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Why Confederates are taken for granted! (Like conservatives today?)
Nolan Chart ^ | March 16, 2012 | Mark Vogl

Posted on 03/21/2012 7:21:07 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

The Confederates of the Southern movement are like the conservatives of the Republican Party, the leaders believe they have no choice!

The parallels occurring in America between the 2012 election year, what is occurring in America as a nation and in the South, and the events of 150 years ago are startling.

While most Americans have some knowledge of the GOP Primary, few have any idea of the Sesquicentennial (the 150th Anniversary of the Civil War) and the events occurring in the Southern movement. And yet, what is occurring is like mirror reflections of one another.

Let's start with what most people know about, the GOP primary. Mitt Romney is the sweetheart of the northeast Republicans. He is super rich, someone keenly involved in the international economy. He is a social liberal, the father of Romney Care, the proto type of Obama Care. He is not Christian, or at least his faith, Mormonism, is not Christian and this suits the northeast elite who revile the Christian faith. God has no place at the governing table. Heavily Catholic in the northeast, it is also heavily liberal. Abortion starts and ends there, along with feminism.

There is a strong Jewish constituency in the northeast, and though divided on many issues, many Jews see America as an extension of Israel. Not the other way around... American foreign policy revolves around Israel. We are in two wars, and threatening a third for Israel's security not our own.

Former Governor of a blue, dark blue state, Mitt Romney is keenly aware of all the above.

But Romney can't win a majority of Republican votes anywhere. He has spent maybe twenty million dollars and the best he can do is garner about 35% of the vote in any state. Why? Because the conservative core of the Party rejects him. It’s instinctual. It’s not Rush, or Hannity. They have no effect on this. Neither does Beck, a Mormon who I would bet is committed to Romney. Beck has backed away recently, but his fangs have already shown.

So if the conservative base will not support Romney in the Primaries how is it that the GOP elite think Romney can beat Obama? ( Maybe they don't, but that's for a different article. ) Because the Republican elite, the Neo Cons, the Karl Roves, the Bush's, et. el figure the conservatives have nowhere else to go. If Romney is the nominee, if he is forced on the party, they will have no choice but support him. Some conservatives may stay home, but the Republican elite just can't believe enough of the conservative base would stay home, or vote for Obama to give the Democrats the win. So conservatives...once again, as you have time and again, you will have to accept the lesser of two evils. You know like McCain and Bob Dole, this is the best we can do. Suck it up! ( an old Army expression.)

For most of us conservatives we know the story. Its burned in our political memories.

Well, the parallel is in the South. For most of the nation the Sesquicentennial doesn't mean much. Many Americans ancestors arrived after the war. Italians, central Europeans, Greeks, and almost all the Latino's have no direct connection to the war, or the division of the nation. In fact, most of these people have no connection to the founding of the nation. They came for material wealth, not liberty and freedom. In their mind, government is supposed to provide. The Tenth Amendment, what's that?

But in the South, where there is a tie to Robert E. Lee, the Confederacy, and southern nationalism, the Sesquicentennial is more than a minor occurrence. If you have ever seen the movie "Sweet Home Alabama" it accurately portrays what occurs in the South every year! The Sesquicentennial is NOT the only time reenactments occur, it’s just when the biggest ones do. A special effort is made.

Recent work at Texas A & M on genealogical formula's indicates that between 50 and 80 million Americans have blood that traces back to a Southern ancestor. That would be one sixth to one fourth of all Americans. Pretty sizeable crew.

But the Sesquicentennial is occurring during the Obama Presidency and there seems to be a real effort, though hidden and underground, to reduce the Southern Pride. Example; the Museum of the Confederacy (M.o.C.) Located in the heart of Richmond, the capitol of the Olde Confederacy, the Museum occupies prized ground that surrounding hospitals or other businesses want. The pressure has been on them a long time to get out. So, this year, the M.o.C. opens its first extension. Many of us believe the opening of the extensions will allow the Museum to leave Richmond eventually.

But the selection for the first opening is evidence that Yankee interests have invested the museum.

