Assessing the accuracy of ice-core CO2 records

Greenie Watch ^ | 12-25-2010 | David Middleton

[steveab]

Assessing the accuracy of ice-core CO2 records

In the excerpt below, David Middleton points out large problems with ice-core data and suggests that fossil Plant Stomata give a much more accurate account of past CO2 levels -- an account that gives no support for Warmism at all and which in fact supports the obvious physics of the matter: Warming causes higher CO2 levels rather than vice versa

[steveab]

It seems that using plants to determine levels of CO2 is much better than ice core data. "Plant stomata suggest that the pre-industrial CO2 levels were commonly in the 360 to 390ppmv range."

[Red Badger]

Lets run this past Hadley and see what they think..

[Robert A Cook PE]

Now, now. You’re not allowed to combat the “scientiferrific” official opinion of the Obama’s/UN/IPCC/EU official tax-increasing (and did I mention the official opinion of the Obama administration “and”’ the ever-so-reliable Supreme Court and EPA?)

[steveab]

Please pass this on to your local elected council members, school boards and community leaders. The “CO2 dives the climate” EPA’s regulations has got to be stop.

[mylife]

The data that Gore used in “an inconvenient truth” also supports the fact that CO2 is a function of warmer temperatures rather than the inverse.

Gore simply altered the sample points to lower the resolution of the data in order to “suggest” that temperature was a function of CO2.

[ETL]

Related...

THE ACQUITTAL OF CARBON DIOXIDE
by Jeffrey A. Glassman, PhD

ABSTRACT:

"Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere [historically] is the product of oceanic respiration due to the well-known but under-appreciated solubility pump. Carbon dioxide rises out of warm ocean waters where it is added to the atmosphere. There it is mixed with residual and accidental CO2, and circulated, to be absorbed into the sink of the cold ocean waters. Next the thermohaline circulation carries the CO2-rich sea water deep into the ocean. A millennium later it appears at the surface in warm waters, saturated by lower pressure and higher temperature, to be exhausted back into the atmosphere. Throughout the past 420 millennia, comprising four interglacial periods, the Vostok record of atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration is imprinted with, and fully characterized by, the physics of the solubility of CO2 in water, along with the lag in the deep ocean circulation.

Notwithstanding that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, atmospheric carbon dioxide has neither caused nor amplified global temperature increases. Increased carbon dioxide has been an effect of global warming, not a cause [historically -etl]. Technically, carbon dioxide is a lagging proxy for ocean temperatures. When global temperature, and along with it, ocean temperature rises, the physics of solubility causes atmospheric CO2 to increase.

If increases in carbon dioxide, or any other greenhouse gas, could have in turn raised global temperatures, the positive feedback would have been catastrophic. While the conditions for such a catastrophe were present in the Vostok record from natural causes, the runaway event did not occur. Carbon dioxide does not accumulate in the atmosphere."

http://www.rocketscientistsjournal.com/2006/10/co2_acquittal.html
_______________________________________________________________

[mylife]

If I recall correctly, Al Gore used a sample rate of one data point per million years on his ice core data.

Use a sample rate of one data point per 100 years and the same cor samples clearly show that temperature “leads” CO2 levels rising by approximately 800 years.

Therefore, increased levels of CO2 are a function of warmer temperatures and not the inverse.

This is logical, because warmer temperatures would lead to increased plant grow and increased populations of animals that depend on that plant growth for food.
Then when this organic material decays, it produces....Voila! CO2..

[OldNavyVet]

These idiotic words are from the article...

Gas doesn't tend to migrate downward through sediment. Being less dense than rock and water, it migrates upward.

The fact is that gases, as with all other elements and elememt combinations, have atomic weights; and those gases lighter than air will rise in air ... and vice versa.

Shipyard workers must KNOW this fact, because industrial gases (refrigerants, in particular) released inside a ship's hull might drop and push out all air inside the hull; thereby killing the workers.

[mylife]

Technically, carbon dioxide is a lagging proxy

Bingo! The data PROVES IT!

[Baynative]

How can any scientific measurement be made with out the balance of emotional opinion from Whoopi 'cushion' Goldberg, or Chris 'the tingle' Matthews?

Contemporary practice demands that any issue worthy of more than a one line discussion must be immediately divided on partisan judgment. Regardless of how real or trivial the point may be if a prominent conservative supports it, the left must immediately be against it and visa-versa. Even the life and death debate of Terri Schiavo was split by party loyalty. It is just bizarre that we are defying intelligence by letting majority media polling decide whether up is really down, fish are more important than people or, cold is really hot.

[G Larry]

links don’t work....!?!?!

