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How Can the Gospel Be Good News to Gays?
The Gospel Coalition ^ | 1-10-13 | Sam Allberry

Posted on 01/11/2013 11:03:06 AM PST by ReformationFan

We were having lunch together, and I was praying like mad. My friend had been in a committed same-sex relationship for about 15 years. He was interested in Jesus; attracted to his teaching and message. But he wanted to know how becoming a Christian would affect his gay lifestyle.

I had explained, as carefully and graciously as I could, that Jesus upheld and expanded the wider biblical stance on sexuality, that the only context for sexual activity is heterosexual marriage. Following Jesus would mean seeking to live under his word, in this area as in any other.

He had been quiet for a moment, and then looked me in the eye and asked the billion-dollar question: 'What could possibly be worth giving up my partner for?'

I held his gaze for a moment while my brain raced for the answer. There was eternity, of course. There was heaven and hell. But I was conscious that these realities would seem other-worldly and intangible to him. In any case, surely following Jesus is worth it even for this life. He was asking about life here-and-now, so I prayed for God to lead me to a here-and-now Bible verse. I wanted my friend to know that following Jesus really is worth it---worth it in the life to come, but also worth it in this life now, no less so for those who have homosexual feelings. Yes, there would be a host of hardships and difficulties: unfulfilled longings, the distress of unwanted temptation, and the struggles of long-term singleness.

But I wanted him to know that following Jesus is more than worth it, even with all it entails for gay people. And I also wanted to tell him that I had come to know this not just from studying the Bible and listening to others, but from my own experience.

More Grace, Not Less

Homosexuality is an issue I have grappled with my entire Christian life. It took a long time to admit to myself, longer to admit to others, and even longer to see something of God's good purposes through it all. There have been all sorts of ups and downs. But this battle is not devoid of blessings, as Paul discovered with his own unyielding thorn in the flesh. Struggling with sexuality has been an opportunity to experience more of God's grace, rather than less.

Only in recent months have I felt compelled to be more open on this issue. For many years I had no intention of being public about it. I am conscious that raising it here may lead to any number of responses---some welcome, some perhaps less so. But over the last couple of years I have felt increasingly concerned that, when it comes to our gay friends and family members, many of us Bible-believing Christians are losing confidence in the gospel. We are not always convinced it really is good news for gay people. We are not always sure we can really expect them to live by what the Bible says.

As my mind raced that lunchtime God gave me a verse to share with my friend. It demonstrates precisely why following Jesus is worth it, in this lifetime, and even when we have to give up things we could never imagine living without:

Peter said to Jesus, "We have left everything to follow you!"

"I tell you the truth," Jesus replied, "no-one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much as in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields---and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life." (Mark 10:28-30)

Following Jesus involves leaving things behind and giving things up. For gay people, it involves leaving behind a gay lifestyle.

God's Clear Word

The Bible is consistent in prohibiting homosexual practice. Jesus himself condemns "sexual immorality" (Mark 7:21, for example). Though Jesus does not directly mention homosexual activity, he does include it. The Greek word we translate as "sexual immorality" (porneia, from which we get the word pornography) is a catch-all term for any sexual activity outside heterosexual marriage.

Paul is more specific, directly referring to homosexual practice in three passages. In Romans 1:24-27 both homosexual and also lesbian activity are given as examples of the "unnatural" behavior that results from turning away from God. In 1 Cor. 6:9-10 "homosexual offenders" are listed among those whose behavior will result in their exclusion from God's kingdom. The word Paul uses literally translates as "men who lie with men" and comes again in 1 Timothy 1:10 (where the NIV 1984 unhelpfully translates it "perverts").

It is simply not possible to argue for gay relationships from the Bible. Attempts by some church leaders to do so inevitably involve twisting some texts and ignoring others. God's Word is, in fact, clear. The Bible consistently prohibits any sexual activity outside of marriage.

As someone who experiences homosexual feelings this is not always an easy word to hear. It has sometimes been very painful to come to terms with what the Bible says. There have been times of acute temptation and longing---times when I have been "in love." And yet Scripture shows that these longings distort what God has created me for.

