Posted on 05/15/2015 1:19:16 PM PDT by greeneyes
The Weekly Gardening Thread is a weekly gathering of folks that love soil, seeds and plants of all kinds. From complete newbies that are looking to start that first potted plant, to gardeners with some acreage, to Master Gardener level and beyond, we would love to hear from you. This thread is non-political, although you will find that most here are conservative folks.
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Hi everyone! Slinking into the back of the class! Last week, a bit after I posted the installment 7 on SOIL, I also posted a Master Gardener newsletter out of Tulsa. I’d like to note that for those who did not see it, it can be seen in last week’s thread http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3287788/posts at post 65.
THERE IS AN ARTICLE IN IT ABOUT USING A SOIL TEST!
I give my apologies to those I have been pinging directly to these Master Garden info posts, as I have lost the ping list I had compiled.
Here is the FINAL INSTALLMENT to my soil notes! Hope they are helpful!
Blessings to all gardeners here!
Fondly,
TEXOKIE
BEGIN Installment 8 on SOIL
[He showed us some pictures of problem fields/plants, and discussed the soil situation associated with the pictures. I was only able to grab a few examples.]
Nitrogen Deficit: foliage is yellow at the tip of oldest leaf
Phosphorus: 1)oversufficiency.
2)A deficiency in corn can show up as foliage turns purple on the edges. He stated that this is VERY rare these days.
Other Nutrients: if you test, will have special recommendations if there are some needed. Remember that problems with your plants can also be due to pests, etc. as well as the wrong soil profile.
FERTILIZING STRATEGIES
*ALWAYS TEST YOUR SOIL BEFORE YOU FERTILIZE!!!!
*Apply according to needs
*Avoid over or under applying a particular nutrient
*Recycle nutrients if possible – ie, lawn clippings, composting, conserving left over product, etc
USING THE RIGHT FERTILIZER
He showed a table here, with the N, P2O5, and K2O in %. These are numbers we see on fertilizer products, but have not always known what they mean. For example, 10/20/10 is the % of Nitrogen, Phosphate, and Potassium nutrients in a product. So are:
19/19/19/; 3/17/17; 29/3/4 ;31/0/4; 46/0/0 – urea; 18/46/0
10/20/10 is the most popular, but not necessarily what your soil actually needs. Remember that these days, typically you won’t need that much phosphorus, if any. His advice (here in Oklahoma, at least) is to think first of using a 31/0/4 product in many places. BUT TEST YOUR SOIL AND USE THE PRODUCT PROFILE THAT BEST FITS THE NEEDS OF YOUR SOIL!
He went through some SOIL TEST RESULTS
Ex 1: already high in P and K
Apply N fertilizer only
Urea, 46/0/0/; Ammonium Nitrate 34/0/0 are best to consider here. Also appropriate would be 29/3/4, 31/0/4 or similar, depending on what your source has available.
Ex. 2: Low in P and K
Use a complete fertilizer early in the year
19/19/19/ or 13/13/13 etc would be appropriate. This should build up the fertility of your soil. However, bear in mind that you ARE changing the profile of your soil, and after a few years, those levels can change! TEST AGAIN!!!!
ALWAYS TEST YOUR SOIL BEFORE YOU FERTILIZE!!!!!
HOW MUCH
*Apply according to what your soil test results outlines
*No more than 1 pound of Nitrogen per 1000 square feet (or 44 pounds per acre) per application
* P and K are most likely not needed for established lawns and gardens.
CALCULATE THE AMOUNT OF FERTILIZER NEEDED TO SUPPLY REQUIRED NUTRIENTS:
*1 POUND N/1000 SQU FT
* 19/19/19
*1 lb N x 100/19 = 5.3 lb fertilizer/1000 sq ft
25 lb covers 5000 sq ft
* What is the area of your garden?
* Use the same calculation for other nutrients and other fertilizers
*Do not apply everything you have if you don’t need to.
A 34 oz Coffee Can holds about 5.5 lbs of fertilizer.
A 13 oz Coffee Can holds about 2 lbs of fertilizer
HOW OFTEN??
Ask yourself these:
* Mulching or not?
* How often do you mow?
* 2-4 applications per year for N
* Once per year for P and K at the first time of the year – AFTER YOUR SOIL TEST RESULT!
He recommends use of a mulching lawn mower; don’t bag it and throw it away. If you bag, use the contents as compost/mulch
IMPLICATIONS TO OVER FERTILIZATION
*Salts build up in the soil media
*Alters the pH of the media
*Unbalanced growth
- More vegetative, less reproductive growth [he showed pix of anemic sweet potatoes in this condition with lush foliage and finger sized roots.]
