Whew, that was close, but now I can hide from the law in Ukraine and carry on.
Posted on 11/21/2017 10:35:21 AM PST by GoldenState_Rose
For the last several years, Russian security services have driven Islamist radicals and others out of the North Caucasus and other regions of the Russian Federation under paid of jail or death to fight for ISIS in Syria, Israeli expert Avraam Shmulyevich says.
Now that the last redoubts of the Islamic State in that country have fallen, these same services, exploiting Chechens in Syria, have begun to extract these same people back to Russia, an action that strongly suggests, the president of the Israeli Eastern Partnership Institute says, that Moscow plans to make use of them elsewhere – and may even have them under its control.
One place where this is especially likely, Shmulyevich continues, is in Crimea where the ISIS cadres may stage terrorist actions that Moscow can the blame on the Crimean Tatars and thus gain understanding if not support for its repressive moves against that minority in the Russian-occupied Ukrainian peninsula.
Shmulyevich made these and other points in the course of an interview with US-based Russian journalist Kseniya Kirillova , although he was careful to say that he did not have definitive proof for these possibilities but that Moscow’s recent actions do not allow much room for any alternative conclusion (ru.krymr.com/a/28858018.html).
In the past, as in the run-up to the Sochi Olympiad in 2014, the Russian authorities have not even tried to conceal their role in pushing North Caucasians to leave and fight for ISIS, an effort the Russian media have suggested reduces the likelihood of terrorist actions within the borders of the Russian Federation.
Shmulyevich has investigated the ways in which some Islamists from Russia have gone to Syria in hopes of acquiring military skills that they could employ back at home, but those whom Moscow is now helping to extract are unlikely to take up arms against Moscow. Instead, it is far more likely that they will use their “skills” to promote Moscow’s policies.
“There are as yet insufficient data on the character of relations between Russia and ISIS,” the Israeli expert says. They might be limited only to a cooperative one based on common goals in particular places or they might be those of “a creature of Moscow,” especially if the Russian government follows Soviet precedents.
The most likely places such people could be deployed would be in the North Caucasus and in Crimea, locations where Moscow would be delighted to organize violent actions that could be blamed on Muslims of another stripe entirely. The only real limiting factor, Shmulyevich says, is that Putin doesn’t want to allow any terrorist action at all.
The reason is simple: the Kremlin leader portrays himself as the victor over terrorism in Russia and would not like to see that questioned as the election approaches. But at the same time, Putin’s behavior in the past shows that he is more than prepared to use those he controls to place blame on those who are his targets, be it Chechens in 1999 or Crimean Tatars now.
“Actually Mariner, you are likely more pro-Putin than most Russians of today are”
Just like ALL Ukrainian Partisans and NeoConservatives, you are lying. You conflate indifference to Russia’s invasion of parts of Ukraine, with support for Putin.
And the indifference is completely warranted given the corruption of official Ukraine. AND, not least, the fact that the US has absolutely no interests in Ukraine. None. Not even little, minor ones.
And it likely enrages you, a Partisan Ukrainian, that the vast majority of people in the US are totally OK with whatever Russia wants to do with their Little Rus.
And those who know history, when they think of Ukraine at all, think they should be reunited with those who built the whole friggin’ country...from the sea wall in Odessa to the wide highways of Kiev.
But I’m sure, you’ll retort again with the Putin shaming. Because that’s all you’ve got.
Whew, that was close, but now I can hide from the law in Ukraine and carry on.
“You like Trusting Putin”
She’s been instructed and trained to associate any disagreement with being pro-Putin.
Part of my paternal ancestry is from Ethnic Russians in modern day Odessa. So I identify with both Russia and Ukraine. I have lived in Russia, not Ukraine. But I know enough about the dynamics of the Christians in both to know that the *good* people of Ukraine (excluding the corrupt government and excluding the neo-Nazi nationalists) — they want an identity bridging East and West, greater European integration, and democracy free from Russia’s neo Soviet and neo Imperial grip.
As of this weekend, dear Mariner, Ukraine has made Western Christmas, December 25th, an official holiday.
