Posted on 11/14/2011 11:34:43 PM PST by Kevmo
Inability to lift the output above the noise band seems a major source of doubt for many.
***That’s fine. Just throw out those results for considering whether or not the effect is real.
It’s a nice piece of work, well done.
Has anyone ever operated an E-Cat for an extended period of time?
***Rossi claims he’s heated a factory for 2 years but none of the skeptics believe it because he won’t walk them over to it and show them. One of the worst things happening with e-cat is Rossi’s personality.
Say, till it stopped operating for some reason yet to be determined? If yes, is there data?
***I think the site you’re looking at has some of the best data. There are 2 other good places to check in.
LENR-CANR.org
http://www.lenr-canr.org/FilesByDate.htm
Vortex mailing list
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-
Great, I’ll look at that stuff.
Another thing I’d lose is the Conan-Doyle quote. When I have actually found myself in that situation in the past, having though I’d eliminated the possible, it was usually a failure of imagination. The more common error is to fail to see a possibility as existing at all and thus miss it.
***I see you are a genuine inductive learner. You will enjoy this pursuit. I share your view of such a quote from a work of fiction as if it had some form of validity — which you have shown it actually does not.
Generally I’d avoid all appeals to authority as a form of argumentation.
***One of the things I would point out at this juncture is that I have caught a whole bunch of frantic skeptics using dozens of classic fallacies. They use them over & over again, even after having been pointed out. That is a major source of frustration.
Some of the data looks pretty good. What is needed is more and better data to make the case.
***Of course, that is what everyone wants. However, Rossi is not interested in scientific study. His interest is in generating enough data to have the customer sign on the dotted line and put cash across the table. That is a little bit lower of a threshold but it is a compelling one because the more e-cats are sold, the fewer are the objections until there’s a simple tipping point of acceptance. By having sold units all along before that tipping point, Rossi would have been ahead of the game.
I trust the guys currently running the independent tests to do them honestly. Cases of individuals committing scientific fraud occur often enough that I have personally seen more than one. Groups of three I haven’t seen or heard of yet so I am in principal happy with three guys doing independent testing. Most likely they are not colluding. Are there any plans to do more tests with better calorimetry?
***No. Rossi says he’s done testing, he’s selling units now.
Didn't expect a reply to my comments, but appreciate it. WRT classic fallacies, I have seen much of that from both sides. As you know, truth does not have a side, and volume does not make an argument. I have seen some of the abuse you put up with and you have shown yourself to be a model of restraint.
The Great Pseudo Scam Sham Slam
Wednesday, November 16, 2011
http://freeenergytruth.blogspot.com/2011/11/great-pseudo-scam-sham-slam.html
We keep hearing the same thing from pseudosceptics about Rossi - “It’s a scam!”.
You will see the same breathless “It’s a scam!” proclamation written in the comments section of almost every eCat article or blog, but EVERY SINGLE ONE of the very few people saying it have the same three things in common - they never stop to explain how the “scam” is supposed to work, they appear have a clear establishment bias and to them Rossi is worthy of a much coveted place in Ocean’s 11.
They seem desperate for everyone to believe them, when most of us are content to see how this all plays out, having never invested a single penny. Why is this? There is not one single individual I know of that has a single penny invested in Rossi’s eCat yet the drooling pseudos would have us believe that Bernie Madoff has been re-incarnated and relocated to Italy and we’re all in desperate need of their protection from the evil eCat.
Have you noticed that the pseudosceptics do something else that’s very odd as well? They seem to manifest a bizarre and irrational concern for the financial well being of invisible investors whom they’ve never met and yet they are for some unexplainable reason, desperate to protect. Isn’t that just the queerest behaviour? Especially when the private central banks are successfully pulling the biggest con in decades on hundreds of millions of people right now. Are the sceptics trying to protect us from them? Are the scep-ticks doing anything about the Indian call centres who call you weekly to pretend your computer has a virus and then quickly take your credit card details? So what’s the obsession with Rossi all about then? Clearly they couldn’t give a toss about protecting people’s wallets - it’s a smokescreen for another agenda and people need to get wise to this.
The pseudos describe themselves as sceptics or “critical thinkers”, but what they forget is that to be a true critical thinker or sceptic involves being critical of your OWN hypothesis as well as others, otherwise we are ALL sceptics and the meaning of the term “sceptic” is rendered useless.