Extraordinary Returns

However much we have to leave behind we are never left out of pocket. Whatever we give up Jesus replaces, in godly kind and greater measure. No one who leaves will fail to receive, and the returns are extraordinary---a hundredfold. What we give up for Jesus does not compare to what he gives back. If the costs are great, the rewards are even greater, even in this life. For me these include a wonderful depth of friendship God has given me with many brothers and sisters; the opportunities of singleness; the privilege of a wide-ranging ministry; and the community of a wonderful church family. But greater than any of these things is the opportunity that any complex and difficult situation presents us with: to learn the all-sufficiency of Christ---learning that fullness of life and joy is in him and his service, and nowhere else.

There is a huge amount to say on this issue, but the main point is this: the moment you think following Jesus will be a poor deal for someone, you call Jesus a liar. Discipleship is not always easy. Leaving anything cherished behind is profoundly hard. But Jesus is always worth it.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: bible; christianity; gospel; homosexualagenda; porneia; redemption; samallberry; sin
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Definitely needed to be heard, especially after the recent Giglio incident.
1 posted on 01/11/2013 11:03:16 AM PST by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan

I once knew an arsonist who had the same problem.


2 posted on 01/11/2013 11:04:28 AM PST by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham

and a serial killer on death row. It meant having to give up the thing they really enjoyed.


3 posted on 01/11/2013 11:10:09 AM PST by BipolarBob (Happy Hunger Games! May the odds be ever in your favor.)
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To: ReformationFan

The Bible consistently prohibits any sexual activity outside of marriage.


This is one reason the homosexual lobby is so hell-bent on getting homosexual marriage legitimized.

Homosexuality is one of the few sins that people are seriously arguing is “ok” and should be accepted as normal. After all, we don’t have “adulterer’s pride” parades or “liars” parades.

My take is that many are called but few are chosen. Fact is, not everyone is going to accept his free gift. And I approach the whole thing from an Ecclesiastes perspective (without the grace of Christ’s blood, man’s lot is to eat and drink and enjoy the fruits of his labor and then die, as do other animals). And I see the death of a non-believer as described here:

http://www.jeremyandchristine.com/articles/eternal.php

Our job is to present the gospel - with all of its ramifications. Their job is to accept or reject it.


4 posted on 01/11/2013 11:11:26 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: ReformationFan
I appreciate the honesty in this essay. What I might add is that it is crucially important to look carefully at the 4 Last Things: Death, Judgement, Hell, Heaven. By studying what Christ has told us about these 4 things, we get a clear
picture of what our purpose here is, which is applicable
to one with homosexual inclinations as it is to one with
fornicating/adulterous inclinations. When we see what hell truly
is, we will live so as to avoid it. We will long for a death that
finds us united to Christ, so that His judgement will be one wherein
He recognizes us as one of His own. And when we contemplate eternity
and heaven, it will make our tribulations here mere bumps on the road.
5 posted on 01/11/2013 11:19:34 AM PST by jobim (.)
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To: ReformationFan
While I believe that a full realization of the consequences of sin is necessary for one to remain true the the Gospel of Christ during the promised difficult times awaiting the repentant Christian, often a “Turn-or-Burn” response to the seeker can be detrimental to their initial inquiries. The scripture presented and the manner in which it was offered seems to be loving and on target. I would caution however that using the “Hundred-fold return” phrase is easily (and often) misapplied by Faux-Christian hucksters seeking to monetarily create a “Pay-to-Play” or “Give-to-Receive” version of the Gospel.
6 posted on 01/11/2013 11:20:29 AM PST by TexGuy (If it has the slimmest of chances of being considered sarcasm ... IT IS!)
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To: ReformationFan

Interesting conundrum for the Christian-centered community of Freepers who happen to be in same-sex relationships and who are otherwise conservative in their political views. Do we drive them away being fellow patriot gun owner/operators, conservative voters; and fellow Texans, or do we ignore and do no harm? There are many of us that worship Jesus Christ and yet ignore the rest of y’all that seem to want to send our gay s to the gas chamber. Get over it. The world isn’t as tidy as you had hoped. Concentrate on defeating the real enemies of freedom. BHO for starters.


7 posted on 01/11/2013 11:23:37 AM PST by CARTOUCHE (Miss me yet?)
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To: ReformationFan

Yes. It’s not someone’s fault if they have lesbian or homosexual inclinations. But putting them into practice is always sinful, and then it becomes their choice and their fault.

