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The Fusion Revolution
The Renewable Energy Disaster ^ | Nov 2011 | Christopher Calder

Posted on 11/14/2011 11:34:43 PM PST by Kevmo



The Fusion Revolution


When the first human animal figured out how to make fire at will, life on earth changed forever. The fictional character Sherlock Holmes once said that "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Using that logic, I have come to the conclusion that fossil fuels will soon become obsolete, and human history will again be dramatically altered. A total switchover to fusion power will take decades, but basic economics tells us that fusion reactors will win in the marketplace over their more costly competitors. Imagine a clean new world where oil and coal are only used to make chemicals, and where every nation on earth has equal access to low cost energy. Scientist Andrea Rossi's "Energy Catalyzer" (E-Cat) pressure fusion reactor promises to accomplish all of this and more.


Rossi states that he uses micrometer grain sized nickel dust enriched to contain more of two useful isotopes, N-62 and N-64. The nickel is then processed to increase the number of surface tubercles (protrusions) to provide greater area for heat producing reactions with hydrogen gas under pressure. Secret catalysts are added to break apart molecular hydrogen gas (H2) into atomic hydrogen (H1), and to make nickel more receptive to hydrogen nuclei. It has been speculated that the catalysts are iron dust (about 10% by weight) and very fine carbon powder. The iron dust might be added to break apart H2 into H1, and the carbon powder added as a "scavenger" for contaminating oxygen, and perhaps for other, less obvious purposes. Rossi states that the total cost of nickel processing plus the catalyst adds just 10% to the total cost of the fuel. Heat is applied to the pressurized nickel-hydrogen mixture to get the reaction started. The low energy nuclear reactions (LENR) that result drives the nuclei of hydrogen atoms into the heart of nickel, turning small amounts of nickel isotopes N-62 and N-64 into the copper isotopes CU-63 and CU-65. Every 6 months the fuel load is refreshed and the old metallic fuel is sold as valuable scrap metal.


According to Rossi, in the latest E-Cat design the ordinary resistive style heating elements are quickly turned off as the reactor becomes self-sustaining, then switched on again for ten minutes every half hour to keep the units operating in a stable, safely productive zone of pressure and heat. If Rossi uses higher pressures to output greater heat and produce continuous, totally self-sustaining operation, E-Cat output can become unstable, releasing too much energy too quickly, resulting in explosion. Rossi states that he has purposely exploded dozens of E-Cats during stress tests in order to determine the exact limits of safe operation. Rossi therefore operates his first generation E-Cats in a powered down mode, finely balancing pressure and heat. Future E-Cat designs, perhaps incorporating new construction materials, different reactor shapes, and more refined microprocessor controls should result in improved performance over time. The first internal combustion engine looks like a joke compared to today's designs, and Rossi's first generation E-Cats may look very primitive compared to what will be available in the world marketplace in the year 2021.

Rossi claims that nickel-hydrogen fusion can give the world electricity at a cost of just one cent per kilowatt hour when produced by large scale LENR (low energy nuclear reaction) power plants. Even if we skeptically triple that cost to 3 cents per kilowatt hour, it is still an incredible bargain. We currently pay at least 40 cents per kilowatt hour for intermittent electricity produced by solar panels, 15 cents per kilowatt hour for unpredictable wind power electricity, and 8 cents per kilowatt hour for electricity produce by natural gas fired power plants. Rossi states that just one pound of nickel can unleash as much energy as burning 517,000 pounds of oil, which is approximately 1,590 barrels worth. Fortunately, the earth has enough easily mineable nickel to supply all of our energy needs for millions of years.


In 2007 Rossi asked Professor Sergio Focardi to help him test his E-Cat prototype and verify that it did not emit dangerous radiation. Conventional "hot" nuclear fusion using lasers to super-heat deuterium and tritium creates so much radiation that it would be impossible to shield in a small, portable device like the E-Cat. Through extensive testing the two scientists found no dangerous levels of radiation escaping from the E-Cat’s lead lined fusion chamber. No radioactive materials are used in the reactor's construction, and the temporary internal gamma ray radiation produced by pressure fusion stops when the reactor is turned off, leaving behind no residual radioactive elements and zero toxic waste. After four years of studying the E-Cat, Professor Sergio Focardi gleefully declared that "This is the greatest discovery in human history," and went on to say that "The results will be immense: clean energy at (almost) zero cost."
The men behind the most important invention of the 21st century


Left Picture - Rossi on left and Focardi on right
Middle Picture - Stremmenos and Rossi working together, Focardi by fan
Right Picture - Stremmenos on left, Rossi in middle, and very interested Chinese official, Hauard Chen, on right

________________________________________
Background

Andrea Rossi - Master of Science and Engineering from the Università Degli Studi Di Milan. His degree is also known as "Philosophy of Science and Engineering." It is a broad science and engineering degree, not a degree in classical philosophy. Andrea Rossi has been an accomplished engineer since age 22, starting and owning several energy related businesses.


Sergio Focardi - Professor Emeritus of Experimental Physics at the Università di Bologna and author of numerous books and scientific articles. Focardi has a history of researching nickel-hydrogen fusion even before teaming up with Andrea Rossi.


Christos Stremmenos - Former physics professor at the Università di Bologna and former Greek ambassador to Italy. Stremmenos has many social ties to the current Greek Government because of his history of valiant political opposition to the military dictatorship in Greece during the 1960s. Stremmenos researched nickel-hydrogen fusion before meeting Andrea Rossi.
________________________________________

Sometime in the year 2010, Andrea Rossi contacted Dr. Joseph Levi, a physics professor at the University of Bologna associated with the Italian National Institute of Nuclear Physics (INFN). After conducting preliminary tests in private, Levi set up an historic public demonstration on January 14, 2011, attended by 50 scientists from the University of Bologna and the INFN. The E-Cat produced 12.4 kilowatts of heat with an input of just 0.4 kilowatts, a gain of 31 times input power. In a third test conducted by Levi in which the E-Cat was setup to produce large amounts of hot water rather than steam, the E-Cat produced a minimum of 15 kilowatts of heat continuously for over 18 hours, and outputted peaks of heat up to 130 kilowatts. This experiment showed that a potential measuring error caused by the production of incompletely vaporized water, known as "wet steam", was not a factor in determining the E-Cat's energy output. Dr. Levi stated that "Now that I have seen the device work for so many hours, in my view all chemical energy sources are excluded.”