Now they get to celebrate both 12/25 and Orthodox Christmas on 1/7. Bridging the two Christianities.
In the meantime, as I’ve said in another thread: secular New Year’s festivities proceed from Lenin’s mausoleum in Red Square, where is body still lies in full display to remind us of the lies he lived for, and for which his still refuses to fully part with it.
(Secular New Year was Soviet Union’s replacement holiday for Christmas, which was banned. Now Russians celebrate both but nationalist/Soviet-era holidays retain their prominence. Western Christmas is not a holiday.)
“they want an identity bridging East and West, greater European integration, and democracy free from Russia’s neo Soviet and neo Imperial grip”
Ukraine needs to negotiate that with the Russians. They are the only other state in the world with an interest there.
Good sense says that would have been the first step...rather than overturning an internationally recognized election and government.
** To post this unsubstantiated garbage **
This is the most outrageous pile of crap I recall seeing on FR. If anyone is cozying up to ISIS, it would be those who have worked to destabilize Syria for six years. Russia is not on that list.
Well where the Euromaidan revolution may have been weak or morally flawed, Russia ended up making up the difference when it took over Crimea and solidified Ukraine’s resolve (including that of many undecideds) to fully exit Russia’s sphere of influence. So the annexation ended up being a long-term blessing in disguise.
God has also brought much healing and spiritual revival in churches amidst the turmoil, and Ukraine’s Christians are more alert and alive than ever. And as I said, they get to have two Christmases now :). Though there is a LOT left to overcome. And their economy and political situation both remain very weak.
As for Russia: there are stirrings among Russian people who want reconciliation with their neighbor, but Putin would lose face if he entertained that or such “negotiations” right now.
Please copy and paste the post where I express trust in Putin.
Also please copy and paste the post where I denigrate Abraham Lincoln.
You are the one failing to Verify, this is from your post #14:
I don’t think this article vindicates the U.S. it is speculating on what Russia’s current policy and current geopolitical interests may be with regard to ISIS fighters from Russia.
You admit posting pure speculation by Globalist shills.
Palin specified that Putin's action MAY have been "good" indicating she would judge on verifiable facts rather than speculation, even honest speculation, that is not what we have here.
They took advantage of the instability we caused and the article is speculating on how they are continuing to use the situation to further their interests. It’s not even making a moral judgment on the matter .
The article is relevant because observers of Russia’s stake in Syria overlook the complexities posed by Islamic republics (Chechnya, Dagestan, Tatarstan et al.) *within* Russia.
” but Putin would lose face if he entertained that or such “negotiations” right now.”
No he wouldn’t.
I believe the Russian State has three interests:
1. The territory east of the Dnieper river. Russia developed it and it’s mostly Russian.
2. Crimea. There’s several hundred thousand Russians buried there from their multiple defenses of Sevastopol.
3. No NATO forces East of Poland.
I have no doubt Russia would sign that treaty and keep it. I also have no doubt that Russia would allow free migrations to/from either side of the new border.
And they’d probably even cede any/all claims to Odessa, the city that Katherine built.
But it’s folly to think Russia will walk from clear, longstanding interests in Ukraine. That thinking will lead to heartbreak.
That would be like the US allowing Texas to reunite with Mexico.
The main crisis posed by Ukraine is not territorial in nature. The crisis is what Ukraine’s destiny forebodes about Russia’s OWN self-determination as a nation.
Putin is not worried about what goes on outside Russia’s borders so much as what is happening *inside his own.* He and his regime - they need Syria, need Crimea, to distract from the state of “suppressed revolution” and suppressed disintegration the Russian Federation has been in for quite some time.
As I write this, there is conflict in Tatarstan over the Russian language and the proposed ban of Tatar to be taught or used in schools smack in the middle of their school year. Leading literally to playground conflicts between Russian and Tatar kids over the matter- symbolic of what Putin and the general population fear for the nation and all its ethnic hot spot tension points as a whole.
With no binding ideology, no cohesive ethnic identity due to the demographic crisis of ethnic Russians (who are out birthed by their Islamic counterparts.) The Russian “Federation” is quite fragile.