- More disease and less winter-hardy
SALINITY
He showed pix of salinity examples out in the field. There was one picture of a field that had a wavy furrow character. Farmers had learned to plant in the burrow of the “wave” rather than the top of the “wave” because the salts were precipitating at the top of the “waves.”
Soil salts can conduct electricity more.
Gypsum can remedy increased/high salt in certain conditions
SOURCES OF SALT
* From the soil itself – Rain water can leach out salts
*Irrigation water – TEST YOUR WATER! Some ground waters are salinic.
* Fertilizers/chemicals – adequate soil test can mitigate this problem
* Compost or animal waste
Someone asked about leaves here, he said, “they’re good. No problem.”
TABLE OF ORGANIC SOURCES OF NUTRIENTS
This is a table describing the amounts of nutrients by percentage as if you were buying them from a package source. And in fact, you CAN buy them from a package source!
[I’m unable to duplicate this here, but here is the description, as best as I can manage:]
Headings: Left column heading: “Source” then “Total N%” then “Total P2O5%” then “Total K2O%”
First Row source data, followed by the percent data:
Cow poo: 1/1/2.5
Chick poo: 3/3/2.5
Alfalfa meal 2.5/.5/2
Blood meal 12/0/0
Fish meal 9/6/0
Bone meal 0/10/0
Wood ash 0/0/5
He cautions to definitely use compost, but even that, do not over apply. He says put your kitchen scraps into compost containers. Empty into the garden. [He seems to advocate the use of manure and compost components before they are completely rotted, but in “not over-applied” amounts. ]
One way to save your compost for rotting, is to take chicken wire, make a simple staked cage, put your scraps/cuttings/etc into it, and mix that with soil…. Or you can buy your compost! It can be purchased from composting facilities. Some municipalities actually have those, so you need to check for availability of that source.
Someone asked about adding enzymes to the compost pile.
He said some people inoculate with bacteria, and also worms, but was not familiar with an enzyme kind of treatment with respect to compost.
Discussion of leaves: Person asked, can you have too many leaves in your soil? No. But it is best to shred them. You can use them very well as mulch or in your compost pile.
Someone asked about the IRRIGATION WATER TEST
He pointed out that ponds and well waters should be tested. Check with your county ag agent. In order to properly obtain a sample, your agent may be able to provide a vessel. If not, here is how you will obtain the sample:
USE A CLEAN CONTAINER!!!
A drinking water bottle rinsed well with the test water several times is good.
The profile you want from your irrigation water is:
*low in total solution salts
*low in sodium
*low in chloride
Someone asked about the use of water softeners: Can you use that on your garden? NO! THERE ARE TOO MANY SALTS! It is best to use the softened water for drinking and not gardening. However, if you put your softened water through a reverse osmosis membrane to remove those salts, you can use it on your garden or plants.
Someone asked about the use of rain barrels, and harvesting rain. Our county agent stepped in and said we would be discussing that in a later session. The Botanic Garden does have an example of rain harvesting, so in general, it is a practice looked on favorably.
FUNGAL STRUCTURES [SHOUT OUT TO JRANDOMFREEPER!]
Someone [Guess who!] asked about the issue of how there are reports plants rely on the various fungal structures, and that it is not a good practice to till the soil. His reply:
The need is to manage the previous factors, such as the pH, nutrients, etc as covered by the soil test. He affirmed that overtilling is not recommended, but you DO need to till! Track your soil pH and that will keep your soil microbes happy. Those structures of concern WILL grow back, and be sure to add the nutrients and organic matter that build up your soil. Again, be sure to test and follow your plan for soil nutrient build up. He noted that it is very difficult if not impossible to directly manage the soil microbe profile, except by monitoring the pH, organic matter, etc.
If you balance the bacteria, then they can keep the adverse fungi and “bad” microbes in check. All of this will help keep your plants happy.
Someone [Texokie!] asked about the use of store-bought soil test kits. Our county agent stepped in and reported that there had been extensive testing at OSU to rate the ones available in the market. He said the general consensus is that most of them are very difficult to use and even more difficult to understand how to interpret what results are being given. They are not well calibrated. Results are often inconsistent, and “all over the place.” He said he had tried them also himself and found them hard to use and even more difficult to interpret. HOWEVER, that being said, if you do not have access to your county agent and a soil test for some reason, the kit is better than nothing…. But not much! LOL!
SUMMARY
* Soil properties are important for plant growth: pH, chemical, organic matter
*16 nutrients – N, Ph, K are the most important
* Soil in Oklahoma tends to be slightly acidic
*Soil testing is important for successful turf, garden, nursery, environments, and helps with the issues of money, nutrient application, etc
* A representative sample is needed to ensure reliable test results
*Balanced fertilizing program BASED ON A SOIL TEST is critical
*Misused fertilizers impact our environment (algal blooms in water bodies, etc.)
