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In the Darwin Debate, How Long Before the Tide Turns in Favor of Intelligent Design?
Evolution News and Views ^ | January 19, 2015 | Casey Luskin

Posted on 01/20/2015 5:45:16 AM PST by Heartlander

In the Darwin Debate, How Long Before the Tide Turns in Favor of Intelligent Design?

Casey Luskin January 19, 2015 4:36 PM | Permalink

A student emails me to ask how long it will be before the "tide turns from Darwinism to ID." He follows the debate over intelligent design and is aware that the Darwin lobby's rhetoric typically fails to address ID's actual arguments (which are scientific in nature), instead focusing on personal attacks or trying to claim ID is religion. This student feels it is obvious that ID has the upper hand in the argument, but wonders when the majority opinion will also recognize this.

I agree that in the long-term, the position of the anti-ID lobby is simply not sustainable. You can't keep claiming forever that ID is just "religion" or "politics" when the ID camp is producing legitimate science, and even non-ID scientists keep making discoveries that confirm the predictions of ID. Or I suppose you can keep claiming whatever you want, but it will become increasingly difficult to get people to believe you.

What are my reasons for optimism? One of the strongest signs is that in head-to-head debates over ID and Darwinism, the ID proponent generally wins hands down. In that respect, we've had many key intellectual victories in recent years, including:

I could list many more successes, as well as ways that we could be hoping for more and doing more, but the point is this: ID has had plenty of intellectual "wins" of late, and the future is bright. The problem is that much of the public isn't hearing about these wins for ID.

For the time being, ID critics control the microphone. They generally determine what students hear in the classroom, what the public reads in the media, and what scientists read in the journals. They can often prevent the public, students, and scientists from hearing the facts about ID. This has a major impact on the way many people perceive this debate because they can't make a fair evaluation when they are only hearing one side of the issue, dominated by spin and caricature. This is one of the biggest obstacles facing ID.

That's why a lot of our energy in the ID movement is devoted to "getting the word out," broadcasting the facts and correcting misinformation from our critics. ID blogs like Uncommon Descent and Evolution News & Views do a great job of this (if we do say so ourselves). There are other good sources out there as well.

The Summer Seminar on ID, organized by Discovery Institute's Center for Science & Culture, has now graduated some 250 students, many of whom are going on to get PhDs and seed the next generation of scientists. There's a lot to look forward to.

Don't expect a revolution overnight. We are in this for the long haul, recognizing that it can take time for the truth to slip past the checkpoints that the Darwin lobby sets up to keep the public uninformed. In the end, though, I'm optimistic because the fundamentals of ID -- the science underlying the inference to design in nature -- are sound. The truth will win out, though it may tarry in doing so. Or to put it another way, the tide of ID is already well on its way in. We need to focus on telling people about it.



TOPICS: Education; Reference; Science; Society
KEYWORDS: creation; creationism; evolution; youngearth
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To: philoginist
On a logical basis, if there was an infinite past to nature we would never reach ‘here and now’. Nature must have a beginning for time to progress – and an infinite past would never start the stopwatch. An infinite amount of universes, or the multiverse, does not solve the problem either - nature still needs a beginning because it exists within time. Furthermore, we know that natural processes cannot create natural processes (circulus in probando).

Beyond this distraction, you now state – “ I know that mind cannot come from anything without mind.” So do you believe in an ‘ultimate designer’ for life and the universe?

61 posted on 01/20/2015 12:02:26 PM PST by Heartlander (Prediction: Increasingly, logic will be seen as a covert form of theism. - Denyse OÂ’Leary)
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To: Mr. Lucky

“How does the Theory of Evolution address the first occurrence of life?”

It would be a physico-chemical event that is selected due to it’s self propagation.

The idea that evolution doesn’t address the very beginnings of life is not true.

Yes, I know evolutionists of all stripes deny that, but it is 1) a cop out in their part to avoid what they feel is difficult and 2) an example that they don’t understand their own theory or implications of it.

The second is the more important of the two.