On March 29th, 2011, two Swedish scientists participated in a test of Rossi's new mini E-Cat, which produced over 4.4 kilowatts of heat from a volume of only 50 cubic centimeters (3.05 cubic inches), just one twentieth the size of the original one liter E-Cat prototype. Hanno Essén is an associate professor of theoretical physics at the Swedish Royal Institute of Technology, and ironically a former chairman of the Swedish Skeptics Society. Essén stated that "In some way a new kind of physics is taking place. It’s enigmatic, but probably no new laws of nature are involved. We believe it is possible to explain the process with known laws of nature.” He went on to say that "We checked everything that could be checked, and we could walk around freely and have a look at most of the equipment."

Sven Kullander, a Professor at Uppsala University and chairman of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences’ Energy Committee, also participated in the test. Kullander stated that "My belief that there is an energy development far beyond what one would expect has been strengthened significantly as I have had the opportunity to see the process for myself and perform measurements." Their group report stated that "Any chemical process for producing 25 kWh from any fuel in a 50 cm3 container can be ruled out. The only alternative explanation is that there is some kind of a nuclear process that gives rise to the measured energy production."

Sherlock Holmes would ask what are the odds that Rossi, Focardi, Levi, Essén, Kullander, Christos Stremmenos, and a dozen other top scientists could all go insane at the same time, deciding to throw away their reputations, careers, and scientific legacies by endorsing a fraudulent energy scheme. How could a public test closely observed by 50 scientists be faked? The E-Cat produced so much energy that if the power had come from the wall socket, the power cord would have melted. No tiny hidden battery could have possibly unleashed so much energy, and the small amount of hydrogen gas consumed during the reactor test was independently measured at less than 1 gram, thus simple combustion is ruled out as an energy source. Overall hydrogen consumption for the E-Cat is estimated at 0.01 grams of hydrogen to produce 10 kilowatt hours of heat. The only reasonable explanation for the excess energy produced is some form of low energy nuclear reaction (LENR). Thus, no matter how improbable it is that Rossi and others have discovered a new field of physics, it must be true according to the practical logic of Sherlock Holmes.


Unlike the notoriously flawed "cold fusion" experiments using deuterium and palladium conducted by Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann in 1989, Rossi’s invention is decidedly "hot" in that the reactor yields generous amounts of reliable heat. The reaction is so powerful that even a first year engineering student could easily measure the E-Cat’s healthy net energy gain. We therefore know with certainty that the E-Cat’s energy is real and not an illusion created by measuring error, a possibility that haunted the work of Pons and Fleischmann. Rossi’s initial scientific paper on the E-Cat was rejected by established journals because even Rossi himself could not come up with a sufficiently detailed explanation of how the E-Cat works. Building an E-Cat is easier than explaining what happens inside the E-Cat’s reactor core. Andrea Rossi's explanation below is from a recent EV World interview and has been edited for clarity.


"To make it simple, what happens is that nickel has a particularity that protons spread from it's surface with extreme efficiency very close to the nucleus, even if repelled by the so called coulomb barrier forces. When we inject protons of hydrogen at high pressures and temperatures, they go pretty close to the nucleus of the nickel. At those points we have nuclear effects that produce gamma rays which add more energy. We increase the pressure leading to extremely high pressures... similar to ones that happen inside White Dwarf stars. In that situation the so called Gamow Factor, which is a probabilistic calculation of the coulomb repelling forces, is overcome. At that point enough energy is produced to make it worth being recorded." - Andrea Rossi

Professor Christos Stremmenos has submitted his own ideas on how the E-Cat functions here. Purdue University Professor Yeong E. Kim's paper suggesting that Bose-Einstein theory may explain E-Cat phenomena can be found here. Remember that scientists and engineers do not invent the laws of nature and can only attempt to explain the functions of nature within the limitations of our mortal human abilities. Andrea Rossi himself has paid the University of Bologna to test the E-Cat and come up with their own theories on how it works in a year long study program to begin in November of 2011.

Much experimentation will be needed before the full potential of E-Cat technology is realized, and as always the original inventor’s work will be greatly improved upon by other scientists from around the world. As pressure fusion is a completely new, inherently nontoxic technology, there are no regulatory barriers to slow its rapid technological advance. The growth of E-Cat use may thus be as exponential in progression as the use of personal computers in the 1990s. E-Cats may end up being sold by large chain stores and familiar online retailers. No precious metals are used in the low cost, easy to manufacture E-Cats, and any company with the technological skills required to build an air conditioner can produce them in large numbers on assembly lines. That means even poor, relatively undeveloped countries will be able to manufacture them.

Finding safe ways to scale up E-Cat technology to the giant gigawatt size needed to replace major fossil fuel and fission nuclear power plants will take a few years of research by big corporations. If E-Cats turn out to be as economical as expected, they will eventually be used to power cars, trucks, trains, ships, aircraft, and spacecraft. Imagine a luxury sedan you could drive for thousands of miles without refueling, or a small aircraft you could fly from New York to Beijing nonstop at low cost.


The American based company, Ampenergo, will handle E-Cat sales and technology licensing contracts in the Western Hemisphere. A European based E-Cat licensing and manufacturing deal with the Greek company, Defkalion Green Technologies, has come into question after a dramatic argument with Rossi. Rossi accused Defkalion of not living up to their financial agreement with his own company, Leonardo Corporation, by not coming through with an expected lump sum payment. A conciliatory Defkalion claims that both Rossi and Defkalion are under great pressure from banks and major corporations interested in preserving our reliance on fossil fuels. See Defkalion's dramatic statement, as if lifted from a best selling novel, or even from the Keanu Reeves movie, Chain Reaction. Rossi states that "The issue (with Defkalion) is just financial, not personal, nor technological, nor scientific." Rossi has recently sold his own home in order to raise funds to finish his one megawatt E-Cat reactor, so all of his own personal chips are now on the table.


Defkalion states they are surging ahead with plans to mass produce their own unique version of E-Cats, which they call Hyperion Modules. [NEWS: See November 14th, 2011, Defkalion press release with pictures of their latest Hyperion Modules and lab equipment] Internet rumors suggest that Defkalion's fusion reactors perform even better than Rossi built E-Cats, and that Defkalion figured out their own "secret catalyst" without Rossi's help. I predict we will not know all of the real facts until a major motion picture is made of the birth of E-Cat technology, something along the lines of the 2010 movie, The Social Network, about the birth of Facebook. May I suggest to Hollywood movie moguls the working title, The New Fire. Dramatic tension continues to build, and the stakes could not be higher. With the world economy in shambles, E-Cat technology represents the only magic bullet solution that can lead us out of global financial and ecological calamity. What will happen next?

