Battle royale: Prehistoric cave bears versus cave lions

BBC ^ | May 23, 2011 | Matt Walker

[decimon]

Sleeping on its bed, a giant cave bear opens one eye, alert to any intruder.

It stands, lifting its massive 400kg frame and bares its teeth.

In front of it is an equally sized cave lion; a giant predatory cat, and the cave bear's mortal enemy.

Only one will survive, while the bones of the fallen will litter the cave floor for millennia.

New evidence reveals how such titanic struggles likely took place in caves across central Europe in the Upper Pleistocene epoch, which ended around 11,500 years ago.

While excavating caves in Germany and Romania, scientists have unearthed the bones of large numbers of cave bears, a now extinct species that stood bigger than today's grizzly bears.

The bears' bones, claw marks they left in the caves in which they lived, and even the beds they slept on, paint the best picture yet of how these magnificent creatures once lived.

But more than that, researchers have also uncovered the petrified bones of the cave bear's foe, the Pleistocene cave lion.

More than 25% bigger than today's African lions, the cave lion was itself an impressive predator, one that may have specialised in hunting cave bears for food.

Details of the two massive animals' remarkable battles have been released by palaeontologist Dr Cajus Diedrich of PaleoLogic, based in Halle, Germany.

[decimon]

[decimon]

Spelunking ping.

[onona]

Cats over 800 pounds in weight ?? For real ??

We know that Bears have evolved to keep their size by fat storage and hibernation, etc.

Cats that size must have had to eat like mofos to stay that way.

[King Moonracer]

Lions vs. Bears??? I wonder who will win.....Da Bears? you betcha!

[decimon]

Cats over 800 pounds in weight ?? For real ??

I saw 25% larger than current African lions. That would be less than 800 pounds.

[Mr. Blond]

That elk seems a bit undersized for the age of mega-fauna.

[AnotherUnixGeek]

More than 25% bigger than today's African lions, the cave lion was itself an impressive predator, one that may have specialised in hunting cave bears for food.

Hard to believe a large predator would specialize in hunting even larger predators for food.

[calex59]

of how these magnificent creatures once lived

Magnificent creatures? He wouldn't think they were so magnificent if they were still roaming about.

[SunkenCiv]

· GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach · · join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·
	Antiquity Journal  & archive  Archaeologica  Archaeology  Archaeology Channel  BAR  Bronze Age Forum  Discover  Dogpile  Eurekalert  Google  LiveScience  Mirabilis.ca  Nat Geographic  PhysOrg  Science Daily  Science News  Texas AM  Yahoo  Excerpt, or Link only?	Thanks decimon. The cave lion had a wide distribution at one time; finally hunted out in the Middle East in or around the heyday of the Assyrian Empire. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
· History topic · history keyword · archaeology keyword · paleontology keyword · · Science topic · science keyword · Books/Literature topic · pages keyword ·

[Hugin]

Sounds like they would attack in winter, when the bears were hibernating and other prey would be scarce. Very likely they could kill the bear before it ever woke up.

[decimon]

That elk seems a bit undersized for the age of mega-fauna.

Maybe it's that the lion is over sized.

[Hugin]

See #10.

[Hugin]

I don’t think there were ever Wapiti (Elk to us; in Europe “elk” means moose) in Europe. They do have Red Stag, which is a smaller cousin with similar antlers.

[Inyo-Mono]

Hard to believe a large predator would specialize in hunting even larger predators for food.

Very hard to believe.

[decimon]

Hard to believe a large predator would specialize in hunting even larger predators for food.

Someone may have taken license with that 'specialized.' The Wikipedia entry on cave bears has them as having been mostly or exclusively herbivorous.

[Mr Rogers]

” The presence of fully articulated adult cave lion skeletons, deep in cave bear dens, indicates that lions may have occasionally entered dens to prey on hibernating cave bears, with some dying in the attempt.[4]

These active carnivores [2] probably preyed upon the large herbivorous animals of their time, including horses, deer, reindeer, bison and even injured old or young mammoths. Some paintings of them in caves show several hunting together, which suggests the hunting strategy of contemporary lionesses.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panthera_leo_spelaea

“What makes this cat absolutely incredible was its size. With a length of 3.5 meters and an approximate full grown male weight of around 800 lbs, the European Cave Lion was a dominating species of Lion.”

http://www.facekitty.com/2008/04/the-european-cave-lion-was-the.html

Good short article here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/oxfordshire/7974948.stm

What drove them to extinction? I’m guessing either SUVs or GWB...

[decimon]

Mr Rogers, in post #16, gives another source saying the male cave lion got to 800 pounds.

[muir_redwoods]

SUV’s, GWB or a crushing lack of diversity

[Pollster1]

Cats over 800 pounds in weight . . . Cats that size must have had to eat like mofos to stay that way.

The heaviest tiger on record in the Guinness Book of World Records is a 1025 pound male Siberian tiger. Most male Siberians weigh over 700 pounds. I imagine these cave lions were impressive, and I trust the size estimates.

[hosepipe]

Alaskan bears can get well over 800 lbs.. a few were 1200 lbs.. with pawfulls 6 to 8 inch very sharp claws(knives actually).. plus BIG teeth..

A lucky lion may have killed a young one.. but probably not..