Their style of self-branding as “critical thinkers” also has an implicit declaration of superiority, by somehow implying that everyone else does not apply their own critical thinking processes.
Not once have the all seeing all knowing “critical thinkers” explained to us gullible mortals the explanations behind the accusations they throw at Rossi. I for one would like to know, so I don’t get conned.
The definition of a scam is: a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, especially for making a quick profit; swindle.
Whether the pseudosceptics like it or not, the fact remains that they no more know the truth than anyone else. If we are to belive that there is indeed proof of irregularities of one form or another then let’s hear it! Let’s have the hard evidence please.
Where are the double crossed investors? Where are the irate scammed customers? Where are the gullible venture capitalists who’ve been taken for a ride? Nowhere to be seen. Why has it taken Rossi so long to cash in on this? Wouldn’t he have cashed out at the very peak of the preceedings after the 1MW demo? That’s a bit odd isn’t it, but the pseudos don’t mention this.
Why are Defkalion still defending Rossi technology despite Rossi’s clear contempt for them? Are they in on it as well? Are we to assume that the various multinationals involved so far have not carried out due diligence? Is it conceivable that Focardi, Bianchini, Rossi wife, the milkman, the tramp in the park and other individuals have been conned for years, or are the pseudos saying that THEY are all in on the long con as well?
Why conduct 5 or so public demos, every time risking the whole thing on some over-observant
nosey bastard spotting the deliberate mistake? Why would you say you are going to demo a 1MW plant and then only demo a half megawatt? Why not go the whole hog and say you done a full 1MW? These questions are avoided by the “critical thinkers”.
Next time the pseudos say “scam”, ask them to provide proof since they are all such experts on how the great con is supposed to work, or maybe get them to explain how something so complex and underhand can be run for such a long time in the presence of so many highly educated and competent people. Ask them for the same thing they demand from believers - ask for a scientific and well thought out reasoning and dimes to dollars they can’t do it.
And what about all the bribes that Rossi is being accused of issuing? By my reckoning he’d have spent more on bribes than he could ever expect to get back from the first 2 years sales of eCats.
If the pseudos are to be believed Rossi has also overnight become the world’s most talented actor worthy of several Academy Awards, not to mention becoming a master at hiding giveaway body language in every one of his videos so far.
If you believe the pseudos then that’s quite a scam he’s got going there, not to mention he’s a helluva talented individual.
I don’t pretend to know exactly what is going on with the whole eCat thing and how it will all turn out in the end, but one thing is for sure - at this precise moment in time the scam hypothesis being touted is speculative crapola based on nothing more than a dripping mixture of unsubstantiated horse manure, establishment fear, bias and paranoia.
When the scam is revealed, you are going to be the poster child
Rossi Energy Catalyzer: A No-Win Situation
by admin on November 15, 2011
http://rossienergycatalyzers.com/andrea-rossi/rossi-energy-catalyzer-a-no-win-situation
It is already a public knowledge that Rossi claims to have built a machine that allows reproduction of Rossi Energy Catalyzer on a larger scale. This is the machine that is expected to mass produce cheap, safe and clean energy. And a lot more energy that would help solve the energy crisis the world is experiencing. If Rossi’s discovery proves right, then the machine certainly changes everything. This is another story altogether. Let us talk about Andrea Rossi, meanwhile. The Italian inventor has been receiving unflattering comments about his actions even after his device celebrated its October 28 private test, which was a success. Many people claim that Rossi made a big show that fooled even the reliable scientists. Let us say that Rossi could be completely wrong with his research concerning Rossi Energy Catalyzer. What then? I don’t think that is fraudulent because he is not trying to get investors, instead he is trying to sell machines as what he always wants to tell us.
The greatest problem surrounding Rossi Energy Catalyzer is that it is a no-win situation. He is not willing to reveal the secret inside his reactor during the series of rigorous tests which makes the situation more complicated. Rossi also cannot explain his invention with accepted physics that prevents him from getting a patent. Clearly, Rossi is in a no-win situation. Rossi’s response is simple: You explain it, I am selling it.
So the big question is: What is accepted physics is incomplete and that Rossi is right with his discovery? Do we really need to refrain ourselves from embracing the cold fusion technology just because it failed before? There is always a second chance, right? And unlimited cheap energy is what the world needs now. Guess Rossi needs someone to explain the miraculous device ASAP.
