Skip to comments.Open Note to Rush Limbaugh re Penn State
Posted on 08/14/2012 11:51:55 AM PDT by Yaelle
Rush, I just heard you saying that you thought punishing the university itself is going too far at Penn State.
Yes, it appears that one evil man brought the whole thing down, but remember that to cover up evil is to promote it.
Everyone up in the highest administration must have known about Sandusky. No one alerted law enforcement. They "let him retire early.". No other football teams seemed to hire him, which if people knew nothing would defy logic. Everyone knew. The heads of the university knew.
They allowed him full access to their property and facilities. They did not alert the authorities to a known pedophile who was running a charity giving him access to the most defenseless children.
The heads of the university allowed these rapes to continue, so, sadly, to prevent anything like this happening again, the whole university is being brought down. By those who stayed silent rather than doing the right thing.
Of all people, I'd have thought you would understand the selfless bravery that discovering evil should have inspired and indeed is required, in the heads of a great educational institution.
Guilt by association, then ?
I hadn't considered the financial angle. The engineering school that I attended eventually went bankrupt. It was accredited right up until the end. Given Pennsylvania State Universities endowments, I don't think that this is a financial problem that they can't weather. In fact the way the fines are being levied, I'm not sure that the Athletic Department is even going to be seriously hurt.
THAT is the investigation I'd like to see. Along with a very public investigation to The Second Mile Foundation.
The more I think about it - how sick do you have to be when you’re one of the most powerful men in an organization like this and you get up and go to work everyday and know that a retired colleague who rapes little boys at your work place is allowed to walk freely around the place (even with children!)?
“Im just looking at the facts of this case and theres so much that stinks here that needs to be looked into.”
Would you agree, then, that Paterno or, for that matter, any sane person, should have called police and not simply the campus police, when he first heard from the assistant coach of Sandusky’s actions in the shower instead of simply notifying his superiors?
The “campus police’ ARE the police - in every way, shape & form. Had the State College or PA State Police been called, they would have directed the caller back to the the authorities in the appropriate jurisdiction - i.e., the University Police.
OK, so shouldn’t have ol’ Joe, as any sane person would have, called the campus police instead of simply reporting the incident to his superiors?
The problem I see is that with this threat hanging over the University, I would think that applications will take a nosedive and with them the revenue stream.
If you were in high school would you apply to a school which my lose its accreditation while you’re still matriculating?
I see this as a much more serious problem than the NCAA fines.
Spot on! Paterno followed the policy based on state law. There is nothing “more” he could have done without violating that policy and the laws on which the policies were based. He was not an eye witness. He received outdated, vague information and he did exactly what he was supposed to do. Sandusky is in prison. Spanier and the AD need to face the legal system. Paterno is dead and cannot defend himself. The assistant coach is the first line villain here. He delayed reporting child abuse. He didn’t what he saw but reported a bunch of vague lies. He violated the state law and the PSU policy, not Paterno.
There were 3 emails out of 3.5 million. None of those three were to or from Paterno and evidence is surfacing that atleast one of them was/is a forgery. None of them were specific or convincing in any way.
Personally, it would make a difference to me. I'm not sure how representitive my attitudes are to the average future Penn Stater. But I see your point.
No such report was ever made. It was reported as "fondling" and you do realize thet the jury in the Sandusky trial acquitted Sandusky of this reported shower incident.
“Does anybody understand the accreditation process?”
I found this news item regarding the accreditation warning...I heard Rush, and this is the reference for his comments. I have been down on Penn State over this and have expressed myself on various threads here, but that said, I agree with Rush. The ‘experts’ and the hiladelphia-based Middle States Commission are way out on a limb with this one.
PHILADELPHIA (AP) — An accreditation warning issued to Penn State is serious and necessary given the issues raised by a recent child sex-abuse scandal, but the school is unlikely to lose the all-important designation, experts said Tuesday.
They also expect the university to comply quickly with demands to show that its governance, finances and integrity meet standards set by its accreditation agency, the Middle States Commission on Higher Education.