It is always said that abiogenesis is outside the theory of evolution.

But the whole concept of abiogenesis is just another iteration on vitalism, which is what evolution was supposedly doing away with.


62 posted on 01/20/2015 12:38:53 PM PST by ifinnegan
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To: ifinnegan

Excuse my saying so, but obviously the origin of life can be traced to a physic-chemical event. The dispute addressed in this article is whether that event occurred spontaneously or by design.


63 posted on 01/20/2015 12:48:28 PM PST by Mr. Lucky
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To: Mr. Lucky

“Excuse my saying so, but obviously the origin of life can be traced to a physic-chemical event. The dispute addressed in this article is whether that event occurred spontaneously or by design.”

Yes. But that is true of any and all of the changes that occur over time in the theory of common descent.

I am not sure what you are addressing or what point you are making.

I thought you were arguing against what is called abiogenesis being addressed by evolutionary theory.


64 posted on 01/20/2015 12:53:11 PM PST by ifinnegan
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To: ifinnegan

There appears to be no testable explanation as to how abiotic chemicals “evolved” into molecules, rather than the expression of a belief that such an event must have occurred.


65 posted on 01/20/2015 12:59:17 PM PST by Mr. Lucky
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To: Chuckster

“...decide that the space alien genetic engineering theory can be successfully promoted as an alternative...”

I don’t know if Francis Crick (co-discover of DNA) was a progressive - but that’s what he figured DNA came from.


66 posted on 01/20/2015 1:01:40 PM PST by 21twelve (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts 2013 is 1933 REBORN)
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To: Mr. Lucky

There are plausible hypotheses.


67 posted on 01/20/2015 1:05:45 PM PST by ifinnegan
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To: Mr. Lucky; ifinnegan
Regardless of abiogenesis, we know DNA has the following:

1. Functional Information
2. Encoder
3. Error Correction
4. Decoder
How could such a system form randomly without any intelligence, and totally unguided?

What would come first - the encoder, error correction, or the decoder? How and where did the functional information originate?

Furthermore, DNA contains multi-layered information that reads both forward and backwards - DNA stores data more efficiently than anything we've created - and a majority of DNA contains metainformation (information about how to use the information in the context of the related data). The design inference is obvious.

68 posted on 01/20/2015 1:09:16 PM PST by Heartlander (Prediction: Increasingly, logic will be seen as a covert form of theism. - Denyse OÂ’Leary)
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To: Heartlander

There was a thread on FR a year or so ago about the discovery of another layer, flipped side, - something that was just discovered - which doubled the amount of information the DNA code actually holds.

Found it:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3101450/posts


69 posted on 01/20/2015 1:16:43 PM PST by 21twelve (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts 2013 is 1933 REBORN)
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To: Heartlander

Nice post. Informed and well presented.

I think in the materialist paradigm the functional information would come first.

The functional information in this view is inherent in the structure.

I believe that the encoder and decoder functions would not be considered as separate and would come third, with the encoder being second, but second not with an encoding function, but with self propagating function.

And in this we are talking about RNA, not DNA.

Your comments about DNA are true and it is amazing. It is even more so with RNA, which is very important in cell function.

Adherents of evolutionism really don’t seem to appreciate the complexity and what I’ll call majesty that life presents.


70 posted on 01/20/2015 1:36:53 PM PST by ifinnegan
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To: microgood
But science has no clue how life began on this world and never will.

I wouldn’t stake my life on that. "But one of the most prominent young physicists in the world has claimed...life is as inevitable as inorganic matter. The bold new theory suggests that atoms, when subjected to energy, will always form some form of life - and it may mean we are part of a universe teeming with other organisms.” More at http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2875874/Life-Earth-wasn-t-luck-development-inevitable-rocks-rolling-hill-claims-physicist.html.