Sometimes God gives us great difficulties, of one kind or another, but with His grace we are always given the chance to overcome them or turn them to our greater good, and thus to grow stronger. If this preacher can use his own weakness of homosexual inclinations as he does here, then they are in practice transformed by grace from a flaw into a kind of gift—making him, as here, a more convincing apostle to the LGBT community. And also, a reminder of the distinction of the vast difference between homosexual inclinations and homosexual practices.


8 posted on 01/11/2013 11:25:58 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: ReformationFan
The Bible is consistent in prohibiting homosexual practice. Jesus himself condemns "sexual immorality" (Mark 7:21, for example). Though Jesus does not directly mention homosexual activity, he does include it. The Greek word we translate as "sexual immorality" (porneia, from which we get the word pornography) is a catch-all term for any sexual activity outside heterosexual marriage.

Sam Allberry has a problem accepting
Yah'shua as the WORD of YHvH.

Yah'shua is all of the WORD of YHvH.

He is Not just the "new" Testament
but is also the Tanach.

The author seems to have a superficial view of the Holy WORD of G-d.

Throughout the Holy WORD of G-d, marriage is a metaphor
for the relationship of YHvH and his "called" people.
In the Tanach, YHvH is the Bridegroom and Israel is His Wife.
Later "called" gentiles are referred to a Bride.

A clear reading of Romans 1 in context beginning at
verse 16 shows that those who should know YHvH and his creation
but reject Him are given over to a perverse relationship in direct
opposition to the metaphor of marriage.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
9 posted on 01/11/2013 11:27:11 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: ReformationFan

All I need to know about how Jesus would deal with homosexuals is in John 8:11.


10 posted on 01/11/2013 11:30:32 AM PST by henkster ("The people who count the votes decide everything." -Joseph Stalin)
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To: ReformationFan

There are many answers to the question of why a man might want to give up his gay partner.

Being able to live life without a sore bottom all the time might be one of them.


11 posted on 01/11/2013 11:35:17 AM PST by lurk
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To: ReformationFan

I explain to gays that its the same for heterosexuals who are addicted to porn or have a wondering eye. Even though they might be married, if they lusted after another person in their mind, they’ve sinned.


12 posted on 01/11/2013 11:36:10 AM PST by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Cicero

See comment 10. Sorry I did not copy you in the original.


13 posted on 01/11/2013 11:36:34 AM PST by henkster ("The people who count the votes decide everything." -Joseph Stalin)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

Good Shabbos, FRiend.


14 posted on 01/11/2013 11:38:48 AM PST by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: henkster

Agreed...but its the last 3 words that cause such consternation....


15 posted on 01/11/2013 11:40:05 AM PST by Adder (No, Mr. Franklin, we could NOT keep it.)
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To: ReformationFan

The same way it can be good news to liars, adulterers, thieves, and everyone else; as long as they stop sinning, turn towards Jesus, and repent.


16 posted on 01/11/2013 11:40:18 AM PST by ro_dreaming (G.K. Chesterton, “Christianity has not been tried and found wanting. It’s been found hard and lef)
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To: CARTOUCHE; ReformationFan

No one on this thread has suggested sending anyone to the gas chambers. The conundrum is not between gay and straight Freepers but between gays and the gospel. It is a profound conundrum, hence this discussion. If all you have to contribute is to tell us to shut up there are better uses for your time.


17 posted on 01/11/2013 11:44:06 AM PST by jboot (This isn't your father's America. Stay safe and keep your powder dry.)
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To: JimRed
Good Shabbos, FRiend.

Shabbat Shalom !
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
18 posted on 01/11/2013 11:48:11 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: CARTOUCHE
Interesting conundrum for the Christian-centered community of Freepers who happen to be in same-sex relationships and who are otherwise conservative in their political views.

Huh? Christians, conservatives, and confidently, sexually active homosexuals, all in one package, and we have an entire "community" of those at free republic?

Is it possible to have even one of those?

19 posted on 01/11/2013 11:49:44 AM PST by ansel12 (Cruz said "conservatives trust Sarah Palin that if she says this guy is a conservative, that he is")
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To: ReformationFan

Leaving anything cherished behind is profoundly hard. But Jesus is always worth it.


How come sexual temptation and sin has come to be named a “cherished” lifestyle?