‘’This is an entirely appropriate and anticipated action by Middle States given the strategic importance of voluntary peer review,’’ said American Council on Education president Molly Corbett Broad. ‘’It’s really the basis on which public accountability is achieved in American higher education.’’
The Philadelphia-based Middle States Commission issued the warning last week based on the school’s handling of molestation allegations against Jerry Sandusky, a former assistant football coach convicted in June of sexually abusing 10 boys.
Concerns include whether Penn State trustees provide sufficient oversight of the administration, the strength of the university’s ethical standards and the school’s compliance with government policies, such as those requiring campus crime reports, said Middle States spokesman Richard Pokrass.
The commission also wants the school to address its financial status in light of a $60 million penalty imposed by the NCAA and any lawsuits from Sandusky’s victims.
Penn State must submit a report to the agency by Sept. 30. A small team of accreditors would then visit the school in State College.
‘’The university has been very cooperative,’’ Pokrass said Tuesday. ‘’The leadership of the university is aware of what the concerns are and have been taking very positive steps.’’
Penn State is now one of about 15 schools in the Mid-Atlantic region with a warning.
Most institutions work their way off warning status within a year to 18 months, Pokrass said. Those that don’t are put on probation.
Schools lose accreditation after two years of noncompliance, starting with the warning. Students cannot use federal funds - including Pell grants and government loans - to attend unaccredited schools.
Penn State stressed that it remains accredited and that academic programs are not being questioned.
‘’This action has nothing to do with the quality of education our students receive,’’ Blannie Bowen, vice provost for academic affairs, said in a statement.
Judith Eaton, president of the Council for Higher Education Accreditation, said Tuesday that Penn State has the reputation, strength and resources to rebound from this setback. It’s ‘’highly unlikely’’ the school will end up on probation, let alone lose its accreditation, she said.
Still, accreditation warnings are important tools because governments typically don’t take action against colleges and universities, Broad said. Accreditation agencies provide accountability through standards enforcement and peer evaluation of academic programs, university leadership, financial stability and institutional honor.
‘’This is serious both for our own sense of integrity and well-being within higher education,’’ Broad said.
The school that most recently lost its accreditation from Middle States was Baltimore International College, a culinary school in Maryland.
Pokrass said it lost its accreditation about nine months ago because of finances, a lack of assessment of student learning and issues regarding student services. It is now owned and operated by Stratford University, an accredited for-profit institution based in Virginia.
Middle States accredits more than 525 colleges and universities in five states plus the District of Columbia, two U.S. territories and several international locations.
But something was done following his report. You should read the Freeh Report and find out what.
When Michael Vick got punished for Dog Fighting. The NFL & Courts saw that his return would finance 1 particular Animal Rights organization (who magically had no problems with Vick's return to polite society). Proving without a doubt that "Money Talks and BS Walks."
No, I was not aware that the the jury acquitted Sandusky of raping the boy I. The locker room. But let’s go with the fondling angle shall we?
A young and presumably upset assistant coach comes to Paterno to report that Sandusky was “fondling” a boy in the locker room shower. So what does Coach Paterno do? He tells Spanier or someone then goes to work for another decade while the boy fondler continues to have access to the facilities.
That seems legit.
I can just imagine Coach Paterno strolling down the hallway outside the locker room and the fondler, Paterno’s “retired” colleague Jerry Sandusky, approaching from the other direction:
Sandusky: (nods head)
Paterno: Hey. What’s up?
He was told after this 2001 incident not to bring anymore kids to the facilities, and his charity was told as well.
As a matter of fact in the Freeh Report there is a Paterno note in Exhibit 2G regarding Sandusky's use of training and workout facilities in his retirement that reads: for personal use okay, but for 2nd Mile kids -- No, liability issue.
Point well taken, but it only strengthens mine. Sandusky was allowed to continue roaming the facilities for a decade or thereabouts after the “fondling” incident (he even continued to have an office at PSU iirc). Why do you suppose they banned him from bringing his boy toys to campus any longer?
