Posted on 01/02/2020 2:22:54 PM PST by fightin kentuckian
TN holds that form for 1 year.
“TN holds that form for 1 year.” It’s my understanding that 4473 must be kept on file for 20 years according to Fed law. How do they get around that?
I will be filling out a 4473 next week when my gift to myself (LOL) arrives. It should arrive next week, hopefully.
I’d bet good money that 4473 is saved on a computer someplace regardless of the law.
There are no wrongs the guberment can do. Just ask them.
Not in Oregon. Sale must go through an FFL. Poorly researched.
“Id bet good money that 4473 is saved on a computer someplace regardless of the law.
There are no wrongs the guberment can do. Just ask them.”
I agree 100% and that’s why I also support the shake up and restructuring of all 17 federal intelligence agencies.
About a decade back I sold a double handful of class III guns. Sten, FN-FAL, Uzi, MAC, M16, more. Expensive to shoot, theyd appreciated about 3 times what I paid for them and we needed windows, siding, and I had other hobbies. When the SHTF MGs will be out there for the taking...
Anyway, Maryland has this tax on MGs, $10 a year for reregistration.
I was at the Jessup (now closed) MD state barracks getting prints for another suppressor so I went upstairs to make sure my guns/name were taken out of their registry.
A cop sat at a computer, looked me up and said yes, no 3AM door crashing anytime soon (my joke, he laughed), BUT (and this is the point of this note) he said, a lot of other guns are in here. really? which ones, and he proceeded to read a list of 39 pistols and carbines Id bought at local gun stores AND a few from California, and Hawaii. I thanked him and havent bought a gun since.
Not on a 4473 anyway, I have a C&R license and there are guns aplenty from 50 years ago.
NOT paranoia. States ARE sharing 4473 data. I know of at least three local gun stores the local jack-booted ATF thugs (thank you John Dingell for that appropriate appellation) have come in with copiers and burned off copies of 4473s all day long.
Ask around, its not just in Maryland. Ive heard rumors (and a couple of first-hand stories) about INTERPOL getting this data, and hunters going to Canada being asked which gun theyre bringing into the country as the customs guy reads from a list of guns registered here in Maryland.
Now Ralph Blackface Northam is asking the legislature to cough up 4.8 million a year for an 18-member SWATZI team to confiscate firearms from refusenicks.
This wont end well.
“...or sell it privately, without the permission of the government.
Not in Oregon. Sale must go through an FFL. Poorly researched.”
Thanks for your positive support but I wanted to put out something that was easy to understand without getting slogged down in detail about all 50 states laws. I hope you’ll find it in your heart to forgive me. xoxox
While i have purchased several new firearms, my favorites are purchased from private individuals, hence, no background checks, no paper trails. i do not trust any gubmint rules regulations, promises or indivduals representative thereof.
That’s what “closing the gun-show loophole” means, in practical terms. I’m sure the law is the same in many States.
“While i have purchased several new firearms, my favorites are purchased from private individuals, hence, no background checks, no paper trails. i do not trust any gubmint rules regulations, promises or indivduals representative thereof.”
I know what you mean. A buddy recently helped me out. He worked his ass off for me and wasn’t expecting anything in return. He’d mentioned before how much he liked one of the firearms in my collection so I gave it to him.
What you say is mostly true, but it still doesn’t make sense.........a 4473 is for a background check of the buyer, not the gun. So tell me again the logic of needing gun info on a background check.
“What you say is mostly true, but it still doesnt make sense.........a 4473 is for a background check of the buyer, not the gun. So tell me again the logic of needing gun info on a background check.”
There are fields on Section B, page three, of the 4473 for make and model and caliber of the gun being purchased. I’m not sure if those fields are required or not. I’m assuming that since those fields appear they are usually filled out by the vendor.
ATF states that 4473 are kept NLT 20 yrs and when the business terminates it license or closes it doors, the bound book of firearm transfers goes to the ATF.
The government eventually has a record of all transfers by FFL licensees.
Not a requirement in most states on in state sales. Too tough to call out every shithole in the country.
The 4473 is not for background checks, the form predated the background check system. Information on the form is used for the background check, but that's not the purpose of the form. The form establishes a chain of custody for a particular firearm by it's serial number. The serial number is recorded by the manufacturer when it's sold to the wholesaler, the wholesaler when it's sold to the dealer, and the dealer when it's sold to an individual.
As stated above, the 4473 has to be kept for a minimum of twenty years by the FFL holder or when he goes out of business, then it has to be sent to the ATF for filing.
Here's the reason it's a system of registration: ANY time the BATFE approaches the FFL holder and requests access to his form 4473's he is required to give them access. That essentially means that all the information on who bought a particular firearm is available to the government. If a firearm is found at a crime scene the ATF goes to the manufacturer with the serial number, they name the wholesaler it was sold to who then names the dealer it was sold to and an agent shows up at his doorstep demanding to see the form 4473 to see who bought it. The dealer legally can't refuse to turn over the form.
That's a registration scheme. Sure, it's more cumbersome than having all that information in a computer database at the fingertips of the ATF, but other than an agent physically having to go to the gun dealer and demand the form 4473 it's no different, the information is still available on demand to the government. Now where that breaks down is as of right now sales between individuals aren't required to be reported to the government so the "registration" ends with the individual that first bought it from the FFL dealer. That's why the leftists are so hell bent on ending the "gun show loophole" which isn't about gun shows and isn't a loophole, what they really want to do is end sales between private individuals without going through a dealer so it can be catalogued thus effectively being registered.
They’re not supposed to be recording your phone calls either but they are.
The 4473 is registration...at least a first step. The ATF is completely free to copy 4473s at any time. You can be certain a registry of sorts is compiled using them + those turned in when FFLs cease business. You can also be certain NICS records are used to compile a registry even though its illegal.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.