Rossi's recent October 6th public test in Bologna, Italy, of a single E-Cat reactor cell in "self-sustaining mode" produced energy for almost four hours with inconsequential energy input, which was carefully measured and subtracted from the energy output measurements. If the E-Cat was not producing heat from low energy nuclear reactions (LENR), then the constant flow of water would have cooled the E-Cat down to room temperature. Instead, the E-Cat maintained stable heat production and continued to boil water. As the E-Cat did not lose any weight during the test, chemical reactions can be ruled out as a source of the heat. Defkalion's public reaction (and here) to the October 6th test has added more drama and soap opera interest to this breaking news story.

An unnamed corporate or military customer (possibly DARPA or SPAWAR) tested Rossi's one megawatt (heat) E-Cat power plant on October 28th, 2011. The test was conducted by Domenico Fioravanti, who reportedly is a NATO colonel and engineer with 30 years of experience in thermodynamics. The reactor was run in half power self-sustain mode for over 5.5 hours. That means there was no energy input during 5.5 hours of continuous operation. "According to the customer’s controller, Domenico Fioravanti, the plant released 2,635 kWh during five and a half hours of self sustained mode, which is equivalent to an average power of 479 kilowatts."

Rossi states that the first E-Cat reactors he sells will be for heating and cooling, including a low cost home heating model, a 40 centimeter (15.75") cube weighing 60 kilograms (132 pounds). You can keep up with fast moving E-Cat events through e-catworld.com/ The Swedish engineering journal, NyTeknik, helped with the October 6th testing and has a news story published here, and a technical report here. Below is NyTeknik's graph of the October 6th E-Cat test with notations by Andrea Rossi.



If E-Cat technology works as promised, and as every public and private test to date indicates, then humans will gradually replace all fossil fuels with energy from nickel-hydrogen fusion. There will be no risk of radioactive pollution because E-Cats contain no radioactive or fissile materials. Fusion power will put an end to biofuels and all the environmental damage and food price hyperinflation they create. E-Cats will raise our standard of living by lowering the cost of food, shelter, clothing, consumer goods, transportation…everything.

Andrea Rossi has potential competition in the design of very large scale nuclear fusion power plants. Tri Alpha Energy uses boron and hydrogen as nuclear fuel, which breaks up into three helium-4 nuclei and three alpha particles, a process that produces little or no radioactive waste. Rossi's reactor must heat liquids to push turbines to make electricity. Tri Alpha's reactor can theoretically create electricity directly with no turbine required, increasing efficiency while reducing size and construction costs. Tri Alpha's concept is so appealing that famed Microsoft co-founder, Paul Allen, has invested millions of dollars into the highly secretive Rancho Santa Margarita based company.


If nuclear fusion does not work as hope, then the next obvious alternative is the Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor (LFTR), which is the safest, cleanest, and most efficient fission reactor design available. After the serious nuclear accidents in Japan, however, any development of LFTR technology or other new fission reactor design will be painfully slow, perhaps too slow to avoid further dramatic collapse of the world economies which rely so heavily on affordable energy. Let us all hope that nickel-hydrogen fusion does work as claimed, because billions of human lives will be saved by a major reduction in energy costs.


Christopher Calder email = archive100 AT inbox DOT com

Links:

Rossi's paper - "A new energy source from nuclear fusion"

Interview with Andrea Rossi

Andrea Rossi's website - "Journal of Nuclear Physics"

Rossi's patent application

main website, with overview of all major energy sources - The Renewable Energy Disaster






TOPICS: Business/Economy; Politics; Science
KEYWORDS: cmns; coldfusion; ecat; lenr
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To: Mycroft Holmes
Well, present it here then. You do the work you are asking me to do. You know what is required.

The above makes you seem quite the pompous ass. You seem to feel that WW is somehow required to serve you. How so? You are the one, among quite a few other flat-earthers, whose only contribution here is....well, you have no actual contribution that I can see. You are among the group bleating that Rossi has not provided you with any proofs (as if he has some obligation to do so). Well, the same goes for you, friend, where are your proofs that his claims are bogus? Wonder Warthog keeps trying to steer you to posted testing data. You answer him, repeatedly, with statememts like the above.

No matter, by all means, continue trolling, which is what many of the flat-earthers do on these e-cat threads, to one extent or another. I do not know the truth of it but we shall all know soon enough if this process and these devices are some very eloborate scam or if they will cheaply supply a significant portion of the world's energy requirements.

151 posted on 11/16/2011 12:40:15 PM PST by citizen (Romney and Perry and Cain! Oh my! All are leagues better than Comrade Obama.)
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To: Lx

Aside: The funny thing is that HVDC is a lower-loss transmission method with losses of only ~3% per 600 miles. No need for step-up transformers, no parasitic capacitance problems. Of course, we’re talking voltage in the thousands of volts, versus Edison’s day.


152 posted on 11/16/2011 12:48:53 PM PST by Lexinom
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To: Lx
What I'm wondering is whether what Edison's company was accused of doing was legal at the time.

I don't think there was a legal contract between Edison and Tesla either, and they later became business competitors, so who knows what accusations were made, and which ones were true.

Regardless, Tesla still got his big chance with Westinghouse and lost all the money. That's why I have doubts about Tesla being ripped off in the big scheme of things. It's too bad he didn't keep his focus on inventing, rather than competing with Edison in business. Tesla's bizarre behavior didn't help either.

153 posted on 11/16/2011 12:57:33 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Mycroft Holmes
I am a research scientist and I normally get paid for this kind of work. I am more than willing to to some Freep Open Source Science but I draw the line at graduate student gruntwork.

More pompous ass talk. I don't believe you take yourself that seriously, Sherlock! lolol

PS Not trying to start a pissing contest but you simply make people roll their eyes. Have a good day, friend.

154 posted on 11/16/2011 1:00:40 PM PST by citizen (Romney and Perry and Cain! Oh my! All are leagues better than Comrade Obama.)
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To: citizen
No problem on the pissing contest. From another, later thread after getting the data from kevmo (thanks!) I wrote back to him:

Has anyone ever operated an E-Cat for an extended period of time? Say, till it stopped operating for some reason yet to be determined? If yes, is there data?