Hie thee down to a good garden center or nursery—or library—and look for a copy of the Ortho Garden Pest Book. They will usually have one chained to a podium for the public to use. It is a huge book, but very easy to use, as it is written for average homeowners, rather than professionals.
Naturally, it is geared toward pushing Ortho products, but sometimes it gives other alternatives; but, in any case, it will identify what’s bugging your plants, and give a decent description of what you’re dealing with.
Never mind their recommended chem solutions; just use it to find your problem pest, to use as a starting point for further research to find what you need to do to combat the specific problem..
Also, you said you ‘planted eyes’. How much potato was attached, or was it (common beginner mistake) almost just the eyes? Were the pieces allowed to callous over before planting? Were the potatoes used sound & healthy looking?
Usually, something like what you’re seeing is just a cleanup crew doing its job; not the killer itself which is almost always rot. Soil too cold; soil too wet; seed planted immediately, not cured after cutting; infected seed, etc.
Thank you for that info. I have planted potatoes before in a different location several years ago so I went from memory (maybe not a good idea) for how I prepped them before. I used store bought organic potatoes that were just starting to sprout. I cut pieces of potato that were about 1” square and had at lease 1 eye that was just sprouting. I left them up on the counter for 2 days to “cure” and then planted them about 2” deep. We’re in central Florida, so definitely not too cold and the soil is pretty well drained.
Pinging my somewhat resurrected MG NOTE ping list. If you wish to be pinged directly to the MG notes, please let me know!
add me.
Thanks, add me. :o)
Well I burned pretty much the whole day at that sale. Most of the machinery went pretty cheap with the exception of the two moldboard plows that I was interested in. I bought a dozen or so long-handle garden tools, rakes, shovels, etc. for cheap money so the day wasn’t a total waste.
Good meaningful questions which get to the 'heart of the matter'.
All cuts on the potato should be exposed to sun to callous over (scab on the cuts).
I like to include at least a 2 by 2 inch piece of the original potato along with the 'eye', and thuroughly calloused by exposure to sunlight.
Potatos are a member of the solanacious family (solar = sun light) as are peppers , tomato , eggplant , etc.
Crop rotation should be practiced so as not to plant solancious plants where other had been planted in the last 3 - 4 years; otherwise there may be pest/disease in the soil.
Yeah, 2X2 is good. I usually figure on at least the size of a small egg, and a minimum of 2 eyes.
There is one butterfly milkweed with a latex sap which can blind you if it accidently splashes into the eye. Be careful if you are tempted to use the blooms in cut flower arrangements.
Glad you got something out of it. I never have any luck at those things, so I gave up on estate sales a long time ago.
Thanks so much for all the of the info on soils and fertilization. I really appreciate your efforts.
Thanks for liking the thread. It makes me feel appreciated, but it’s the other people who post that really get the credit for making things interesting. All I do is just start the conversation.
We are having a cool spell here right at 49 degrees right now. Glad I didn’t transplant the tomatoes into the garden yet. They are all grouped close to the house where things are a bit warmer.
Thanks for the pretty pics. Hubby is one the mend and doing more and more. Rain delayed my finishing his garden patch for him and by the time it was dry enough to work, he was able to finish it up.
We already need to mow again, but it was raining today. I at least got the patio swept before the rain hit. It was covered with stuff from a Maple tree. Love the tree-just wish it wasn’t so close to the patio.
What does the beetle look like?
I have lettuce and spinach in May and sometimes carrots.
We’ve always been zone 5, up until a couple of years ago when the new USDA climate zones came out and moved us to zone 6.
I guess that’s the result of believing in Globull Warming. Immediately we began having weather worse than usual. I guess Mother Nature had a statement to make. LOL
I have zero experience with milkweed. I am sorry that I don’t have an answer to your question. Maybe someone else will pick up your question and be able to help.
TIK, do you know anything about this issue? Thanks
You are so welcome!
I have very little experience with milkweed, as it has been relegated to hedgerows and uncultivated farmland, where it semms to thrive.
Texokie has stated that there are some 85 varieties of milkweed in his latest Master Gardner newsletter that are native to Oklahoma.
It seems that only certain varieties of milkweed attrack only certain species of butterflies
A lepidopterologist(studies butterflys, habitat and behavior) would be at college or univeristy entomology dept.; a lepidopterist is strictly a collector of butterflys.
Almost all my experience is with horticulture and problems ,diseases and pest control - propogation of weeds (misplaced flowering plants) is not my forte.
A university lepidopterist would be the best and most knowledgeable source of information on milkweed propagation and habitat, and about butteflys .
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