Is the first opening in the lovely Shenandoah where Jackson beat three Union armies in one campaign? No. Oh I know, it’s off Interstate 95 at Chancellorsville, the site of Lee's greatest victory! NO. OK, maybe up closer to Washington, D.C. on the Manassas battlefield where the Confederacy won two major battles? Nope. So where?

Appomattox, the place where General Lee surrendered the Army of Northern Virginia. You are kidding! For a Southerner, only Andersonville could be a worse location!

Nope, it's Appomattox. A location more than an hour from any interstate! A location not heavily visited. Great plan don't you think? Take the musuem out of Richmond and put it out in the middle of nowhere?

But the subtle attack on the Confederacy gets better. No Confederate flags will fly on poles outside the Museum of the Confederacy! Not one.

But hey, you Southerners dig into your pockets and shell out some money for the M.o.C.

The fight in the South goes well beyond this.

At THE CITADEL, in Charleston, South Carolina, where the cadets of this school fired the first shots of the war, this school played Dixie as its fight song at football games in the 70's. Confederate naval ensigns flew proudly on the RV's and cars outside the stadium at the cookouts before the game. Crimson red dominated the area surrounding the stadium

Crimson red still dominates, but it’s not the Confederate battle flag. And Dixie, well you don't hear that one anymore. THE CITADEL is not the only culprit. The University of Texas at Arlington, which used to be Arlington State College, and was known as the Rebels where Dixie was also played, is now the U.T.A. Mavericks. The effort to erase Southern history proceeds unabated. The heritage organizations responsible for defending the Cause, overwhelmed or apathetic shrink in inactivity. Oh yes, every once in awhile you will hear about a Court case. But with a potential base of 50 - 80 million Americans you would think they could make more than a whisper.

Where Gettysburg in Pennsylvania nets three hundred million in tourist monies every year, employing 6,000 people, battlefields in the South are hidden. When you drive into a Southern state go to their Visitor's center and look through the brochures for Maps about the Civil War. Probably won't find them. They are there but you have to ask at the counter. The north can prosper from the war, but the South...nope.

Groups like the Sons of Confederate Veterans and the United Daughters of the Confederacy treat Southern patriots like the GOP treats their conservative core. You have nowhere else to go so suck it up!

Ok, so why are you writing this article? Well Republicans remember you thought the conservatives would have no choice? If there is a parallel between the South and the GOP you better rethink that.

In the South, since the heritage organizations would not fight for the South, new groups have spontaneously arisen, and you know what. Much of the activists in these groups are members of the heritage organizations who are tired of inactivity and defeat without a fight. They are in the streets, and they call themselves Flaggers. They reject the passivity and leadership of the heritage organizations. They are causing more pressure on the enemies of the South, and getting more attention then anyone can believe. They are only a handful, but in a South tired of being kicked they are growing.

Well, the same could happen in November at the ballot box.

Sarah Palin is still with us. A candidacy by her would end Romney, nominee or not.

History does repeat itself...but this time the history is simultaneous. Patriotism is not dead. Individuals willing to fight for what they think is right, and who are tired of sorry leadership are on the move. Will it snowball? Let's watch.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: confederacy; elites; palin; romney; theyweredemocrats
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To: El Kabong1

FR will be a far better place when you are dealt with according to the standards of FR. I see lighting in your future.


51 posted on 03/24/2012 10:40:54 AM PDT by beandog (Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand)
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To: mac_truck

It seems only natural that a school called Dixie College would call itself the Rebels. You seem to find that name objectionable. Why?


52 posted on 03/24/2012 3:38:18 PM PDT by Fiji Hill (Deo Vindice!)
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To: Cheburashka

You are obviously a very well read man. I don’t dispute anything you have written. Accept I am not a Southern apologist. I do not need lectured on the facts of slavery, the CSA constitution, or the economic value of slave chattel. There are no converts to make or hostile’s to humble in me.

Feel vindicated. Thanks for the practice.

Freeing the slaves first is a rhetorical construct to illustrate that all the good that could have come from the war was lost because of slavery.