Some observations. The calorimetry appears to be generally awful. I'd throw right out all of the phase change ones simply because you can have non-phase change measurements that aren't subject to dispute. That still leaves experiments where the excess energy relative to the input is interesting without having taken a detailed look at the possible stored energy. A detailed look is possible since that data is provided. Better heat measurements would be nice.

On a PR note, I'd lose all arguments of the form "how could your fool n scientists". As a scientist I would say that we are fooled pretty damn easily as a class. Nature is subtle, not deceptive and we aren't inclined to look for the lie. If I were an investor and could send one guy to examine the apparatus it would be the magician Penn Gillette. I'd tag along too of course, it's Italy.

Another thing I'd lose is the Conan-Doyle quote. When I have actually found myself in that situation in the past, having though I'd eliminated the possible, it was usually a failure of imagination. The more common error is to fail to see a possibility as existing at all and thus miss it.

Generally I'd avoid all appeals to authority as a form of argumentation. Some of the data looks pretty good. What is needed is more and better data to make the case. I trust the guys currently running the independent tests to do them honestly. Cases of individuals committing scientific fraud occur often enough that I have personally seen more than one. Groups of three I haven't seen or heard of yet so I am in principal happy with three guys doing independent testing. Most likely they are not colluding. Are there any plans to do more tests with better calorimetry?

This ends the quoted section.

I have actually been paid more than once by more than one company to analyze new technology. Numeric analysis of the latest and best data is possible and would take 2-3 days of hard cranking to do it right. Based on about 8 hours of serious reading of the data presented if I were working for a serious investor I would recommend hiring a technically savvy magician to evaluate the apparatus.

I might crank the numbers on the latest experiment, but it really is 20 hours work to determine if they really have something from the data presented. Any freep who wants a piece of the heavy lifting is more than welcome to freepmail me.

155 posted on 11/16/2011 1:32:45 PM PST by Mycroft Holmes (Returned for regrooving...)
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To: Moonman62
I agree with pretty much what you said. I've never heard that there was a contract between Tesla and Edison, when Tesla asked for his money, Edison supposedly said that Tesla didn't understand American humor.

One of the things Tesla was working on was the wireless transmission of power. (This matter is supposedly in dispute) His Wardenclyffe Tower was supposedly being built for wireless transmission or radio. When his investors found out that he planned on creating wireless un-metered power, his backers cut off funding.

Interesting read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wardenclyffe_Tower

Despite Tesla's serious eccentricities, he was quite the genius.

There is a story about him working on an electric car. The story goes that the car's designer had everything ready but didn't have the power source. So, he took Tesla to the equivalent of the local Radio Shack. He bought some parts and when the device was finished it was a small box with what looked like two copper rods sticking out plus the connection to the car's motor. Tesla is said to have pushed in the rods and said, "we have power" and the car ran. If you've ever read Atlas Shrugged" it sounds like the power system John Galt designed.

Now, I'm going from memory so take it for what it's worth.

156 posted on 11/16/2011 1:33:29 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Wonder Warthog

Pointing out that Rossi has a scam degree is indeed legitimate and critical discussion, if not directly scientific. I do hope that you have finally acknowledged and personally come to terms with the fact that your guy Rossi is pushing fraudulent academic credentials. As long as you agree that this is the case, I suppose I could see fit to stop beating the fake degree drum...


157 posted on 11/16/2011 1:35:50 PM PST by dinodino
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To: Kevmo

158 posted on 11/16/2011 1:36:57 PM PST by montyspython (This thread needs more cowbell)
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To: Kevmo

>> “Would it mean you think this is a chemical reaction?” <<

.
Definitely not.

Chemical reactions do not produce new elements. It just means that producing copper is not a very energetic fusion reaction. Of course, other elements were also produced. This needs some serious investment into research to find out exactly what is happening.


159 posted on 11/16/2011 2:02:07 PM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: Mycroft Holmes; AlanFletcher

The author is a freeper. But he doesn’t seem to post much.


160 posted on 11/16/2011 8:58:08 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Lexinom

Inability to lift the output above the noise band seems a major source of doubt for many.
***That’s fine. Just throw out those results for considering whether or not the effect is real.


161 posted on 11/16/2011 9:00:31 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo; AlanFletcher

It’s a nice piece of work, well done.


162 posted on 11/16/2011 9:03:04 PM PST by Mycroft Holmes (Returned for regrooving...)
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To: Mycroft Holmes

Has anyone ever operated an E-Cat for an extended period of time?
***Rossi claims he’s heated a factory for 2 years but none of the skeptics believe it because he won’t walk them over to it and show them. One of the worst things happening with e-cat is Rossi’s personality.

Say, till it stopped operating for some reason yet to be determined? If yes, is there data?
***I think the site you’re looking at has some of the best data. There are 2 other good places to check in.

LENR-CANR.org
http://www.lenr-canr.org/FilesByDate.htm

Vortex mailing list
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex- href=”mailto:l@eskimo.com”>l@eskimo.com/msg55409.html


163 posted on 11/16/2011 9:06:56 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo

Great, I’ll look at that stuff.


164 posted on 11/16/2011 9:08:59 PM PST by Mycroft Holmes (Returned for regrooving...)
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To: Mycroft Holmes

Another thing I’d lose is the Conan-Doyle quote. When I have actually found myself in that situation in the past, having though I’d eliminated the possible, it was usually a failure of imagination. The more common error is to fail to see a possibility as existing at all and thus miss it.
***I see you are a genuine inductive learner. You will enjoy this pursuit. I share your view of such a quote from a work of fiction as if it had some form of validity — which you have shown it actually does not.

Generally I’d avoid all appeals to authority as a form of argumentation.
***One of the things I would point out at this juncture is that I have caught a whole bunch of frantic skeptics using dozens of classic fallacies. They use them over & over again, even after having been pointed out. That is a major source of frustration.

Some of the data looks pretty good. What is needed is more and better data to make the case.
***Of course, that is what everyone wants. However, Rossi is not interested in scientific study. His interest is in generating enough data to have the customer sign on the dotted line and put cash across the table. That is a little bit lower of a threshold but it is a compelling one because the more e-cats are sold, the fewer are the objections until there’s a simple tipping point of acceptance. By having sold units all along before that tipping point, Rossi would have been ahead of the game.

I trust the guys currently running the independent tests to do them honestly. Cases of individuals committing scientific fraud occur often enough that I have personally seen more than one. Groups of three I haven’t seen or heard of yet so I am in principal happy with three guys doing independent testing. Most likely they are not colluding. Are there any plans to do more tests with better calorimetry?
***No. Rossi says he’s done testing, he’s selling units now.


