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There are no winners in war against moderates
http://www.kearneyhub.com ^ | May 5, 2012 | Cokie and Steven Roberts

Posted on 05/05/2012 3:57:17 PM PDT by Maelstorm

Former Republican Rep. Tom Davis told The Hill newspaper: “The middle is getting squeezed,” but his comment vastly understates the crisis in the capital. Activists in both parties have declared war on moderates. The ideological gap between the two parties is widening rapidly. Paralysis is pervasive.

Political scientist Keith Poole of the University of Georgia, who studies voting patterns, told the National Journal: “We are clearly as conflicted as we’ve been since 1905. The parties are, I think, completely dysfunctional and incapable of acting on major policy.”

The National Journal reports that as recently as 1999, more than half of all House members could be called centrists. That number has dropped to almost zero, and next year the president — whoever he is — will face an even more polarized Congress.

We have become Europe, with ideologically based parties, rigidly enforced discipline and fast-fading bipartisanship. That system might work in smaller, more homogenous countries, but it’s a disaster in a nation this large and diverse.

Our political tradition has always placed pragmatism over purity, reality over rigidity. Americans dealt with the world as it was, not as we wanted it to be. We didn’t spout dogma; we solved problems.

Both parties can share blame.

Start with the Democrats. In Pennsylvania, two moderate congressmen — Jason Altmire and Tim Holden — lost to primary challengers from the left. Both belonged to the centrist group known as Blue Dogs, which included 54 House Democrats.

Altmire and Holden were opposed by outside groups — from MoveOn to the League of Conservation Voters — who punished them for straying from liberal orthodoxy. (Both lawmakers voted against Obama’s health-care bill, for example.)

The leftist website Daily Kos crowed about the outcome, boasting that the demise of the Blue Dogs would create “a more effective and progressive Democratic party.” Wrong.

This is not a left-leaning country. In the last election, only 22 percent of all voters called themselves liberals. The loss of Blue Dogs like Altmire and Holden might make the Democrats a more “progressive” party, but also a far smaller and less “effective” one.

Republicans engage in the same kind of fantasy politics. In Utah, hard-core ideologues have challenged the renomination of Sen. Orrin Hatch, a loyal conservative but a professional legislator who prided himself on working with Democrats like the late Ted Kennedy. He doesn’t dare work with Democrats anymore.

In Indiana, another Republican conservative who doesn’t believe Democrats consort with the devil, Sen. Richard Lugar, is facing a fierce primary challenge next week from state Treasurer Richard Mourdock. Keepers of the right-wing flame, from the National Review to Sarah Palin, have weighed in against Lugar because he fails their purity test.

On the presidential level, too, centrist impulses are sputtering. Democrat Bill Clinton ran for re-election declaring that “the era of big government is over.” His successor, George W. Bush, campaigned as a “compassionate conservative” who would unite, not divide, the nation.

Now, Mitt Romney is desperately calling himself a “severe conservative” and running as fast as he can from the label that he once proudly embraced, “Massachusetts moderate.”

The war on moderates is escalating. Extremes are winning. The American system is losing.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: bluedogs; cokieroberts; dailykos; davis; dicklugar; indiana; jasonaltmire; keithpoole; lugar; massachusetts; mediawingofthednc; mittromney; moderates; moveon; nationalreview; orrinhatch; partisanmediashills; pennsylvania; rathergate; richardlugar; richardmourdock; sarahpalin; southcarolina; stevenroberts; tedkennedy; timholden; tomdavis; utah; virginia
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There are so many things wrong with this. The first is the definition of moderate=good. There is nothing moderate or good about the damaged in accumulated debt and growth of govt that has been incurred in our name because of "moderates".

Liberals and liberal leaning are a small minority without conservatives like Lugar and the out and out liberal Republicans like Snowe and Collins they can get their way they and their big govt plans die. They know it and the Roberts wonder twins know it too. So sure they bemoan the rise of candidates like Sen Rand Lee, Sen Mike Lee, Sen Ron Johnson, Sen Marco Rubio, Sen Jim Demint and soon to be Senator Mourdock.