Had an assembly of states brought Washington DC to heel over the punitive anti-sectional tariffs and affirmed the ultimate natural right of self determination, we would not now face an overwhelmingly large Federal government hostile to liberty.

And because of the CW, this same Federal government has the precedent to freely use force against its own people.

The tiny slave owning elite of the cotton south, even though they lost the war and are now long dead and judged, screwed this country royal.

As a consequence, to use one of your phrases Cheburashka, and not a fictional Mr. Longstreet’s, it is we as freemen who “.....are on the wrong side of history.”

Those flipping evil slavers and that darn CSA Constitution.


53 posted on 03/24/2012 5:53:22 PM PDT by Lowell1775
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To: beandog

I don’t care for president Obama and didn’t vote for him during his election. I do think we have a better chance of replacing him by focusing on the economy and likely further rationing of healthcare, rather than by chasing a story about his birth status that might prove equally detrimental to someone we may support in the future.


54 posted on 03/24/2012 8:32:06 PM PDT by El Kabong1 (The Confederacy was nothing but treason writ large)
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To: mojitojoe

Were that the case, we would have at least two separate nations in the space now occupied by our United States.

Armed insurrection against the government is always treason. It’s only successful revolutionaries who get to avoid that label, and that’s not what happened to the CSA.


55 posted on 03/24/2012 8:32:18 PM PDT by El Kabong1 (The Confederacy was nothing but treason writ large)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I made no such claim, nor do I support Obama. I do believe we would be more successful in limiting him to one term in office by focusing on topics such as Obamacare and our struggling economy, rather than carrying on a doomed effort to attack his eligibility by birth.

We don’t have different goals, but it appears we will have to disagree on the best way to achieve them.


56 posted on 03/24/2012 8:42:41 PM PDT by El Kabong1 (The Confederacy was nothing but treason writ large)
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To: beandog

Not sure what you mean by “lighting in your future,” but FR is a conservative forum. A true conservative would never endorse armed treason against their own government. That’s where you and I must part ways.


57 posted on 03/24/2012 8:44:01 PM PDT by El Kabong1 (The Confederacy was nothing but treason writ large)
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To: El Kabong1

He/she probably meant “Lightning” in your future - a reference to banning people suspected of being trolls or retreads. There are some forks here who are downright incontinent about silencing dissenting opinion.


58 posted on 03/24/2012 8:51:23 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: rockrr

Thanks.


59 posted on 03/24/2012 9:04:49 PM PDT by El Kabong1 (The Confederacy was nothing but treason writ large)
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To: El Kabong1

“Armed insurrection against the government is always treason.”

That’s what King George III said about George Washington and the American rebels of 1776.


60 posted on 03/24/2012 11:08:56 PM PDT by Pelham (Marco Rubio, la raza trojan horse.)
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To: beandog

El Kabong1= zotted Non-Sequitur aka retread zotted Drennan Whyte aka re-retread zotted KStater aka re-re-tread zotted SOJOCO


61 posted on 03/25/2012 8:47:31 AM PDT by mojitojoe (American by birth. Southern by the grace of God. Conservative by reason and logic.)
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To: El Kabong1

Baiting... GET LOST RETREAD TROLL!


62 posted on 03/25/2012 8:49:42 AM PDT by mojitojoe (American by birth. Southern by the grace of God. Conservative by reason and logic.)
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To: El Kabong1
"The mistake of Reconstruction was in giving “The Lost Cause” any seeds or fertile soil in which to sprout. We'd be a far different and better nation now if the traitors had been dealt with properly."

You mean like concentration camps and Zyclon B?

63 posted on 03/25/2012 8:57:23 AM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: El Kabong1; Las Vegas Ron; onyx; LucyT; little jeremiah; Brown Deer; manc; central_va; Idabilly; ...
Photobucket
64 posted on 03/25/2012 9:02:24 AM PDT by mojitojoe (American by birth. Southern by the grace of God. Conservative by reason and logic.)
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To: mojitojoe

Alas my friend non sequitur........ where are you now?

Did you actually write such a horrible book? I still have other books you recommended


65 posted on 03/25/2012 9:06:57 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ..... Crucifixion is coming)
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To: El Kabong1

Hey NS back again. Same old NS.