165 posted on 11/16/2011 9:14:38 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo
Well, it's his business and the sooner units get into more hands the sooner we will know the truth. If I had what he claims to have I would be trying to ramp up quickly as well. My approach would be different but it's a choice and not at all indicative of fraud.

Didn't expect a reply to my comments, but appreciate it. WRT classic fallacies, I have seen much of that from both sides. As you know, truth does not have a side, and volume does not make an argument. I have seen some of the abuse you put up with and you have shown yourself to be a model of restraint.

166 posted on 11/16/2011 9:29:16 PM PST by Mycroft Holmes (Returned for regrooving...)
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To: aruanan; Wonder Warthog

The Great Pseudo Scam Sham Slam
Wednesday, November 16, 2011

http://freeenergytruth.blogspot.com/2011/11/great-pseudo-scam-sham-slam.html

We keep hearing the same thing from pseudosceptics about Rossi - “It’s a scam!”.

You will see the same breathless “It’s a scam!” proclamation written in the comments section of almost every eCat article or blog, but EVERY SINGLE ONE of the very few people saying it have the same three things in common - they never stop to explain how the “scam” is supposed to work, they appear have a clear establishment bias and to them Rossi is worthy of a much coveted place in Ocean’s 11.

They seem desperate for everyone to believe them, when most of us are content to see how this all plays out, having never invested a single penny. Why is this? There is not one single individual I know of that has a single penny invested in Rossi’s eCat yet the drooling pseudos would have us believe that Bernie Madoff has been re-incarnated and relocated to Italy and we’re all in desperate need of their protection from the evil eCat.

Have you noticed that the pseudosceptics do something else that’s very odd as well? They seem to manifest a bizarre and irrational concern for the financial well being of invisible investors whom they’ve never met and yet they are for some unexplainable reason, desperate to protect. Isn’t that just the queerest behaviour? Especially when the private central banks are successfully pulling the biggest con in decades on hundreds of millions of people right now. Are the sceptics trying to protect us from them? Are the scep-ticks doing anything about the Indian call centres who call you weekly to pretend your computer has a virus and then quickly take your credit card details? So what’s the obsession with Rossi all about then? Clearly they couldn’t give a toss about protecting people’s wallets - it’s a smokescreen for another agenda and people need to get wise to this.

The pseudos describe themselves as sceptics or “critical thinkers”, but what they forget is that to be a true critical thinker or sceptic involves being critical of your OWN hypothesis as well as others, otherwise we are ALL sceptics and the meaning of the term “sceptic” is rendered useless.

Their style of self-branding as “critical thinkers” also has an implicit declaration of superiority, by somehow implying that everyone else does not apply their own critical thinking processes.

Not once have the all seeing all knowing “critical thinkers” explained to us gullible mortals the explanations behind the accusations they throw at Rossi. I for one would like to know, so I don’t get conned.

The definition of a scam is: a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, especially for making a quick profit; swindle.

Whether the pseudosceptics like it or not, the fact remains that they no more know the truth than anyone else. If we are to belive that there is indeed proof of irregularities of one form or another then let’s hear it! Let’s have the hard evidence please.

Where are the double crossed investors? Where are the irate scammed customers? Where are the gullible venture capitalists who’ve been taken for a ride? Nowhere to be seen. Why has it taken Rossi so long to cash in on this? Wouldn’t he have cashed out at the very peak of the preceedings after the 1MW demo? That’s a bit odd isn’t it, but the pseudos don’t mention this.

Why are Defkalion still defending Rossi technology despite Rossi’s clear contempt for them? Are they in on it as well? Are we to assume that the various multinationals involved so far have not carried out due diligence? Is it conceivable that Focardi, Bianchini, Rossi wife, the milkman, the tramp in the park and other individuals have been conned for years, or are the pseudos saying that THEY are all in on the long con as well?

Why conduct 5 or so public demos, every time risking the whole thing on some over-observant
nosey bastard spotting the deliberate mistake? Why would you say you are going to demo a 1MW plant and then only demo a half megawatt? Why not go the whole hog and say you done a full 1MW? These questions are avoided by the “critical thinkers”.

Next time the pseudos say “scam”, ask them to provide proof since they are all such experts on how the great con is supposed to work, or maybe get them to explain how something so complex and underhand can be run for such a long time in the presence of so many highly educated and competent people. Ask them for the same thing they demand from believers - ask for a scientific and well thought out reasoning and dimes to dollars they can’t do it.

And what about all the bribes that Rossi is being accused of issuing? By my reckoning he’d have spent more on bribes than he could ever expect to get back from the first 2 years sales of eCats.

If the pseudos are to be believed Rossi has also overnight become the world’s most talented actor worthy of several Academy Awards, not to mention becoming a master at hiding giveaway body language in every one of his videos so far.

If you believe the pseudos then that’s quite a scam he’s got going there, not to mention he’s a helluva talented individual.

I don’t pretend to know exactly what is going on with the whole eCat thing and how it will all turn out in the end, but one thing is for sure - at this precise moment in time the scam hypothesis being touted is speculative crapola based on nothing more than a dripping mixture of unsubstantiated horse manure, establishment fear, bias and paranoia.


167 posted on 11/16/2011 10:09:56 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo

When the scam is revealed, you are going to be the poster child


168 posted on 11/16/2011 10:33:46 PM PST by dila813
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To: dila813

Rossi Energy Catalyzer: A No-Win Situation
by admin on November 15, 2011
http://rossienergycatalyzers.com/andrea-rossi/rossi-energy-catalyzer-a-no-win-situation

It is already a public knowledge that Rossi claims to have built a machine that allows reproduction of Rossi Energy Catalyzer on a larger scale. This is the machine that is expected to mass produce cheap, safe and clean energy. And a lot more energy that would help solve the energy crisis the world is experiencing. If Rossi’s discovery proves right, then the machine certainly changes everything. This is another story altogether. Let us talk about Andrea Rossi, meanwhile. The Italian inventor has been receiving unflattering comments about his actions even after his device celebrated its October 28 private test, which was a success. Many people claim that Rossi made a big show that fooled even the reliable scientists. Let us say that Rossi could be completely wrong with his research concerning Rossi Energy Catalyzer. What then? I don’t think that is fraudulent because he is not trying to get investors, instead he is trying to sell machines as what he always wants to tell us.