Not to mention, the oligarchs governing Russia and loyal to Putin refuse to diversify and decentralize the oil economy.
And that’s just what is brewing within Russia’s current borders. But think of the surrounding former Soviet states - like Kazakhstan, which is seeking to transfer to the Latin alphabet.
East of Poland you say. Think of Estonia, where I was, on their “independence” day no less. Estonians cheering NATO troops waving American flags. A bit of a mental warp for I had only just been caught up in the trance of Victory Day festivities back in Russia. —> Nationalist Russians are NOT happy about the Baltic states (including the ethnic Russians inside them) solidifying their allegiance to Europe.
With regard to Putin losing face: I don’t think you realize how Crimea was framed to the Russians...and what a big deal any “capitulation” to a Euro-ward Ukraine would be. Russians were promised a return to former greatness as a world power. (So as to distract from economic/social weakness at home.)
Re: border freedom between Ukraine and Russia. Not under Putin. Maybe the next Russian regime...or when Russia becomes democratic and Putin’s system comes crumbling down once for all. (How that happens remains to be seen. Up to the Russians. And the will of God.)
And yes when the happens, of course Ukraine and Russia can be reconciled, but as equal partners. And the “equal partner” thing still doesn’t sit well with Russians who fear complete divorce from their imperial and Soviet legacies.
As I said, Lenin’s body still in full display in Red Square. Stalin’s image has been rehabilitated. And Putin is present at nearly every new installment of a tsar statue throughout the country. It’s in the tension of these “Empire” narratives Russia seeks to build their national idea upon — but the problem is the future gets lost in the past. Because the world is not returning the favor in affirming their goals. Ukraine for starters.
Gee, y'think? Thanks GoldenState_Rose.
I agree with everything you say about the Soviet Union, but I guess the difference is that I’m able to DISTINGUISH between modern-day Russia and the Soviet Union, while others keep bringing up a country and an ideology that no longer exists there.
As far as exploiting and dividing the West, we don’t need their help, we have more than enough Democrats, RINOs, and Globalists to do that on their own.
But the USSR was more than just about Marxist ideology. The power-mechanism of tyranny and empire at the expense of the people as embodied by Stalin (who socialists disown) is very much alive and well under Putin. And far less subtle than ever. But not to Gulag levels no. I will give you that. Kleptocracy. Oligarchy. State-owned media propaganda machine.
This is modern Russia. And no America, corrupted though it is, is nowhere near as bad.
Thanks for sounding reasonable...I don’t look at them as angels, no matter how much they pay me, comrade (whoops, that slipped).
But I do look at them as a very powerful country with their own interests to defend, and one of them is Syria, an ally of theirs for decades - and unless us in way too many cases, they don’t throw their friends under the bus.
“They don’t throw their friends under the bus.”
BobL, Ukraine is their brother nation. With bonds much stronger than we have or can have with any of our allies.
Go to Ukraine today and ask people how they feel about Russia...
It won’t be pretty.
This article smells like Ukrainian propaganda a lot.
It is hard to argue that the Russian authorities did little to stop terrorists from the Stans from travelling to Syria but the reasons are undestandable.
There wasn’t a more peaceful period in both Russia and Central Asia in modern history as a result.
Also Russia and allies worked hard to make most of these gentlemen stay in Syria forever in pieces.
Please see post #31.
I’ve seen it. Tatarstan was secular and docile since 1552 when Ivan the Terrible tamed them as part of efforts to nill the remnants of the Golden Horde. There were zero troubles right until late 1980s (that four and a half centuries!) when Saudis and Western NGOs decided to help Tatars rediscover their Islamic roots. There were some ugly things but it was arrested by Yeltsin government by mid-1990s. Tatars are generally pragmatic folks. They’ve seen that Yeltsin did to Chechnya, didn’t want any part of it and booted Saudis and CIA-stooges out.
As for Crimea the most important thing is what does Crimeans want. Every objective poll since 1992 says the vast majority doesn’t identify with Ukraine at all.
Thanks, very good info.
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