That delusion or deceipt is what will have to be healed for people who have fallen for it. There is tons of medical and social evidence that the gay lifestyle produces terrible consequences - not something worthy of cherishing.

Temptation and sinfulness is woven into everyone’s experience but sane (Christian or not) people don’t relate to it as something “cherished.” That is a terrible lie intended to protect and nuture self destruction.


20 posted on 01/11/2013 11:51:16 AM PST by SaraJohnson
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To: CARTOUCHE

Oh please spare us the moral lecture. No one here at FR is out to get you. But much like the current gun issue the FR credo is live and let live but don’t force your difference with us onto us (ie don’t own a gun but don’t make me give up mine, don’t force me to condone one’s homosexuality).

Tea Partiers are assaulted in the media all the time while all gay is all good at the same time. No one has as much favorable press as homosexuals nowadays much less your ridiculous gas chamber example.


21 posted on 01/11/2013 11:53:22 AM PST by ctpsb (Thanks.)
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To: dragonblustar

As a good friend and pastor whose brother is living in this destructive lifestyle says, “sexual sin is sexual sin. It can be fornication or homosexual activity, it’s still sexual sin.” First time I’d considered it that way, but he’s right. It’s easy to make unnatural relations somehow “worse sin” than natural but non-married relations. It’s also wrong.


22 posted on 01/11/2013 11:54:31 AM PST by jagusafr (the American Trinity (Liberty, In G0D We Trust, E Pluribus Unum))
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To: Adder

The last three words only cause consternation to gays.

There have been a couple of “churches” that tried establishing themselves on a “gay friendly” basis in Indianapolis in the past few years. One of them started an advertising campaign based on “would Jesus discriminate?” They were clearly trying to push an agenda that Jesus would not discriminate against skin color, so of course he would not “discriminate” against sexual orientation, too. To me, it was clearly a case of trying to get you to accept an invalid premise, that homosexuality is not sin, but rather a “lifestyle choice.”

So in addition to the economic benefits of being able to categorize your gay partner as a legally married spouse, there is also a religious component. If you are “married,” you are not an adulterer, and therefore not a sinner. But as has been pointed out by other posters, it is clear from the body of Scripture that there is no “marriage” between persons of the same sex, and sexual relations between such persons is sexual sin.


23 posted on 01/11/2013 11:58:13 AM PST by henkster ("The people who count the votes decide everything." -Joseph Stalin)
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To: SaraJohnson

I respectfully disagree. The conscience may be seared so entirely that it is possible to have cherished sins. Recall the rich young ruler. When he realized that he was being asked to sacrifice his cherished wealth and power he turned his back on Christ. Before the Holy Spirit convicted me I had several cherished sin habits. One of them had the potential to become quite profitable. They still occasionally tempt, but they are no longer cherished. In fact, I feel embarassed for having ever done so. In the hands of the Spirit this embarassment has been a wonderful goad to drive me to better things.


24 posted on 01/11/2013 12:03:03 PM PST by jboot (This isn't your father's America. Stay safe and keep your powder dry.)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012
Sam Allberry has a problem accepting Yah'shua as the WORD of YHvH.

Please justify this statement. It seems arrogant of you to utterly dismiss the answer of "extraordinary returns" (backed by some scripture) to the question presented (which is "what good news is the gospel to a homosexual?").

25 posted on 01/11/2013 12:06:43 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: CARTOUCHE

“Am I my brother’s keeper?”

Said before and not by you.


26 posted on 01/11/2013 12:07:00 PM PST by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind - Steinbeck)
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To: OneWingedShark
U-2012>Sam Allberry has a problem accepting Yah'shua as the WORD of YHvH.

Please justify this statement. It seems arrogant of you to utterly dismiss the answer of "extraordinary returns" (backed by some scripture) to the question presented (which is "what good news is the gospel to a homosexual?").

Please re-read post #9 and attempt
to comprehend ALL the words therein.

Specifically,
if Yah'shua is YHvH and He is the WORD of YHvH
Then ALL of the WORD of YHvH is to be read.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
27 posted on 01/11/2013 12:13:05 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: jagusafr

And all sin comes from something broken inside. The sin is the symptom. We’re all broken inside, all conceived with an orientation to desire what sin seems to offer.

Most homosexuals believe they are so different that nobody could understand their struggle. But the truth is that we are all much more alike than we are different. We’re all hungry.