66 posted on 03/25/2012 9:10:06 AM PDT by Red Steel
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To: iowamark
If you think that the Civil War was not about slavery, you need to read the secession declarations adopted by the various states. They make it quite clear that they were fighting for slavery.

You are liar and are misrepresenting history. Below is a link to the ordinances of secession for the states of the south. Assuming you have the mental capacity to do a word search, the letters "slave" appears three times, in Alabama, Texas and Virginia only.

Ordinances of Secession

Southern haters are liars and statists.

67 posted on 03/25/2012 9:27:00 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Lowell1775
Abe Lincoln wanted to ship them all back to Africa as they were in his mind too stupid to co-exist with whites

Not true. The bastard with the tall hat wanted to ship some of "them" to Haiti also, not just Liberia.

68 posted on 03/25/2012 9:30:57 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: El Kabong1; mojitojoe; little jeremiah
rather than by chasing a story about his birth status that might prove equally detrimental to someone we may support in the future.

Don't look now but your troll panties just fell down.

You just admitted obama is not eligible but it's okay because it might hurt us down the road if we pursue the point.

69 posted on 03/25/2012 9:38:45 AM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Rush Limbaugh = the Beethoven of talk radio - http://www.istandwithrush.org/)
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To: Sherman Logan
I will respond on such threads in such a way that no honest person reading the thread will be able to come away saying that all conservatives are Confed sympathizers.

What an arrogant, stupid statement. You are the Hero of Free Republic, a man on a mission. LOL.

70 posted on 03/25/2012 9:41:04 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Texas Fossil
BUT, other of my ancestors were born in Texas during the Republic or Texas. That ancestor also fought in the CW and was captured and sent to prison in NY. After the War he walked from NY back to Texas.

Do you know the name of the POW camp he was in? One of my ancestors was in the 16th Georgia Infantry, was captured at Cold Harbor, ended up in the Elmira POW camp in NY, and died of diphtheria a few months later.

71 posted on 03/25/2012 9:43:13 AM PDT by Stonewall Jackson ("I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy.")
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To: El Kabong1
Sorry, but the Confederacy was the greatest act of treason in the history of the United States.

What proves you point is all of the treason trials and executions there were post Civil War. Oh, wait there were no treason trials during reconstruction, never mind.

72 posted on 03/25/2012 9:46:05 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Stonewall Jackson

I don’t know but I can find out. Doubt there were many such camps in NY.


73 posted on 03/25/2012 10:58:26 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: central_va

The choice not to try the leaders of the Confederacy after the was was primarily political, and was conditioned upon their signing new pledges of allegiance to the U.S.

The old South should venerate Lincoln, since he was the one who laid the groundwork for reconciliation, rather than the legal retribution desired by the
radical reconstructionists.


74 posted on 03/25/2012 11:03:37 AM PDT by El Kabong1
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To: Liberty Valance

Not at all. I mean public trials of people like Davis, Lee, Longstreet, and the other bona fide leaders of the rebellion. Think Guy Fawkes - the real one.


75 posted on 03/25/2012 11:03:53 AM PDT by El Kabong1
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To: Pelham

It was true then as well. Washington had the advantage of being the victor in that particular contest, so we venerate his service. What do you think would have happened to him and the other Founding Fathers if the French and Hessians hadn’t supported his efforts and the revolution had been snuffed out by the British?

They’d all be nothing more than minor footnotes in British history.


76 posted on 03/25/2012 11:04:58 AM PDT by El Kabong1
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To: El Kabong1
I mean public trials of people like Davis, Lee, Longstreet, and the other bona fide leaders of the rebellion."

You want to dig them up and try them for things that happened 150 years ago? The South lost that war. 600,000 men on both sides lost their lives in the course of it. Sorry reconstruction didn't work out the way you wanted but we seem to have a current administration that is taking up your cause. You should be very happy with their policies.

77 posted on 03/25/2012 12:30:09 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: El Kabong1
The United States would have been far better served by holding every surviving Confederate officer accountable in the federal courts or military tribunals in the states of the rebellion, with punishment imposed according to the standards of the time.