They only banned him from bringing kids into the showers to eliminate the potential for anymore incidents where abuse could occur.
As far as his office, it was part of his retirement agreement negotiated with the university and not something that could be unilaterally just taken away.
The administrators contacted his charity expecting that it would do something to reel Sandusky in — but in retrospect it didn’t, even though its CEO was Dr Raykovitz, a child psychologist with connections to Child Youth Services and the Department of Public Welfare.
And according to the Freeh Report, the plan worked out by Curley, Schultz and Spanier with legal counsel was to also notify the DPW directly. What happened to that will have to come from Curley as it was on his To Do list.
How many years passed between Paterno’s knowledge of what was going on and the Freeh report ?
I am not sure I am fully following you.
After McQueary or whatever his name is reported the “fondling” by Sandusky to Coach Paterno, Sandusky wandered around campus unfettered (except for a ban on bringing little boys) for another decade or so.
Am I misconstruing this, or is it true?
It’s in the Freeh Report that Sandusky and his charity were told that he was not permitted to bring kids into the showers anymore.
We already know that the ones in control were aware of the situation and sat on their hands. If this doesn’t justify the university being punished, I’m not sure what does.
Because of their inaction more young boys were raped.
And some are worrying about the poor “student” athletes. They will all be fine. They will go play elsewhere if they wish and they are good enough.
Screw Penn State management. They certainly screwed enough young boys.
Lets get some sanity into this discussion! We are talking about thousands, and tens of thousands, of people who are indirectly smeared in this process.When you get to talking about withdrawing accreditation, for petes sake, you are going to the jugular of the university.
I remind you of the Duke 88 professors who sought to throw the entire membership of the Duke Lacrosse Team under the bus - and some to prison - on the basis of non-credible, shifting, unsubstantiated charges by a person who had plenty of motive to lie and was in a profession not devoted to the highest values in society.
You knew, if you were sentient, that Nifong was railroading those young men - and yet 88 professors of Duke University were fully on board for a witch hunt. What have we heard about the accreditation of Duke in response to that! Penn State faculty has Michael Mann, he of the infamous Global Warming Hockey Stick graph, and no accreditation question attaches to that.
Yet in the case of Penn State football, sanctimony oozes from every pore of the politically correct, and even among many FReepers. It would make about as much sense to condemn the Duke Basketball Team for the abuses of the Duke Faculty as it does to withdraw accreditation from Peen State because of a rat in the football program.
I reject the idea that what Sandusky did and Paterno and the university president knew about (among others) is anything but their violation of their own public trust. They are culpable. They should be punished. The law says university will pay and pay for the damage. No one can estimate what this amount will be. Is the university really guilty of their sins ? Think about that if you worked at PSU or were trying to graduate...
He wasn’t silent and if you read the Freeh Report you would see that his report to his superiors was acted upon by ALL of those above him.
So I wasn’t misconstruing what happened.
How do you fetter a free man who has not been convicted of a crime??? Remember how long Sandusky wandered the campus unfettered even after the Grand Jury report and he was charged with multiple counts of abuse.
So.. You want me to believe that after Sandusky took all those little boys on trips to bowls games and stuff (lodged them in hos own hotel rooms)....
And reportedly “fondled” a boy in the showers...
And Paterno was told about the fondling by an (arguably) upset young assistant coach...
That Paterno continued going to work each day while the “fondler” Sandusky had free rein around the campus.
And that Paterno, one of the most powerful men in the history of the entire school, just carried on - business as usual.
And that is just A-OK?
Let’s assume there just wasn’t enough evidence or whatver to charge/try/convinct Sandusky at the time...
based upon what he knew, Paterno could have said something like this:
“That sick SOB Sandusky who takes little boys on trips to bowl games and shares his room with them has been seen by one of our asst. coaches fondling a little boy in the showrs. And now, sopme ten years later, he is still walking around! Either do something about it or I QUIT!”