I think what Jesus offers gays in this life is the same thing he offers overeaters, over-shoppers, those chasing after pleasure, popularity, or purpose, the confused, abused, and trampled, etc. He offers us a chance to be free from ourselves - to know that He will take care of all our needs - physical, spiritual, emotional - so we are free to give ourselves freely to others without worrying about what comes back to us in return. We can love Him with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, because He gives us everything we need in all those areas, so those “hard drives” are free to be used on Him and His purposes.

It’s a huge gift.


28 posted on 01/11/2013 12:24:30 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: ReformationFan

The Good News is that if they “go and sin no more” they will be forgiven.


29 posted on 01/11/2013 12:26:56 PM PST by running_dog_lackey
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

That is categorically different than the accusation you laid out: that the answer given concerning profit is invalid.

Simply put, you do not need to read all of scripture to know that murder is sin — not even the ten commandments — in Proverbs it says feet quick to shed innocent blood is an abomination to God.

Likewise, you do not need the whole of scripture to say that God is concerned with the hearts of men. (Is 58, 3rd Jn, James, Jesus’s statement that God seeks people who will worship him in spirit, and more.)

I should think that you do not understand scripture, if you cannot see that in God’s quest for our hearts He makes it profitable (not always in the temporal-world) to seek Himself — and that is Sam’s answer as to why the Gospel is good news for even homosexuals.


30 posted on 01/11/2013 12:46:25 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: henkster

Have you read this article?

http://www.hancockbaptist.org/05ArticlesText.php?t=JesusWouldDiscriminate.txt


31 posted on 01/11/2013 12:49:36 PM PST by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan
It ain't just 'the Gospel'.

Biology sentences unrepentant queers to genetic extinction.

32 posted on 01/11/2013 12:58:31 PM PST by tomkat (HELL NO)
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To: OneWingedShark
Have a wonderful journey on the road of life.

Shabbat Shalom !

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

33 posted on 01/11/2013 1:10:12 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: running_dog_lackey

“Go and sin no more”.

We may never know if Jesus ever said this to a homo. But he did say it to adulterers and a woman who’d been married and divorced 5 times and was currently living in sin.


34 posted on 01/11/2013 1:14:14 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: CARTOUCHE; All; Jim Robinson
Interesting conundrum for the Christian-centered community of Freepers who happen to be in same-sex relationships and who are otherwise conservative in their political views. Do we drive them away being fellow patriot gun owner/operators, conservative voters; and fellow Texans, or do we ignore and do no harm? There are many of us that worship Jesus Christ and yet ignore the rest of y’all that seem to want to send our gay s to the gas chamber. Get over it. The world isn’t as tidy as you had hoped.

I guess you didn't get the memo that Free Republic stands for God and the traditional family - I believe Jim Robinson has made that abundantly clear.

Your cheap caricature of pro-family conservatives wanting to send gays "to the gas chamber" parrots the extremist rhetoric of the gay and secularist agenda and is an affront to many on this board.

Yeah, for sure there are legions of "Christ-centered" gays who are "just like us" (except for engaging in homosexual anal sex with - statistics reveal - legions of partners). There is little evidence that this imaginary constituency exists anywhere except in your mind.

As for your hollow claim to "worship Jesus," our Lord himself addressed the hypocrites of His day: "Why do you call me Lord and do not do as I say?"

In Matthew 19, in addressing the Pharisees of His day (applicable also to Pharisees on FR), Jesus affirmed the divine plan for marriage: "And He answered and said to them, 'Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?"

As for the insinuation that Jesus has Himself "gotten over" His repressive morality, good luck with that: "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away." As for the contention that the moral law is no longer applicable to us in the "enlightened" modern age: "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

I suspect you are aware of all this, but sadly have chosen instead to side with those who oppose the teachings of Jesus regarding marriage.

As for your back-handed dismissal of pro-family conservatives who, according to you, need to "get over it," I also suspect that few will heed your demand, but will stand fast in affirming teachings of their Lord.

The question rather is whether you will "get over" your double-minded insistence on calling yourself "conservative" while being a mouthpiece for radical, anti-Faith secularism: "Choose this day whom you will serve."