There isn't a chance in hell that any of those guys will go soft where it counts. The growth of conservative strength in the Senate is a better indicator of conservative strength than even the House because the more we show we can win Senate seats which are state wide races the more we become stronger overall.

The left can not win as long as we fight them straight on and don't let them get away with two standards. They don't want to fight they just want us to elect GOP which will sell away our liberties one piece at a time and rather than making us more like Europe we are guarantee we stop the slide towards being more like Europe.

We are reclaiming America. We were NEVER a moderate nation. We have always been a nation of bold colors, proud patriotism and faith and they should be happy we are choosing to take back our country through the political process rather than through the violent response to their thievery of our birth right they deserve.

1 posted on 05/05/2012 3:57:20 PM PDT by Maelstorm
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To: Maelstorm

The moderates always win. Lately, they’ve been winning, and then screwing up.


2 posted on 05/05/2012 3:59:51 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Maelstorm

“Moderation in war is imbecility”- Admiral John Fisher

Likewise, moderation in politics is imbecility.


3 posted on 05/05/2012 4:00:24 PM PDT by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: Maelstorm
The real test of a Congresscritter or Senator is the "drool test'. Once they stop passing it they need to retire, or be retired.

There's no middle either. Congress itself has rules that require yeah or nay. Maybe doesn't cut it.

The quantum nature of politics needs to be addressed realistically. Reacharounds don't quite do that. in fact, they are damaging to the legitimacy of Congress, as well as to the very concept of government.

4 posted on 05/05/2012 4:04:25 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Maelstorm

The compromise is to actually use and take seriously the tenth amendment. Almost everything we are fighting over does not belong a the federal level anyway. Liberal states and Conservatives states can live side by side peacefully, but we will never be happy with everyone being forced into conformity from the federal government.


5 posted on 05/05/2012 4:05:40 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: GenXteacher

Moderate means Democrat Lite. Moderates always move the country to the Left, never to the Right. Compromise always seems to mean give the Left just a little less than what they ask for - never give the Right anything.

Moderate is bad and is truly what is bad about American Politics because its always one way - just a little closer to Leftist victory.


6 posted on 05/05/2012 4:06:50 PM PDT by Castigar
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To: Castigar

“Compromise always seems to mean give the Left just a little less than what they ask for - never give the Right anything.”

Which eventually means the left gets everything it wants, at some point- everything the right wants will eventually be compromised away- “its the pragmatic thing to do” or “politics is the art of the possible.” Rubbish.....


7 posted on 05/05/2012 4:15:07 PM PDT by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: Maelstorm
What is the moderate position between life and death?
What is the moderate position between stealing and not stealing from one neighbor to pay another?
What is the moderate position between defending the Constitution and not defending the Constitution?
What is the moderate position between liberty and tyranny?

In reality, there are no true moderates, only those who don't want their position labeled right or left.

8 posted on 05/05/2012 4:17:34 PM PDT by kosciusko51 (Enough of "Who is John Galt?" Who is Patrick Henry?)
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To: Maelstorm

“Our political tradition has always placed pragmatism over purity, reality over rigidity”

http://www.johnspeedie.com/healy/crap.wav


9 posted on 05/05/2012 4:18:42 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: Maelstorm
"Moderate" Republicans are Republicans who vote with Democrats. "Moderate" Democrats are Democrats who vote with radical Democrats. A "moderate" Congress gives a Democrat President everything he wants and denies a Republican President anything he wants. A "moderate" electorate does whatever the media tell it to. Hell yes, there's a squeeze on this sort of "moderate" and very properly so.

Cokie and Dokie have read the tea party leaves and don't like what they see. Too bad.

10 posted on 05/05/2012 4:22:17 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: BenLurkin

We are all better off if the government is paralyzed.