“Oh.. wait!!! I can’t quit!!! Otherwise, Bobby Bowden will have more wins than me or something”
Naturally, a scandal like what happened at Penn State would attract concern from the Middle States Higher Education Commission, and that most likely is the sole reason for the letter. Chances are it really won't lead to any type of punitive action unless there is something more than we know.
You should be asking those questions of the CYS case workers, child psychologists, detectives, DPW investigators, administrators, district attorneys, and the CEO and Dr of child psychology of TSM, who had 10 times the evidence of child abuse in 1998 and still couldn't charge him, versus the 2001 incident witnessed for 2 seconds by McQueary whose description the jury in the Sandusky trial found to be less than indictable and thus acquitted him of it.
And who should he have said that to??? the Department of Public Welfare that approved Sandusky as fit to be an adoptive parent or the Department of Public Welfare that exonerated Sandusky in an earlier incident and the department that would have investigated this one.
“There were 3 emails”
It seems to me that those of you who are defending Paterno are defending the indefensible.
Paterno admitted, prior to his death, that HE didn’t do enough and should have done more. I heard him say it.
What other proof do you need?
No. I would not agree. If I’m being insured that everything is being taken care of, or it was looked into. I, as a person who was fed second-hand information (that turned out to be watered down), am not going above my superiors heads at that point. At that point it’s on the witness to go up the ladder. Only he knows what he actually witnessed.
If I Worked at PSU I would be furious with the hierarchy for allowing children to be raped and doing nothing. When the university is punished, the students won’t be punished at all, other than being saddened that they can’t go to a bowl game. If that is why they went there they have the brains of a potted plant.
There was zero evidence linking Paterno to the coverup. There was nothing from anyone involved saying we gotta keep this under wraps or itll hurt recruiting...
...PSU koolaid drinkers ought to be put into psychology texts for future study in denial tendencies...so by your logic, or lack of same, if there is no tangible evidence trail in which someone screams out in big, bold letters ‘we did it, we’re guilty, punish us’, then there is no crime...hate to be prosecutor in your world...the Freeh report was meticulously organized, with copious documents, many not relevant, some more so...but I do believe Freeh has a little bit more info at hand than you do, for all your blathering on this forum...
...Since you seem to think Paterno had nothing to do with anything, how do you explain his telling the GJ that he knew of no similar prior incidident with Sandusky and a boy in the shower, when everyone with a warm brain knows he knew about the 1999 incident...in other words, why did Joe tell the jury he knew nothing when he clearly did? Lying under oath, maybe? What’s the name for that? Oh, I forgot...in your world, nothing is culpable, without a banner confession attached to it...
The only thing I needed to read in the Free Report was AD Curleys email to Spanier saying he was uncomfortable in calling the Police after talking to Joe...
...but remember, that’s not evidence, according to the kooolaiders...that document was dreamed up by Erickson, on the orders of Corbett the governor, in order for Freeh to have something to give to Emmert, so they could punish all the innocent PSU fans by giving them substandard football for a few years so as to get back at Paterno for holding onto the job too long...or some such variation...
You’ve been harrassing me for three weeks now, and have yet to point to the page of the Freeh report with the evidence showing Joe orchestrated this massive coverup.
Give me the page, or shut the hell up IrishBrigade, a.k.a. Catholic priest molestation enabler. (Oh look, I can do it too. Accuse someone of being involved in covering up for a pedophile without any evidence. Gee that was easy).
He also said that he trusted others to do their jobs -- those who knew more about the situation than him.
Yeh -- he should have done the athletic director's job, the vice-president's job, the president's job, the chief of police's job, the CEO of TSM's job, the DPW's and CYS's job for them -- instead of just his own. But that is not how things work in football, at universities and in life.
In retrospect everybody should have done more -- even YOU.
If somebody told me one of my charges was screwing a child, especially AT the work place, the cops would be called immendiatley. Even YOU would do that.
That is not what he was told and Sandusky was not one of his charges and he reported what he was told to the proper authorities -- his immediate superior -- per the law.