71 posted on 01/20/2015 1:40:35 PM PST by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: tophat9000

“There is popular common belief that man uses only 10 to 15 % of the brain. But from an natural selection evolutionary viewpoint you would not evolve something that is not used. One or the other should not be true”

And the popular common belief is the one that’s not true: Humans Already Use Way, Way More Than 10% of Their Brains - The Atlantic
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/07/you-already-use-way-way-more-than-10-percent-of-your-brain/374520/

(Actually, it’s not really true that you wouldn’t evolve something that’s not used. It appears that some traits just “come along” with other useful ones—i.e., if you evolve the useful A, you get the meaningless B.


72 posted on 01/20/2015 1:44:43 PM PST by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: bray

“And the starting line has nothing to do with the Indianapolis 500.”

It has something to do with it, but you don’t need to explain the starting line in order to understand who won the race and why.


73 posted on 01/20/2015 1:48:03 PM PST by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: Heartlander
In the Darwin Debate, How Long Before the Tide Turns in Favor of Intelligent Design?

God only knows.

74 posted on 01/20/2015 1:52:59 PM PST by upsdriver (Palin/West '16)
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To: Mr. Lucky

Look at the Fundamentalists get their panties in a wad as someone points out the biggest hole in evolution. How did it start. You used to say it was a primordial soup until some scientist figured out that was completely impossible. You guys are so amazing with your level of faith in a myth.


75 posted on 01/20/2015 2:12:35 PM PST by bray (Sharpton is a murderer)
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical

The oldest trick in the book, dodge and belittle since you know there is no answer. Just ignore the gorilla in the room while I show you these nice rocks. None of them are of a transitory animal which there should be billions, but look at these nice old rocks to prove there is no creator.

Why don’t you be a real scientist and try to find holes in the theory, there are gaping ones if you bothered to look.


76 posted on 01/20/2015 2:16:08 PM PST by bray (Sharpton is a murderer)
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To: Heartlander

Thanks for that quote from PZ Meyers

I don’t know who Meyers is, but I am glad to hear someone saying what I’ve been pointing out for a while and UN almost the exact same words.


77 posted on 01/20/2015 2:29:27 PM PST by ifinnegan
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical

It appears that some traits just “come along” with other useful ones—

that would not fit in to Darwinian evolution theory which I believe favors gradual mutation to a form...not spontaneous new fully functional forms occurring....

You’re saying basically that an animal could randomly sprout fully functional wings just because.....

Or a monkey, could randomly be born the next Einstein ?..

I think you would agree Darwinian evolution has to have a range or scope limitation of the viable mutation there can any given generation?

Else Darwinian evolution would have to encompass the remote possibility of self aware man spontaneously rising from dirt in one step..

And your back to the story of Adam being viable inside Darwinian evolution theory...

So given the atlantic article.. just how much of a brain capacity change is viable within evolutionary theory vs. What they think we use and dont use...


78 posted on 01/20/2015 2:34:39 PM PST by tophat9000 (An Eye for an Eye, a Word for a Word...nothing more)
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical

It appears that some traits just “come along” with other useful ones—

that would not fit in to Darwinian evolution theory which I believe favors gradual mutation to a form...not spontaneous new fully functional forms occurring....

You’re saying basically that an animal could randomly sprout fully functional wings just because.....

Or a monkey, could randomly be born the next Einstein ?..

I think you would agree Darwinian evolution has to have a range or scope limitation of the viable mutation there can any given generation?

Else Darwinian evolution would have to encompass the remote possibility of self aware man spontaneously rising from dirt in one step..

And your back to the story of Adam being viable inside Darwinian evolution theory...

So given the atlantic article.. just how much of a brain capacity change is viable within evolutionary theory vs. What they think we use and dont use...


79 posted on 01/20/2015 2:34:39 PM PST by tophat9000 (An Eye for an Eye, a Word for a Word...nothing more)
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To: bray
Why don’t you be a real scientist and try to find holes in the theory, there are gaping ones if you bothered to look.

That is exactly right - When did that change? Darwin was wrong, but at least he listed his errata - That is what science does... or used to do anyway...

80 posted on 01/20/2015 2:38:57 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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