35 posted on 01/11/2013 1:14:40 PM PST by tjd1454
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To: ReformationFan

I believe you should have led this man to Christ for salvation. Get him to the cross, burial and resurrection of our Lord. Then if he has truly turned to Jesus then there will eventually be a change in him.
We were never commissioned to change mankind, but to teach and live the life representing Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit will do the work in him. That is the power of God.


36 posted on 01/11/2013 1:15:26 PM PST by Ramonne
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To: butterdezillion

Well said, my FRiend.


37 posted on 01/11/2013 1:15:36 PM PST by jagusafr (the American Trinity (Liberty, In G0D We Trust, E Pluribus Unum))
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To: ReformationFan

I have seen that article, and it references the situation I was talking about. Greenfield is the county seat of Hancock County, which is the contiguous county east of Indianapolis (Marion County).


38 posted on 01/11/2013 1:32:16 PM PST by henkster ("The people who count the votes decide everything." -Joseph Stalin)
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To: CARTOUCHE

Not a problem. When they push the homo agenda on FR, they get the zot!!


39 posted on 01/11/2013 1:35:03 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: ReformationFan
I had explained, as carefully and graciously as I could, that Jesus upheld and expanded the wider biblical stance on sexuality, that the only context for sexual activity is heterosexual marriage. Following Jesus would mean seeking to live under his word, in this area as in any other.

As "graciously" as you could, when you dared add to the requirements Jesus gave?

Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ ALL the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
- Matthew 22:34-40

Oh, but of course, what Matthew left out of Jesus' words about damning homosexuality, YOUR Bible genius understands should have been included.

In the same way that when Luke quoted Jesus saying sell everything you have and give thee money to the poor, YOUR Bible genius understands He didn't mean YOU.

You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.'" And he said, "All these I have observed from my youth." And when Jesus heard it, he said to him, "One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."
- Luke 18:20-22

Gay marriage is one thing (which Christians screw up anyway by allowing the State to be the legitimizer of Holy Matrimony instead of the Church). But - teaching homosexuals they are banned from Jesus' love and redemption solely because of their homosexuality is a whole 'nother thing. You RUN where angels fear to tread - literally "damning the fags" while "keeping your money."

Well you might get a lot of chuckles from the good old boys, but Jesus isn't smiling.

And one more thing - do you actually think you can screw with Jesus' teaching without payback?

When you damn people in Jesus' name who Jesus did NOT damn, they turn against you. And while you laugh - they vote. Look at the White House while you're laughing. Look at Obamacare while you're laughing. Kiss your guns goodbye while you're laughing. Did it EVER occur to you that the reason the Left might have so much power in this country is BECAUSE the hypocrisy of Christians have driven them AWAY from the teachings of Jesus that WOULD have reined in their madness and hatred?

What, you think Jesus is so IRRELEVENT that this can't be true?

:: spit ::

But I agree with you on one thing - there WILL be a Judgement Day, and we WILL face Jesus.

And He's going to want to know WHY YOU drove His children AWAY from Him.

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."
- Matthew 7:3-5

But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
-Matthew 18:6

40 posted on 01/11/2013 1:36:02 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: ReformationFan

The author’s homosexual friend probably called his 15-year relationship “committed,” when in truth, it was probably rife with dozens of anonymous side “johns” he met at bars, rest stops, and Crate and Barrel.

The author should have gently explored in this direction.


41 posted on 01/11/2013 1:38:41 PM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Talisker

Right on!! So when homosexuality is pushed on us, let’s keep quiet lest we be called hypocrites or drive people away!!

Homosexuality is a higher degree of grievous sin :

Leviticus 18:22 (KJV) “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

Since you seem to be lecturing us on driving people away should the church stay quiet? That didn’t help in the 60’s and 70’ did it?

Remember now it is the homosexual agenda that is being pushed onto us? Is your solution to not push back? But that would kind of defeat the purpose now wouldn’t it? Don’t speak out against it because then people will be against Christ and people will be mad at us and vote Democrat, but then being homosexual is against Christ is it not?

No thank you I’ll reject your interpretations and keep up the good fight and not stay quiet and not accept homosexuality :

Matthew 10:22 (KJV) :

“And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.”


42 posted on 01/11/2013 2:01:50 PM PST by ctpsb (Thanks.)
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To: Talisker

Right on!! So when homosexuality is pushed on us, let’s keep quiet lest we be called hypocrites or drive people away!!

