Posted on 01/08/2017 3:25:48 PM PST by huldah1776
WASHINGTON — According to some reports, America's fifth-generation stealth aircraft doesn't excel at dogfighting.
But fortunately, the F-35 Lightning II is not built for dogfighting.
While some analysts have argued that the air-to-air-combat capabilities of the F-35A won't match some of its peer aircraft, pilots who spoke to Business Insider pointed out that the US's fifth-generation fighter is designed in such a way that dogfighting may be an afterthought.
"If you were to engage an F-35 in say, a visual dogfight capability," US Air Force Brig. Gen. Scott Pleus began, "the capabilities of the F-35 are absolutely eye-watering compared to a fourth-generation fighter."
"The airplane has unbelievable maneuvering characteristics that make it completely undefeatable in an air-to-air environment," said Pleus, who has 153 flight hours in the F-35A and is the director of the F-35 integration office.
"So if it's a long-range contact, you'll never see me and you'll die, and if it's within visual-range contact you'll see me and you're gonna die and you're gonna die very quickly."
(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...
The 8th Air Force had many bad days and the losses were staggering if we consider it in today’s terms, but what the 8th Air Force represented was the will to win at all costs and as tragic as the losses were, there is little doubt that they broke the back of industrial Germany and greatly shortened the world.
One can argue endlessly that we should have employed different tactics or waited until fighter escort was available, but that was not the mindset of the day. WWII was a brutal chapter of human history, but it also represents the last war our nation truly fought to win at all costs - absolute victory. Today our warfighters are hamstrung by a spineless bunch of snowflakes as politicians and appointed administrators, feckless diplomats, a treacherous UN, and perhaps worst of all - a soft society with a whining media.
On a more positive note - wasn’t the P-51 an incredible bird? Consider the ramifications if it had been deployed in great numbers only a year earlier. In my opinion (former Army guy), outside of the two bombs dropped on Japan, it is likely the best single weapons system every deployed in human history. It was that good - devastatingly good. The F-15 had the same potential, but thankfully it was never embroiled in a total war. The P-51 was almost unstoppable by the end of the campaign and had we dedicated more of them to an anti-tank role we might have shortened the war in Europe even more (an often neglected argument). Close Air Support was not really a concept at the time, but it would have excelled in that role as well.
FRegards.
We have squandered tens of billions of dollars on inter-service politics and the F-35 might represent the pinnacle of such folly. Having a Marine version was a major mistake in that it heavily influenced the design of 95% of the other aircraft.
With that said, and I have certainly been critical, the jury will be out on the F-35 for a long time and it could end up being as good as some of the other aircraft initially thought to be dogs. I pray it is - we cannot afford to get it wrong.
Im not a cheerleader for the F-35, but the F-15 is reaching its end of life (50yo design, nearly 45 years in service). They have had at least two crashes due to structural failure.
30 April 2002 : F-15C-27-MC, 80-0022
2 November 2007 : F-15C-28-MC, 80-0034
Both lost due to structural failure.
My solution would be to cancel this over-cost program.
The Navy and Marines could upgrade the F-18 for carrier and close air support; the USAF could reopen the F-22 line for air superiority and use improved F-15s and F-16s for dual roles.
Revise the charter for the Army and allow them to use armed fixed wing aircraft and then give them the A-10s.
External weapons do indeed kill the whole stealth configuration.
F-15E could do it better for far less.
History repeats itself as the F-4 Phantom was not designed to have a gun. Back then they thought missiles were all that were ever going to be needed, The F-4D had a gun pod attached and the E models on had the gun designed into the airframe.
I guess none of these current crop of geniuses have ever studied the history of whatever it is they are currently developing. They are just too smart to ever learn from others.
“Lockheed officials have separately downplayed reports that the same F-35, flown by the same pilot, previously lost mock dogfights with the Goodyear Blimp and a beagle on a flying doghouse.”
Oh, that is just excellent. Wonderful post!!!
“History repeats itself as the F-4 Phantom was not designed to have a gun....I guess none of these current crop of geniuses have ever studied the history of whatever it is they are currently developing.”
This isn’t 1967. Missiles have improved somewhat in the last 50 years...and I write that as someone who fired AIM-7Es and AIM-9Ps. And yes, the AIM-7F I live fired left the rail stupid - never opened it’s eyes. But that was a live fire done some 30 years ago with a missile out of date when I fired it.
“We’ve come full circle with another “F-111” that tries to be all things to all services, but is a compromised multi-role, multi-mission aircraft with a wildly bloated price tag. Relearning old lessons.”
Well said and right on target - way too many cooks.
“As someone posted, the F-35 is the 21st century answer to the F-111.”
I first heard about the F-35 in 1988 or 1989 at a convention, the speaker was the project manager, might have been this pilot. That was >27 years ago - the F35 is a two century fighter.
The Mohawk and Caribou were the planes I went to school for at Ft. Eustis, VA. The Air Force stole our Caribous and forced us to disarm our Mohawks.
Look up the word “facetious”.
This is the same issue we saw with the F111. McNamara insisted that one plane could do it all. It was a dog, and only found use as an electronic warfare platform.
The AV-8B Day/Night Attack Harrier does not have an internal gun either, it carries the General Dynamics GAU-12/U Equalizer pod. The GAU-22/A is the latest application of the GAU-12/U, which is a four-barrel version designed for use on the F-35 Lightning II. The CTOL version of the aircraft will carry the gun internally, while the STOVL and CV versions use it as an external podded gun.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-12_Equalizer
In a recent trip to the Savannah Area I went to the "Mighty 8th" Museum. It was humbling, and thought provoking and you come out with a greater sense of honor for the dwindling number of the Mighty 8th that broke the Nazi's back.
It is a must see IMHO.....
See post 34. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3512083/posts?page=34#34
Yes, but their is a group of old-fart war bird guys that have an ME-109 and you can find the YouTube video where they say it is a better plane than the Mustang. However, thank G-d the ME-109 had a chitty landing gear, horrible canopy to see out of, a tight cabin described as a horrible place to die, and no range, or we'd all be speaking German.
The A-7 Corsair, A-4 Skyhawks and F-4 Phantoms, were all used by the Air Force (F-4, A-7) Navy(A-7, A-4, and F-4) and Marines(A-4, F-4)in multiple roles. It was good in all its roles and then some.
President Reagan used the General Dynamics F-111 “Aardvark” quite extensively during the 80’s as a medium-range interdictor and tactical strike aircraft that also filled the roles of strategic bomber, reconnaissance.
Absolutely true.
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