Marion did not lead the US forces, and maybe was not present at. It was much praised by people tending to the political right when it came out, about eight years ago.
Glory [about an all-black regiment in the Civil War led by a white Massachusetts man] includes fictional characters.
Saving Private Ryan involves D-Day but is entirely fictional.
None of above would I consider particularly faithful to history except in the most general sense. The rest I don’t know. What bothers me is that your kid is watching a bunch of movies in the 8th grade. He should be reading books.
Saving Private Ryan and We Were Soldiers are both excellent, but too much for 8th graders. Extremely violent. I read where some combat vets suffered PTSD after watching the first scene from SPR. I don’t know if I would let my 8th grader see it.
The Patriot, althugh a fine film, is not that historically accurate and tends to paint the Brits as bloothirsty patriot murderers.
Saving Private Ryan is pretty intense ... lots of realistic deaths.
When We Were Soldiers is one of the most brutally violent movies ever released.
The Patriot - very plodding ... 2 hours 45 min ... some heavy violence (Mel Gibson’s son is brutally murdered) .....
Not sure any of them would be up to the sophistication of an 8th. grader.
SHOW THEM Gettysburgh. A factual and most realistic film of any battle I have ever seen. Its long I know but I tell you it really hits home how they sent brother against brother in that slaughter.
Glory is an excellent choice for the class.
Didn’t like the Patriot as he only became “patriotic” in revenge for the death of his son.
Private Ryan and Glory are excellent films, although quite graphic and realistic. We were soldiers is probably way too graphic in gore and language for an 8th grader, although Sam Elliott’s role as the Sgt. Major was probably his best. My 12 year old son’s favorites are Gettysburg and God’s and Generals, both of which are incredible and highly accurate. Although realistic, they are OK for younger viewers.
I would hope the films are part of a whole curriculum that actually includes books too.
Excellent movie.
Glory, while not completely accurate is a wonderful movie with good acting and a compelling story.
Why are they watching movies in school???
I would agree with you that short clips would work better than whole movies. I think they can be great to spark discussion.
Didn’t “The Patriot” piss off a lot of liberals when it came out?
My uncle had to get up and leave SPR. He said that it was almost exactly as it was...except there wasnt enough boys crying for Momma while they lay wounded.
ping
The Patriot is an amalgam of historical information and I think it is OK for 8th graders.
PATRIOT was attacked because it showed a father handing guns to his young children so they could shoot at their fellow man....or so Liberals viewed it.
I’m guessing because there is no historical film of most of the actual events being taught about
Have they ever heard of history books? There are thousands of good ones. They can actually read while they are learning history.
Why are they watching movies in history?
The Patriot is full of historical inaccuracies.
The real Benjamin Martin, Francis Marion, had barbaric attitudes towards blacks by today’s standards.
Tavington, in real history Banaster Tarleton, and his Tory Legion wore all green uniforms. In the movie they wear red coats.
Cornwallis was not at the Battle of Cowpens. The British forces were lead by Tarleton. Also, Nathaniel Greene was not at that battle. The Rev forces were led by Daniel Morgan.
Agree 100%. The opening D-Day sequence is amazing. The rest of the film is very average.
Saving Private Ryan is not historically accurate after the first 20 minutes or so. Once the beach head is secure on Omaha the movie plot breaks from history and goes to story.
Far as violence goes I'd probably have a hard time showing Saving Private Ryan to even a lot of adults. It's that brutal, and that realistic. My late Grandfather said the only thing missing was the smell...if they can handle Ryan's violence though they should be able to handle any of the others.
You may consider The Longest Day instead of Saving Private Ryan. It's more historically accurate I think, the violence is still there of course, but it's 50's, 60's violence which is a lot tamer than even our current PG standards.
The Patriot also not historically accurate, but close enough. There is a few speeches that are worth noting, even if they are based on several real speeches.
Not sure on the accuracy of Glory, but it ranks on my "must see war movies" list, dealing with the Black infantry in the Civil War. Violence can be bloody at times, but since the movie was made in the 80's or early 90's again I think our current PG standards are worse in some cases.
We Were Soldiers - not bad - a little too John Waynish but not bad, the ending was not realsitic to what actually occurred
Saving Private Ryan - Very realistic portrayal of the effects of fire and the chaos of battle. The sobering fact though is as realistic as they tried to make it, the actuality of Omaha beach was even worse. That and Normandy in the movie was a surprisingly empty place for one squad of men to wander around in. But the uniforms equipment were excellent and historically accurate as they could make them. The chaos of combat were about as close as I've seen to the real thing on film.
I know this does not answer the question you asked, but the total run time of those movies will require about three full weeks of class to watch
Personally, I would question the overall quality of instruction much more than the content of the movies. If they feel they can just throw away three weeks of class time watching movies, it sounds, to me, like a dreadful school.
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