11 posted on 05/05/2012 4:22:27 PM PDT by refermech
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To: Castigar
So let's change our usage of the term moderate. From now on all conservatives should refer to themselves and other conservative leaders/pundits as moderate. It worked for the socialists as they kept referring to themselves as Liberal. When the media howl with outrage and question how could we label ourselves as moderate it will be a great opening. We would get to point out that we are not the ones that advocate baby murder, total central government control, crippling regulatory environment, creating welfare state dependency/slavery and surrendering our national sovereignty. Therefore we must be the moderates, as the supporters of these positions are the Jacobins.
12 posted on 05/05/2012 4:22:37 PM PDT by Kudsman
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To: Maelstorm

Now that the GOP has been moderated into a coma, when will they get around to moderating the democrats?


13 posted on 05/05/2012 4:25:18 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Maelstorm

“We are clearly as conflicted as we’ve been since 1905.”

Wrong date, Cokie. Try 1861.


14 posted on 05/05/2012 4:26:20 PM PDT by sergeantdave
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To: Castigar

Exactly. How do you compromise with a socialist when they don’t believe you have a right to what you earn or own? It doesn’t matter weather we are talking spending, abortion, environment,workers rights, sex freakism(glbtq), its all the same. Its all about using the government to force our will and our money into servitude of the leftist political class for their benefit.

We need people at a minimum who represent the will of the people who elect them. A deep red state should have a deep red Senator and our goal should be to move every state to a more constitutional more conservative bent so as to protect our nation. There should be no desire to compromise. The left has shown no willingness to respect us. They are always pushing big homogenous plans to force us to agree with them from schools to health care they call merely disagreeing and religious piety ‘Hate’. This is a war they started and individuals like Lugar will not win it. They will instead give our country away piece by piece bit by bit without firing shot.


15 posted on 05/05/2012 4:28:35 PM PDT by Maelstorm (Better to keep your enemy in your sights than in your camp expecting him to guard your back.)
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To: Maelstorm
Pay attention Steve and Cokie...and learn something.

It started in the early 90’s when the internet, talk radio, and C-SPAN became unfiltered sources of information about what our legislature was up to. No longer were people dependent on a few newspapers and even fewer news readers for information. It was shortly after that, Dems lost their 40 year DC domination.

There is a harmonious consensus when Congress, pop culture and the media are predominately lib. Any opposition can be suppressed or ridiculed. Things only became “more partisan” when conservatives were finally able to voice their opinions unfettered.

It's been divided for a while now...it's just that the libs no longer monopolize political discourse, and why they desperately want to bring back the “fairness doctrine” so they can, once again, determine both sides of the argument.

16 posted on 05/05/2012 4:34:06 PM PDT by Tex-Con-Man (T. Coddington Van Voorhees VII 2012 - "Together, I Shall Ride You To Victory")
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To: Maelstorm

Poor Cokie, she never did let fact and logic get in her way.


17 posted on 05/05/2012 4:37:26 PM PDT by xzins (Vote Goode not Evil (the lesser of 2 evils is still evil))
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To: Maelstorm

Bullstalin on the claim that there is greater separation between the parties. The former Democrat RINOs who infest the GOP need to TAKE BACK their party from the red diaper socialists who’ve taken it over since 1968.

It’s the conservative movement that’s being squeezed out of the political parties.

And if you ask the man on the street, he still opposes “SOCIALISM” and Barack Hussein Marxist Obama knows this. He ridicules those who call his plans Socialist. But he does not provide any refutation that they ARE Socialist. He just cites things like medicare/medicade and social security that people already depend on.


18 posted on 05/05/2012 4:40:30 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (Barack Obama has cut and run from what he called "the right war".)
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To: Maelstorm

The biggest problem with this theory as posited is that the definition of left and right hasn’t changed at all in the past 40 years.

I have yet to see the goal posts moved to the right in any definable measure in the past 30 years. Less government, less government spending, lower regulation, pro-choice, support of the U.S. Constitution, individual rights, self-determination, strong national defense, supporting interstate trade and commerce without restriction.