The mistake of Reconstruction was in giving “The Lost Cause” any seeds or fertile soil in which to sprout. We'd be a far different and better nation now if the traitors had been dealt with properly.

Had that happened, Southern partisans may very well have turned to guerrilla warfare, and the fighting may have gone on for years afterwards.

78 posted on 03/25/2012 12:50:21 PM PDT by Fiji Hill (Deo Vindice!)
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To: central_va; El Kabong1
What proves you point is all of the treason trials and executions there were post Civil War. Oh, wait there were no treason trials during reconstruction, never mind.

Jefferson Davis and El Kabong1 are in agreement on the issue of treason trials. Davis wanted to be tried for treason so he could use the trial to argue his case, but the Yankees chickened out and never brought him to trial.

79 posted on 03/25/2012 12:58:40 PM PDT by Fiji Hill (Deo Vindice!)
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To: El Kabong1
Armed insurrection against the government is always treason.

Not necessarily. Surf over here for a powerful argument that armed insurrection against the government can sometimes be patriotic.

80 posted on 03/25/2012 1:06:05 PM PDT by Fiji Hill (Deo Vindice!)
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To: El Kabong1
It was true then as well. Washington had the advantage of being the victor in that particular contest, so we venerate his service. What do you think would have happened to him and the other Founding Fathers if the French and Hessians hadn’t supported his efforts and the revolution had been snuffed out by the British?

They’d all be nothing more than minor footnotes in British history.

No, Washington would be seen as an American Robin Hood, and tracts by James Madison and Alexander Hamilton would inspire the next revolt, led by Andrew Jackson in 1815, which would be successful.

The Founding Fathers would become folk heroes on both sides of the Atlantic and earn the attention of artists as romanticism swept through nineteenth-century Europe. In 1822, Gioacchino Rossini's new opera Tommaso Jefferson would open at the Real Teatro di San Carlo in Naples to a sellout crowd.

By the way, the Hessians fought for the British, not the Americans.

81 posted on 03/25/2012 1:41:42 PM PDT by Fiji Hill (Deo Vindice!)
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To: Fiji Hill

That’s the wonderful thing about history. We can each ponder the “what might have beens” at our leisure.

You might want to read a little about Baron Friedrich von Steuben, a Hessian General who trained Washington’s army.


82 posted on 03/25/2012 2:41:26 PM PDT by El Kabong1
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To: Fiji Hill

I have no disagreement with our Declaration, but still believe the historical difference between a Traitor and a Founding Father is based entirely on the outcome of the conflict.

At the time of the Declaration of Independence, approximately one-third of our proto-nation wanted independence, one-third (Tory) were loyal to Britain, and about one-third either didn’t care or were slaves.


83 posted on 03/25/2012 2:47:39 PM PDT by El Kabong1
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To: El Kabong1

Friedrich von Steuben was born in Magdeburg, in East Germany, and served in the Prussian army. I don’t believe he ever lived or served in Hessen.


84 posted on 03/25/2012 5:04:18 PM PDT by Fiji Hill (Deo Vindice!)
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To: central_va

So, if secession was not about slavery, what do you imagine that it was about?


85 posted on 03/25/2012 6:10:25 PM PDT by iowamark (The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves)
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To: Fiji Hill

You are correct. Thanks for the information.


86 posted on 03/25/2012 11:09:16 PM PDT by El Kabong1
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To: iowamark
So, if secession was not about slavery, what do you imagine that it was about?

States rights, self reliance and the 10th amendment. I know silly concepts by todays benchmark.

87 posted on 03/26/2012 3:44:17 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Pelham

notice how the usual suspects turn up all at once, spewing their usual anti Southerner crap?

Every time a thread pops up like this the usual handful turn up within an hour , actually less time and usually all at the same time.


88 posted on 03/26/2012 4:57:10 AM PDT by manc (Marriage is between one man and one woman,It's not a conservative view but a true American view)
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To: little jeremiah

oh the troll with no pals is back on under a different name yet again.

Seems that hope and change crap is not helping him get a job as he has too much time to post on here looking for these kind of threads.