Is that the factory that’s located in the fifth-floor apartment?
More info on Rossi’s “factory” in Florida:
According to the State of FL, there is no “Leonardo Technologies,” which is a name that Rossi has used repeatedly in press releases. Rather, the registered entity name is “Leonardo Corporation:”
Here is a link to the exact business location in Rossi’s filing:
CLEARLY, this is not a factory, and I would imagine that Rossi does not have the required permits and licenses to run any sort of business from that apartment. Unfortunately, Miami-Dade don’t have the records search for that online, or I’d post the results here.
Now, Kevmo and WW: you are always talking about, “the facts on the ground,” so here are some for you to sink your teeth into. Spin away!
The POINT was that these postings have almost NO scientific discussion. Any attempt to do so invariably launches an avalanche of irrelevant non-science garbage.
"I do hope that you have finally acknowledged and personally come to terms with the fact that your guy Rossi is pushing fraudulent academic credentials."
First, Rossi is not "my guy". My sole purpose is to get to the truth of the SCIENTIFIC aspects of the question. At no point have I ever denied that Rossi had PARTIALLY fraudulent credentials. I simply consider that IRRELEVANT to getting to the bottom of the scientific question.
"As long as you agree that this is the case, I suppose I could see fit to stop beating the fake degree drum...
Gee, how gracious of you. You finally see that the horse is dead.
***Rossi claims he’s heated a factory for 2 years but none of the skeptics believe it because he won’t walk them over to it and show them. One of the worst things happening with e-cat is Rossi’s personality.No, it's because Rossi has been unable or unwilling to reproduce anything remotely like this claim.
All of Rossi's public demonstrations have serious shortcomings. They all rely on believing Rossi.
Rossi could prove the skeptics wrong at any time. He could have proven the skeptics wrong at any time in the last year. Many people have offered to help Rossi perform valid demonstrations to prove the skeptics wrong (including your friend Jed Rothwell). Rossi has consistently refused to do so.
There is one key point: We have no independent evidence that the E-Cat does anything interesting. Everything that seems to point to "anomolous heat" relies on trusting Rossi to be honest and competent. As long as we have to trust Rossi (who has given us plenty of reasons to doubt him), the skeptics are justified in being skeptical.
But the writeup captures the picture quite nicely.
LOL. So you finally figured out that "Leonardo Technologies" is a different entity than "Leonardo Corporation". You're about a month behind the curve.
"CLEARLY, this is not a factory, and I would imagine that Rossi does not have the required permits and licenses to run any sort of business from that apartment. Unfortunately, Miami-Dade don’t have the records search for that online, or I’d post the results here.
Uh, have you ever heard of a company whose corporate address is different from the manufacturing location?? There are hundreds, if not thousands of businesses where this is the case. My own company is currently establishing a secondary location which will be devoted entirely to manufacturing. When that move happens, the current facility will remain the R&D and corporate function site, and will remain the official business address of our firm
"Now, Kevmo and WW: you are always talking about, “the facts on the ground,” so here are some for you to sink your teeth into. Spin away!
Dude, you're shootin' blanks.
Seems like you still don’t get it. What do you mean by, “PARTIALLY fraudulent credentials?” Do you dispute that Kensington U. was a diploma mill? Do you dispute that Rossi, to this very day, states that his engineering degree was granted by Kensington U.? Which part of this do you dispute?
Sorry, but you’ve obviously never set up a business and dealt with occupational and business licensees.
Rossi has told the State of FL that his primary business location is his apartment. I believe that in Miami-Dade he has to have city and county occupational licenses as well. For what premises are these granted? How is he able to avoid code violations by registering in his apartment?
Does your current company claim to have been manufacturing and running “reactors” for the past two years in this secondary location you are referring to? No? Well, that’s EXACTLY what Rossi is claiming.
They [the skeptics] seem desperate for everyone to believe themAs opposed to you, who has posted every silly little blog entry that supports Rossi?
By the way, going back to your comments regarding your current company, is its corporate address a fifth-floor apartment, or are its premises correctly zoned? Does your current company have the required operating licenses for your local jurisdiction?
“FACTS ON THE GROUND,” W W. Facts on the ground.
Sorry you don’t want to acknowledge them, but you are going to have a hell of a time spinning them as positive or routine in any way. SCAM!
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