[ETL]

From JunkScience.com...

So, greenhouse [effect] is all about carbon dioxide, right?

Wrong. The most important players on the greenhouse stage are water vapor and clouds [clouds of course aren't gas, but high level ones do act to trap heat from escaping, while low-lying cumulus clouds tend to reflect sunlight and thereby help cool the planet -etl]. Carbon dioxide has been increased to about 0.038% of the atmosphere (possibly from about 0.028% pre-Industrial Revolution) while water in its various forms ranges from 0% to 4% of the atmosphere and its properties vary by what form it is in and even at what altitude it is found in the atmosphere.

In simple terms the bulk of Earth's greenhouse effect is due to water vapor by virtue of its abundance. Water accounts for about 90% of the Earth's greenhouse effect -- perhaps 70% is due to water vapor and about 20% due to clouds (mostly water droplets), some estimates put water as high as 95% of Earth's total tropospheric greenhouse effect (e.g., Freidenreich and Ramaswamy, 'Solar Radiation Absorption by Carbon Dioxide, Overlap with Water, and a Parameterization for General Circulation Models,' Journal of Geophysical Research 98 (1993):7255-7264).

The remaining portion comes from carbon dioxide, nitrous oxide, methane, ozone and miscellaneous other 'minor greenhouse gases.' As an example of the relative importance of water it should be noted that changes in the relative humidity on the order of 1.3-4% are equivalent to the effect of doubling CO2.

http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/
_______________________________________________________________

Water Vapor Rules the Greenhouse System

Water vapor constitutes Earth's most significant greenhouse gas, accounting for about 95% of Earth's greenhouse effect (4). Interestingly, many 'facts and figures' regarding global warming completely ignore the powerful effects of water vapor in the greenhouse system, carelessly (perhaps, deliberately) overstating human impacts as much as 20-fold.

Water vapor is 99.999% of natural origin. Other atmospheric greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide (CO2), methane (CH4), nitrous oxide (N2O), and miscellaneous other gases (CFC's, etc.), are also mostly of natural origin (except for the latter, which is mostly anthropogenic).

Human activities contribute slightly to greenhouse gas concentrations through farming, manufacturing, power generation, and transportation. However, these emissions are so dwarfed in comparison to emissions from natural sources we can do nothing about, that even the most costly efforts to limit human emissions would have a very small-- perhaps undetectable-- effect on global climate.

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html
_______________________________________________________________

Water Vapor Confirmed As Major Player In Climate Change

ScienceDaily (Nov. 18, 2008) — Water vapor is known to be Earth's most abundant greenhouse gas, but the extent of its contribution to global warming has been debated. Using recent NASA satellite data, researchers have estimated more precisely than ever the heat-trapping effect of water in the air, validating the role of the gas as a critical component of climate change.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081117193013.htm

[Bob]

These idiotic words are from the article...

Gas doesn't tend to migrate downward through sediment. Being less dense than rock and water, it migrates upward.

The fact is that gases, as with all other elements and elememt combinations, have atomic weights; and those gases lighter than air will rise in air ... and vice versa.

What does the weight of gases relative to air have to do with their weight relative to rock and water?

[ETL]

>>links don’t work....!?!?!

Try these...

The first links to the article at the top (scroll down page for it), the second link, I think, to the source of the info for the article.

http://antigreen.blogspot.com/2010/12/very-selective-precautionary-principle.html

http://debunkhouse.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/co2-ice-cores-vs-plant-stomata-wuwt/

[ETL]

Interestingly, even when CO2 levels rise (naturally via warming oceans), the additional CO2 in the atmosphere doesn’t lead to any additional warming, the so-called “runaway greenhouse effect” Al Gore tries to scare kids about. The ice core record shows this clearly.

[marmot84]

Ha! This is an important result. Finally some evidence to counter the CO2 haters. Warming causes CO2. He He he... Those idiots. Hadley will of course say this is wrong. They are banking on the ice core analysis that they’ve done and will fight this tooth and nail.

[mylife]

Yup.

All of the global warming pundits ignore the basic data and try to wallow in minutia as a way to get the focus of of the dominant basic data.

[steveab]

Sorry, try http://antigreen.blogspot.com

[OldNavyVet]

What does the weight of gases relative to air have to do with their weight relative to rock and water?

From a Cal-Tech entrance exam ...

Picture a gas filled balloon suspended in midair inside a constant velocity moving train boxcar. When the train slows down, will the ballon move forward or backward?

[ETL]

Water vapor plays an overwhelmingly large role in the greenhouse effect, accounting for something like 95% of it. See my earlier post above on the subject.