89 posted on 03/26/2012 5:00:56 AM PDT by manc (Marriage is between one man and one woman,It's not a conservative view but a true American view)
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To: El Kabong1

do one, NS , you just cant help yourself , still no pals, sitting there looking for these kind of threads.

Stay up north and never come south as my battle flag will insult you.

Pathetic


90 posted on 03/26/2012 5:02:07 AM PDT by manc (Marriage is between one man and one woman,It's not a conservative view but a true American view)
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To: Red Steel

you can tell it no pals NS when he can’t help himself on these threads and has to reply to all posts to him.

His best threads are the B/C and the war for southern independence , and his first few posts are on those topics again.


91 posted on 03/26/2012 5:04:56 AM PDT by manc (Marriage is between one man and one woman,It's not a conservative view but a true American view)
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To: iowamark

you are aware that Lincoln himself said it was not about slavery and that it was about preserving the union and if he could not free one slave he would do so bla bla bla?

You are aware that the slavery issue came about when Britain and other Euro countries were looking to help the confederacy and you are aware why that issue was used at that time?


92 posted on 03/26/2012 5:08:09 AM PDT by manc (Marriage is between one man and one woman,It's not a conservative view but a true American view)
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To: manc

I have no idea what your post means, other than the fact that you’re still fighting the Civil War for some reason.

There’s a big difference between a conservative and an anarchist. Which one are you?


93 posted on 03/26/2012 10:02:32 AM PDT by El Kabong1
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To: El Kabong1

NS , you’re in CA now not KS .LOL

Anyway I wouldn’t bother replying to you then and I won’t now after this no matter how many times you reappear because you have no life or pals.


94 posted on 03/26/2012 10:05:58 AM PDT by manc (Marriage is between one man and one woman,It's not a conservative view but a true American view)
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To: manc; The Cajun; Cringing Negativism Network; little jeremiah; mojitojoe; beandog; bert; ...

So, did it occur to any of you that you might be dogging someone without merit or justification? Do you suppose that there might just be a possibility that this el kabong guy isn’t who you think it is and you are needlessly harassing him?

I recognize that the specter of Non Sequitur reduces most of y’all to quivering masses of jelly, but if you really thought this guy was him wouldn’t it be better to hit the abuse button and let the professionals do their job?

Nah, I guess it wouldn’t ;-)


95 posted on 03/26/2012 10:59:10 AM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: manc

I have no idea what “NS” refers to, but you’re correct that I now live in California. I’ve previously lived in Abilene, TX, and Winchester, VA, so I have some personal experience in the Old South.

I’m sorry if my opinions about the region’s history make you uncomfortable, but this is a conservative site and patriotism necessarily includes loyalty to our national government, no matter who the president might be at any given time.


96 posted on 03/26/2012 11:21:52 AM PDT by El Kabong1
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To: rockrr

ARF
This form the same person when we had a troll named Beckett08 and who I called out as a troll and you had to come as the knight in shining armor, only to make a fool of yourself a week later by her being proven to be a troll and a member of ANSWER.


97 posted on 03/26/2012 11:24:56 AM PDT by manc (Marriage is between one man and one woman,It's not a conservative view but a true American view)
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To: rockrr

oh and did it occur, yea it did but then when the same way of posting or the mass posting or the threads were chosen then yes it is NS and the troll can deny it as much as they want and you can be that knight as much as you want.


98 posted on 03/26/2012 11:27:46 AM PDT by manc (Marriage is between one man and one woman,It's not a conservative view but a true American view)
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To: central_va
"So, if secession was not about slavery, what do you imagine that it was about?"

States rights, self reliance and the 10th amendment. I know silly concepts by todays benchmark.

So, what offenses exactly did President Buchanan commit against "States rights, self reliance and the 10th amendment" to justify secession? (Surely you know that secession and the Confederacy happened long before Lincoln became President.)

99 posted on 03/26/2012 12:22:55 PM PDT by iowamark (The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves)
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To: manc

You never proved anything you dolt.


100 posted on 03/26/2012 12:39:54 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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