The left has moved from equal opportunity to equal outcomes. It has moved from safety net programs to government guarantees and tried to define them as rights. It has foisted the interests of minorities ahead of equal protection to special protection and more importantly, racial and group exception from legal prosecution. It has gone beyond advocating changing sources of energy as the market dictates and allows to mandating it and funding losing effort after losing effort with great financial hardship at our expense.

I could go on and on but we know how the list goes.


19 posted on 05/05/2012 4:41:51 PM PDT by PittsburghAfterDark
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To: Maelstorm
He doesn’t dare work with Democrats anymore.

Perhaps Hatch has finally figured out that voters don't elect him to work with Democrats, they elect him to DEFEAT Democrats.

20 posted on 05/05/2012 4:43:40 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Obama vs. Romney: Zero x Zero = Zero.)
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To: Vince Ferrer
Liberal states and Conservatives states can live side by side peacefully,

Really? What do you suppose will happen when the Socialists states run out of money to feed the hordes that the free stuff attracts?

The Civil War was not just about slavery.

21 posted on 05/05/2012 4:44:57 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: PittsburghAfterDark
I have yet to see the goal posts moved to the right in any definable measure in the past 30 years.

The GOP should be an anchor in the right. Instead they've chosen to be a sail or worse, cowering dogs slinking along behind the democrats hoping for the occasional crumb.
22 posted on 05/05/2012 4:49:03 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Vince Ferrer

Correct and well said.


23 posted on 05/05/2012 4:52:15 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Maelstorm
Paralysis is pervasive.

And this is a bad thing?

24 posted on 05/05/2012 4:58:46 PM PDT by Yashcheritsiy (Anybody but Obama and Romney)
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To: Billthedrill

Moderate muslims say nothing when they bow down to the capital of the Islamic empire and it’s death penalty for any non-muslims who’d date enter their segregated city. They say nothing when the religious texts of all other faiths are seized by the theocratic government the bow down to five times a day every day.

Such is “moderation”.


25 posted on 05/05/2012 5:08:44 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (Barack Obama has cut and run from what he called "the right war".)
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To: Maelstorm

You got to love those “moderates” who coddle with Democrate Marxist terrorists and islamofascists... in the name of “tolerance” and “moderation”....

Like when McCain tried to make LaRaza kid minions of his, pedophile style.


26 posted on 05/05/2012 5:21:53 PM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: Maelstorm

I’d say the definition of moderate has been moved to the left. The American System is federalism. We don’t have a parliament or an imperial presidency in the American System.

We have a very narrowly focused federal government, not a national one. Within its proper Constitutional bounds the federal government is a fraction of its current size and states compete. Corruption is minimized and localized because there isn’t a fat purse to filch or massive programs to leech off of.

The troubles begin and end with the “Progressives”.


27 posted on 05/05/2012 5:34:58 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: sergeantdave

Cokie Roberts??? I didn’t even check the author. She’s a liberal and a liar, but I repeat myself.


28 posted on 05/05/2012 5:36:47 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Maelstorm
Remember, this is written by a pair of lifelong leftwing operatives. "Moderate" doesn't mean to them what it means to you or me or the dictionary.
29 posted on 05/05/2012 5:41:02 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: 1010RD
The troubles begin and end with the “Progressives”.

succinct and it has the ring of truth to it. May I adopt this as my tag line? I'll credit you.

30 posted on 05/05/2012 5:46:08 PM PDT by Kudsman
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To: Kudsman

All that I have is yours, FRiend. But I want 50% of the t-shirt profits. ;-]


31 posted on 05/05/2012 5:57:23 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

Lol. Done.


32 posted on 05/05/2012 6:05:50 PM PDT by Kudsman (The troubles begin and end with the “Progressives”. - 1010RD)
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Got to clean it up tho.


33 posted on 05/05/2012 6:08:42 PM PDT by Kudsman (The troubles begin and end with the "Progressives" -1010RD)
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To: Kudsman

GTG.