Homosexuality is a higher degree of grievous sin :

Leviticus 18:22 (KJV) “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

Since you seem to be lecturing us on driving people away should the church stay quiet? That didn’t help in the 60’s and 70’ did it?

Remember now it is the homosexual agenda that is being pushed onto us? Is your solution to not push back? But that would kind of defeat the purpose now wouldn’t it? Don’t speak out against it because then people will be against Christ and people will be mad at us and vote Democrat, but then being homosexual is against Christ is it not?

No thank you I’ll reject your interpretations and keep up the good fight and not stay quiet and not accept homosexuality :

Matthew 10:22 (KJV) :

“And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.”


43 posted on 01/11/2013 2:02:23 PM PST by ctpsb (Thanks.)
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To: CARTOUCHE

Wow. Your post certainly attracted the Viking Kitties. Did you mean to do that?

“...or do we ignore and do no harm?”

May I remind you that all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke.

Ignore and do no harm? No sir. I - for one - will NOT ignore the harm that gays do.


44 posted on 01/11/2013 2:05:16 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Talisker

“When you damn people in Jesus’ name who Jesus did NOT damn, they turn against you.”

Did you even read the article? The entire point was to treat those struggling with this and all sin that it’s not easy and that all Christians should be supportive in helping those struggling with all sin.

Or did you just see another opportunity to criticize evangelicals under the guise of being the good Christian?


45 posted on 01/11/2013 2:08:05 PM PST by ctpsb (Thanks.)
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To: Talisker

“Did it EVER occur to you that the reason the Left might have so much power in this country is BECAUSE the hypocrisy of Christians have driven them AWAY from the teachings of Jesus that WOULD have reined in their madness and hatred?”

Or did it ever occur to you that the reason the Left has so much power is because Satan is the ruler of the world and tries to influence everyone as much as possible?

2 Corinthians 4:4 (NIV) :

“The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.”


46 posted on 01/11/2013 2:16:17 PM PST by ctpsb (Thanks.)
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To: ReformationFan
I've read the many replies to this article/post. Some are good, some are very good, some are downright inhospitable, some are "just so wrong."

I will say only this:

1st Corinthians 3:1-8, "And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

And this:

John 12:32, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."

All we can do is present the Gospel to the homosexual community, the correct, pure and unblemished truth of God's Word. It is the job of the Holy Ghost to draw them to Jesus.

And please, don't call them gay. "Gay" was once a good term used to denote someone as being happy. Homosexuals are not "happy," homosexuality is a perverse lifestyle, one condemned by the Word of God.

That's my two cents worth. Like it or not, deal with it.

47 posted on 01/11/2013 2:44:53 PM PST by ducttape45 (Can you tell I'm angry?)
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To: CARTOUCHE
Concentrate on defeating the real enemies of freedom. BHO for starters.

There is a reason that the homosexual sex practitioners are a community organized group of useful idiots supporting BHO and it has nothing to do with individual freedom or conservatism.

Get a clue -the promotion of homosexual sex normalcy; the homosexual agenda, is an enemy of freedom.

Though you may suggest to politely impose acceptance of homosexual sex as normal among conservatives while the left imposes it by force of government; there is no difference.

Only leftists think they can create a heaven on earth and in doing so create a hell.

48 posted on 01/11/2013 3:05:58 PM PST by DBeers (†)
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To: CARTOUCHE
There are many of us that worship Jesus Christ and yet ignore the rest of y’all that seem to want to send our gay s to the gas chamber.

Worship of Jesus and defense of sin are contradictory in nature - and homosexual relations are sin (http://www.peacebyjesus.net/homosex_versus_the_bible.pdf) - and liberty without limits is anarchy.

That said, all have sinned, and all do, and compassion is to be shown to the penitent, and love toward even enemies, and there is room at the cross for all who are of a contrite heart and will come to the risen Lord Jesus for salvation by His sinless shed blood.

49 posted on 01/11/2013 3:26:41 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: DBeers

Indeed. While I’ll concede that many individual homosexual persons may very well be free-market capitalists who only wish to be left alone by the government, the homosexualist collective movement that blindly worships Obama and the Democrats most certainly does not hold to that view. Check out-

http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm


50 posted on 01/11/2013 4:40:14 PM PST by ReformationFan
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