The greatest problem surrounding Rossi Energy Catalyzer is that it is a no-win situation. He is not willing to reveal the secret inside his reactor during the series of rigorous tests which makes the situation more complicated. Rossi also cannot explain his invention with accepted physics that prevents him from getting a patent. Clearly, Rossi is in a no-win situation. Rossi’s response is simple: You explain it, I am selling it.

So the big question is: What is accepted physics is incomplete and that Rossi is right with his discovery? Do we really need to refrain ourselves from embracing the cold fusion technology just because it failed before? There is always a second chance, right? And unlimited cheap energy is what the world needs now. Guess Rossi needs someone to explain the miraculous device ASAP.


169 posted on 11/16/2011 10:52:37 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo

Is that the factory that’s located in the fifth-floor apartment?


170 posted on 11/17/2011 4:21:10 AM PST by dinodino
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To: Kevmo; Johnny B.; Moonman62; Wonder Warthog; NewinTexsas; count-your-change

More info on Rossi’s “factory” in Florida:

According to the State of FL, there is no “Leonardo Technologies,” which is a name that Rossi has used repeatedly in press releases. Rather, the registered entity name is “Leonardo Corporation:”

http://www.sunbiz.org/scripts/cordet.exe?action=DETFIL&inq_doc_number=P10000091220&inq_came_from=NAMBWD&cor_web_names_seq_number=0000&names_name_ind=N&names_cor_number=644621&names_name_seq=0000&names_name_ind=N&names_comp_name=LEONARDOBATTAGLIA&names_filing_type=DOMP

Here is a link to the exact business location in Rossi’s filing:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1331+LINCOLN+RD.,+MIAMI+BEACH+FL+33139&hl=en&ll=25.790376,-80.142957&spn=0.00654,0.008776&sll=25.790395,-80.142985&hnear=1331+Lincoln+Rd,+Miami+Beach,+Florida+33139&t=m&z=17&vpsrc=0

CLEARLY, this is not a factory, and I would imagine that Rossi does not have the required permits and licenses to run any sort of business from that apartment. Unfortunately, Miami-Dade don’t have the records search for that online, or I’d post the results here.

Now, Kevmo and WW: you are always talking about, “the facts on the ground,” so here are some for you to sink your teeth into. Spin away!


171 posted on 11/17/2011 4:36:29 AM PST by dinodino
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To: dinodino
"Pointing out that Rossi has a scam degree is indeed legitimate and critical discussion, if not directly scientific.

The POINT was that these postings have almost NO scientific discussion. Any attempt to do so invariably launches an avalanche of irrelevant non-science garbage.

"I do hope that you have finally acknowledged and personally come to terms with the fact that your guy Rossi is pushing fraudulent academic credentials."

First, Rossi is not "my guy". My sole purpose is to get to the truth of the SCIENTIFIC aspects of the question. At no point have I ever denied that Rossi had PARTIALLY fraudulent credentials. I simply consider that IRRELEVANT to getting to the bottom of the scientific question.

"As long as you agree that this is the case, I suppose I could see fit to stop beating the fake degree drum...

Gee, how gracious of you. You finally see that the horse is dead.

172 posted on 11/17/2011 4:50:37 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Kevmo
***Rossi claims he’s heated a factory for 2 years but none of the skeptics believe it because he won’t walk them over to it and show them. One of the worst things happening with e-cat is Rossi’s personality.
No, it's because Rossi has been unable or unwilling to reproduce anything remotely like this claim.

All of Rossi's public demonstrations have serious shortcomings. They all rely on believing Rossi.

Rossi could prove the skeptics wrong at any time. He could have proven the skeptics wrong at any time in the last year. Many people have offered to help Rossi perform valid demonstrations to prove the skeptics wrong (including your friend Jed Rothwell). Rossi has consistently refused to do so.

There is one key point: We have no independent evidence that the E-Cat does anything interesting. Everything that seems to point to "anomolous heat" relies on trusting Rossi to be honest and competent. As long as we have to trust Rossi (who has given us plenty of reasons to doubt him), the skeptics are justified in being skeptical.

173 posted on 11/17/2011 4:52:42 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Kevmo; aruanan
I prefer the term "pathological skeptic" to "pseudoskeptic".

But the writeup captures the picture quite nicely.

174 posted on 11/17/2011 4:54:15 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: dinodino
"According to the State of FL, there is no “Leonardo Technologies,” which is a name that Rossi has used repeatedly in press releases. Rather, the registered entity name is “Leonardo Corporation:”"

LOL. So you finally figured out that "Leonardo Technologies" is a different entity than "Leonardo Corporation". You're about a month behind the curve.

"CLEARLY, this is not a factory, and I would imagine that Rossi does not have the required permits and licenses to run any sort of business from that apartment. Unfortunately, Miami-Dade don’t have the records search for that online, or I’d post the results here.

Uh, have you ever heard of a company whose corporate address is different from the manufacturing location?? There are hundreds, if not thousands of businesses where this is the case. My own company is currently establishing a secondary location which will be devoted entirely to manufacturing. When that move happens, the current facility will remain the R&D and corporate function site, and will remain the official business address of our firm

"Now, Kevmo and WW: you are always talking about, “the facts on the ground,” so here are some for you to sink your teeth into. Spin away!

Dude, you're shootin' blanks.

175 posted on 11/17/2011 5:02:43 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

Seems like you still don’t get it. What do you mean by, “PARTIALLY fraudulent credentials?” Do you dispute that Kensington U. was a diploma mill? Do you dispute that Rossi, to this very day, states that his engineering degree was granted by Kensington U.? Which part of this do you dispute?


176 posted on 11/17/2011 5:02:52 AM PST by dinodino
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To: Wonder Warthog

Sorry, but you’ve obviously never set up a business and dealt with occupational and business licensees.

Rossi has told the State of FL that his primary business location is his apartment. I believe that in Miami-Dade he has to have city and county occupational licenses as well. For what premises are these granted? How is he able to avoid code violations by registering in his apartment?

Does your current company claim to have been manufacturing and running “reactors” for the past two years in this secondary location you are referring to? No? Well, that’s EXACTLY what Rossi is claiming.


177 posted on 11/17/2011 5:08:48 AM PST by dinodino
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To: Kevmo
They [the skeptics] seem desperate for everyone to believe them
As opposed to you, who has posted every silly little blog entry that supports Rossi?
178 posted on 11/17/2011 5:11:57 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Wonder Warthog

By the way, going back to your comments regarding your current company, is its corporate address a fifth-floor apartment, or are its premises correctly zoned? Does your current company have the required operating licenses for your local jurisdiction?