34 posted on 05/05/2012 6:09:20 PM PDT by Kudsman (The troubles begin and end with the "Progressives" -1010RD)
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To: Maelstorm

The definition of moderate is a little skewed as of late, with John Kennedy being an ultra conservative by todays standards. The middle is so for to the left it eliminates the right.


35 posted on 05/05/2012 6:10:20 PM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Maelstorm

Well, Cokie and Stevie, the obvious answer is to get rid of all the Democrats running for office this year so that the country can recover from the corrupt, immoral Leftist policies that are ruining the nation.


36 posted on 05/05/2012 6:17:55 PM PDT by txrefugee
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks Maelstorm.
Former Republican Rep. Tom Davis told The Hill newspaper: "The middle is getting squeezed," ...Activists in both parties have declared war on moderates. The ideological gap between the two parties is widening rapidly.
from the FRchives:
37 posted on 05/05/2012 11:07:56 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Maelstorm

World’s smallest book, “Great Moderates in History” - Rush Limbaugh


38 posted on 05/05/2012 11:08:53 PM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: GenXteacher
That kind of depends on how you define "moderation".

You can be fervent in your beliefs and yet moderate in the way you express them.

39 posted on 05/06/2012 3:04:00 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: kosciusko51

And in what world is “labeling” a good thing?


40 posted on 05/06/2012 3:05:23 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: sergeantdave

Agreed.


41 posted on 05/06/2012 3:06:47 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: xzins

I think she’s right - certainly about the polarisation of US politics anyway.


42 posted on 05/06/2012 3:08:55 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: PittsburghAfterDark

The definition may not have changed, but the “progressives” are far, far more openly following the logical conclusion of their mindsets.


43 posted on 05/06/2012 3:10:37 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Vanders9

If you don’t believe in labels, take all of them off your kitchen cleaning supplies and foodstuffs, then randomly rearrange them. Then, you will know why labels are a good thing.


44 posted on 05/06/2012 5:16:19 AM PDT by kosciusko51 (Enough of "Who is John Galt?" Who is Patrick Henry?)
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To: dfwgator

Excellent point.


45 posted on 05/06/2012 6:35:44 AM PDT by Maelstorm (Better to keep your enemy in your sights than in your camp expecting him to guard your back.)
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To: Vanders9

‘That kind of depends on how you define “moderation”.’

“..Decided only to be undecided, resolved to be irresolute, adamant for drift, solid for fluidity, all-powerful to be impotent.”- Winston Churchill

Sounds like a good definition of moderate to me- someone who stands for nothing.


46 posted on 05/06/2012 7:08:53 AM PDT by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: GenXteacher

Well, I dont define it like that.


47 posted on 05/06/2012 10:50:03 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: kosciusko51

I meant labeling people, not kitchen utensils. I like to think that people have a great deal more worth than egg whisks.


48 posted on 05/06/2012 10:52:07 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Maelstorm

>>That system might work in smaller, more homogenous countries, but it’s a disaster in a nation this large and diverse.

This nation was never intended to work via top down “leadership” from Washington, DC. Power needs to devolve back to the states now that this experiment in centralized power, American style, has been shown to be an abject failure.


49 posted on 05/06/2012 10:56:45 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Vanders9
I'm not talking about labeling people, just their ideas.

Perhaps I should not have used "right" or "left" for labels, but "good" and "bad". For instance, killing someone is bad. "Bad" is a label, but it easily conveys a meaning to the subject.

To go on, what about the terms "supply-side economics" or "Keynesian economics". Both are labels that quickly sum up two different economic schools of thought. Without the labels, I have to explain in detail what each means. With the label, I can quickly establish a starting point for a discussion.

So I don't understand your problem with labels.

50 posted on 05/06/2012 1:26:15 PM PDT by kosciusko51 (Enough of "Who is John Galt?" Who is Patrick Henry?)
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