179 posted on 11/17/2011 5:12:04 AM PST by dinodino
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To: Wonder Warthog; Kevmo

“FACTS ON THE GROUND,” W W. Facts on the ground.

Sorry you don’t want to acknowledge them, but you are going to have a hell of a time spinning them as positive or routine in any way. SCAM!


180 posted on 11/17/2011 5:14:03 AM PST by dinodino
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To: Kevmo

20 years ago, somebody set up a table top device that created a little extra heat. Today, lots of people set up table top devices that make a little extra heat. Not much of a revolution, if you ask me.


181 posted on 11/17/2011 5:17:07 AM PST by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: dinodino
"What do you mean by, “PARTIALLY fraudulent credentials?” Do you dispute that Kensington U. was a diploma mill? Do you dispute that Rossi, to this very day, states that his engineering degree was granted by Kensington U.? Which part of this do you dispute?

Uh, look up his Italian university degree. He has quite legitmate credentials aside from the Kensington U. version.

But you and your ilk simply ignore that part of the equation, posting ONLY items about "Kensington". You guys are as much if not more "con men" than Rossi.

182 posted on 11/17/2011 5:26:50 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: dinodino
"Sorry, but you’ve obviously never set up a business and dealt with occupational and business licensees."

True. My business partner handled that part of it.

"Rossi has told the State of FL that his primary business location is his apartment. I believe that in Miami-Dade he has to have city and county occupational licenses as well. For what premises are these granted? How is he able to avoid code violations by registering in his apartment?

Uh, the corporate office "is" usually considered the "primary business location".

"Does your current company claim to have been manufacturing and running “reactors” for the past two years in this secondary location you are referring to? No? Well, that’s EXACTLY what Rossi is claiming."

Well, we've certainly been manufacturing things for the past two years, and some of the components have indeed been reactors. And I think you will find that Rossi's statements have been "at his factory".

183 posted on 11/17/2011 5:34:22 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: dinodino
"By the way, going back to your comments regarding your current company, is its corporate address a fifth-floor apartment, or are its premises correctly zoned? Does your current company have the required operating licenses for your local jurisdiction?"

No, but it "is" in a residential neighborhood. Quite legally under existing local zoning laws. And yes, we have all the necessary documentation needed.

One of the companies we work closely with is located in Houston. If you go to the corporate offices, you will find it is in the middle of a residential neighborhood. The owner bought several houses next door to a strip mall. The houses contain different parts of the company's operations, and the warehouse space of the "strip mall" contains the heavy manufacturing equipment. If you drive through, you will NEVER in a million years guess that a quite large and profitable business office existed there.

Here's a clue......"appearance isn't everything", in fact "looks can be deceiving".

184 posted on 11/17/2011 5:40:38 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: dinodino
"By the way, going back to your comments regarding your current company, is its corporate address a fifth-floor apartment, or are its premises correctly zoned? Does your current company have the required operating licenses for your local jurisdiction?"

No, but it "is" in a residential neighborhood. Quite legally under existing local zoning laws. And yes, we have all the necessary documentation needed.

One of the companies we work closely with is located in Houston. If you go to the corporate offices, you will find it is in the middle of a residential neighborhood. The owner bought several houses next door to a strip mall. The houses contain different parts of the company's operations, and the warehouse space of the "strip mall" contains the heavy manufacturing equipment. If you drive through, you will NEVER in a million years guess that a quite large and profitable business office existed there.

Here's a clue......"appearance isn't everything", in fact "looks can be deceiving".

185 posted on 11/17/2011 5:40:40 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Kevmo
Where are the double crossed investors? Where are the irate scammed customers? Where are the gullible venture capitalists who’ve been taken for a ride? Nowhere to be seen. Why has it taken Rossi so long to cash in on this? Wouldn’t he have cashed out at the very peak of the preceedings after the 1MW demo? That’s a bit odd isn’t it, but the pseudos don’t mention this.
Since hearing about Rossi and his E-Cat, I've been researching known "energy" frauds. I've discovered two things:
  1. They typically can drag things out for years
  2. They never have an "exit strategy"
Steorn [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steorn] has been conning investors for a decade, to the tune of about $20 million.

Tilley [http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Tilley_Foundation,_Inc.] ran his scam for over six years, and conned investors out of millions. By the way, Sterling D. Allan, Rossi's partner, was an enthusiastic believer in Tilley's perpetual motion car (see http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Tilley/index.html for a ongoing list of articles. If you want a feel for how this scam played out, read the page from the bottom [oldest] to the top [newest].)

Priest [http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/050502/met_9322821.html] scammed companies including Blockbuster Video and Intel out of millions with nothing more than a hidden VCR and a half-mile-long spool of video cable. This article points out that big companies are often reluctant to prosecute scam artists because of the bad publicity associated with being shown to be chumps.

And, to show that this is nothing new: Keely [http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/keely/keely.htm shows that these energy scams were going on well over a century ago. It's almost scary how many similarities there are between Keely and Rossi.

186 posted on 11/17/2011 5:41:19 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: dinodino
"Sorry you don’t want to acknowledge them, but you are going to have a hell of a time spinning them as positive or routine in any way. SCAM!

WHERE do you get the idea that I haven't "acknowledged them"? The address is the address.

Again, this is OLD news. You're just moving from beating one dead horse for another.

And you're also nicely proving my point about your complete failure to contribute anything to the SCIENTIFIC discussion on these threads.

187 posted on 11/17/2011 5:44:56 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

So I’m not the only one to notice these characteristics of the Pooh-pooh Tribe.


188 posted on 11/17/2011 7:17:33 AM PST by aruanan
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To: Kevmo

It is a scam Kevmo, there are four groups of people here:
1. shills
2. suckers
3. marks
4. confidence men

Look at these companies, they were created of whole cloth ... they have no history

https://www.sos.nh.gov/corporate/soskb/Corp.asp?1114558

Ampenergo, Inc. - registered as foreign company even though Rossi said it is a US Company.

Registered in 4/6/2011 -— come on, people are fools

Has an address by one of Rossi’s buddies and then says the state of business is OH.

He says the corporation is in OH....

That record is ..
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:2980395240332762::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:1852164

Created 4/20/2009 ... again recent ... not been in business for any length of time to be even half of what Rossi has claimed.

Actually, the record in OH I believe is being hijacked by using the record in NH. That is why it has a different address than the OH record. But it says its state of business is OH.

WILLIAM F. BLAKE, JR.
4110 SUNSET BOULEVARD
STEUBENVILLE,OH 43952
Effective Date: 04/20/2009
Contact Status: Active


189 posted on 11/17/2011 7:59:10 AM PST by dila813
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To: Wonder Warthog

There is only ONE reason anyone would buy a fake diploma: to make other people think he has a legitimate diploma. Consequently, Rossi aims to defraud.


190 posted on 11/17/2011 9:25:14 AM PST by dinodino
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To: Wonder Warthog

“LOL. So you finally figured out that “Leonardo Technologies” is a different entity than “Leonardo Corporation”. You’re about a month behind the curve.”

Why is Rossi deliberately using a false name for his company? Could it be that he intends to deceive?


191 posted on 11/17/2011 9:28:55 AM PST by dinodino
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To: Wonder Warthog

You REALLY think that Rossi’s fifth floor apartment is zoned commercial? What a load. Bet you money that if I placed a call to Miami-Dade code enforcement they’d disagree with you.


192 posted on 11/17/2011 9:32:09 AM PST by dinodino
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To: Wonder Warthog

Hey, and I’ll bet you another thing: if I were to walk into the offices of the company you’re talking about, I will find all the required notices, permits, and licenses posted for public inspection, as required by law.

Can I walk into Rossi’s fifth floor apartment and see the same? Should I ask code enforcement to do that? If I cannot, why not?


193 posted on 11/17/2011 9:36:49 AM PST by dinodino
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To: Wonder Warthog

“Uh, the corporate office ‘is’ usually considered the ‘primary business location’”

False, in Rossi’s case. He claims to be running a manufacturing concern. The company’s core business activities are conducted in his factory. Where is the factory? At what address can the local authorities exercise their inspection rights?


194 posted on 11/17/2011 9:39:19 AM PST by dinodino
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To: dinodino
"There is only ONE reason anyone would buy a fake diploma: to make other people think he has a legitimate diploma. Consequently, Rossi aims to defraud.

Sorry, but unless you're clairvoyant, you cannot know that.

"Why is Rossi deliberately using a false name for his company? Could it be that he intends to deceive?"

What makes you think that it's a "false name"?? Rather than simply similar. As I understand it, the company he was a partner in (and worked for) was "Leonardo Technologies". He sold his share of that company to finance the E-Cat project. His new company is "Leonardo Corporation". There is nothing at all unusual about it.

"You REALLY think that Rossi’s fifth floor apartment is zoned commercial? What a load. Bet you money that if I placed a call to Miami-Dade code enforcement they’d disagree with you.

Neither I nor you know one way or another. There are "business apartments" as well as "residential apartments" in high-rises, some all one function, and some both, and many high-rises have businesses on the ground floor.

If you wanta call the Miami bureaucracy, have at it. You've been threatening to do that for probably six months.

"Can I walk into Rossi’s fifth floor apartment and see the same? Should I ask code enforcement to do that? If I cannot, why not?

Go for it.

"False, in Rossi’s case. He claims to be running a manufacturing concern. The company’s core business activities are conducted in his factory.

Complete BS. The Boeing Corporation has it's business address in Chicago. It has ZERO manufacturing plants/operations in Chicago.

"Where is the factory? At what address can the local authorities exercise their inspection rights?

At the listed business office, of course. Where they can ask the location of any manufacturing facilities.

And next time why not consolidate all your BS in one reply instead of a "free-association stream of consciousness".

195 posted on 11/17/2011 10:26:45 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

Are you mentally ill? I never even though of calling anyone in Miami until today. Where do you get this “threatening to do that for...six months stuff?”

I’ll be happy to consolidate my posts as soon as you and Kevmo consolidate all your bullsh*t Rossi scam threads into one single, master scam thread.


196 posted on 11/17/2011 11:07:47 AM PST by dinodino
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To: Wonder Warthog

Well, Professor, looks like you are flat wrong again. Here’s a link to Miami-Dade’s site, and if you pull up the map, you will see that Rossi’s building is zoned residential:

http://www.miamibeachfl.gov/planning/scroll.aspx?id=25704

Here’s what the County says on the subject:

“Home-Based Business

If you plan to conduct business from your home, you must check with the Zoning Department of the City or the County where you reside. You may not be allowed to conduct business in an area that is zoned residential. Miami-Dade County Code 8A.178.1”

You can see this here:

http://www.miamidade.gov/taxcollector/ol_home.asp#Restricted

Are you going to continue suggesting that Rossi’s little apartment is zoned commercial? Keep it up, it’s very amusing!


197 posted on 11/17/2011 11:19:15 AM PST by dinodino
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To: dinodino
"Are you mentally ill? I never even though of calling anyone in Miami until today. Where do you get this “threatening to do that for...six months stuff?”

LOL. Your memory is as bad as your logic. You replied to something from me with EXACTLY the same scenario as you have here.

I’ll be happy to consolidate my posts as soon as you and Kevmo consolidate all your bullsh*t Rossi scam threads into one single, master scam thread.

Since there is no mechanism for allowing a "single, master thread" on FR, your proposal appears impractical. Consolidating "replies" OTOH simply requires waiting a few minutes to collect your thoughts.

"If you plan to conduct business from your home, you must check with the Zoning Department of the City or the County where you reside. You may not be allowed to conduct business in an area that is zoned residential. Miami-Dade County Code 8A.178.1”

Note the word in bold....."may" is not "will". Evidently variances are not unknown.

But enough is enough. You've wasted enough of my time. Any future response from you other than about scientific or technical aspects will be ignored.

198 posted on 11/17/2011 12:43:45 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: dinodino

IF you have Rossi info, I’d be happy to contact the authorities in his area if he is oeprating a fusion reaction system in Miami, especially in a residential area. Nuclear materials are strictly regulated.


199 posted on 11/17/2011 3:01:30 PM PST by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: CodeToad

Well, I suppose at minimum his downstairs neighbor might want to know about it. Banging around upstairs is one thing, but if Rossi is shooting neutrons into his neighbors’ apartments, that’s quite another.

Seriously, his building is zoned multi-unit residential. There is ZERO chance that he is allowed to build nuclear reactors there.


200 posted on 11/17/2011 4:13:39 PM PST by dinodino
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