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Waco Biker Massacre: Inconclusive Autopsy Reports, Absurd Court Decisions, Gag Order Maintained
Reason ^ | August 28, 2015 | Brian Doherty

Posted on 08/31/2015 4:10:15 AM PDT by don-o

I’ve reported at length before about various reasons to question the official government narrative surrounding the chaotic and violent incident that resulted in nine people shot to death and 18 wounded and 177 arrested outside the Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas, on May 17.

It all happened outside a planned meeting of a mostly political biker club coalition, the Confederation of Clubs and Independents. See here for the most recent, and here the most thorough, of that reporting.

The gag order on people involved in defending the arrested, keeping information from flowing to the public on this controversy, was successfully challenged, then alas reinstated earlier this month.

A set of autopsy reports have been issued about the dead. They are available in full at the Waco Tribune.

The Aging Rebel website, which has featured a lot of interesting reporting and speculation casting doubt on the police story, sums up the somewhat vague basics in this post.

While they do not authoritatively state any judgment on to exactly what type of bullets from what type of gun did the killings—important to discover how many of the deaths and woundings were caused by police themselves as opposed to out of control feuding bikers—the Aging Rebel web site sums up what they don’t tell us:

They do not….disprove the notion that all, or at least most of the dead men were killed by police using M-16s and FN P90 machine guns.

Thirteen of sixteen entrance wounds were .25 inches in diameter or smaller.

FN P90s fire a round with a diameter of .224409 inches. M-16s fire slightly smaller rounds with diameters of 0.218898 inches. All but one of the victims had wounds fired from a downward trajectory. Six of the nine dead had head or neck wounds. None of the wounds contained gunshot residue which indicates that the shots were fired from at least three feet away and probably five feet or farther away. The absence of residue casts doubt on claims by prosecutors of “Bandidos executing Cossacks, and Cossacks executing Bandidos.” Two of the dead had large wounds consistent with a 12 gauge shotgun slug. Ten of 16 wounds were in the back, indicating that the victims were running away when they died. Seven of the wounds were fired from right to left. Six were fired from left to right.

Nine millimeter bullets have a diameter of 0.35433 inches; forty caliber handguns fire a bullet that is four tenths of an inch in diameter and 357 magnums fire rounds that are about .357 inches in diameter…

Most of the recovered bullets were either highly deformed or fragmented which indicates they were fired by high velocity …..

Most police ammunition in the United States is designed to penetrate a human body to a depth of 12 inches and for that reason that ammunition is usually copper jacketed. Most of the bullets that killed at the Twin Peaks were copper jacketed….

None of the autopsies include ballistics information. Notations by eight pathologists involved in the autopsies describe bullets and bullet fragments in very general and inconsistent terms….

In other Waco news, the “examining trial” hearings have been happening for various of the arrested. Those proceedings are meant to ascertain whether there was sufficient cause for an arrest in the first place such that the arrested’s cases should go to a grand jury for actual indictment. The results have not been encouraging about the judicial system's attitudes toward this whole mess.

A 65-year-old Bandido (one of the two biker gangs most blamed by police for the chaos) chaplain, Lawrence Yager, was found justifiably arrested, mostly because he had (legally owned and carried) guns in his possession and in his truck, although, as the Waco Tribune reported:

Yager’s attorney, Landon Northcutt, of Stephenville, argued after the testimonies of Department of Public Safety Lt. Steven Schwartz and Waco police Detective Sam Key that neither officer could offer evidence that Yager conspired to commit murder, assault or any crime that day.

Yager was not wearing his cuts or colors that day and serves as chaplain for the Bandidos, a VFW post and the Texas Association of Vietnam Vets, Northcutt said.

“He was wearing a Christian T-shirt. He was there to minister to people who need him. That is what he does. He is retired. That is all he does,” Northcutt told the judge.

The Waco Tribune’s reporting from the examining trial (where standards for keeping the defendant in the system are far lower than probable cause) of married couple William and Morgan English is a good window into the standards that went into many, likely most, of the arrests that day:

Department of Public Safety Lt. Steven Schwartz, a 17-year department veteran, testified at the morning hearing that William and Morgan English wore patches that identified them as members of a group called Distorted….

He said he thinks the Englishes were aware of the rift between the Cossacks and Bandidos and they were there that day as a show of support for the Bandidos.

But under cross-examination from [the Englishes' lawyer Paul] Looney, Schwartz said neither he nor other DPS investigators were aware that the seven-member Distorted group existed before May 17…

Schwartz said they wore patches that said they support the Bandidos, so that tells him they are at least “somewhat involved in criminal activity.”

He said he saw nothing that day and has developed no subsequent evidence to show the Englishes are involved in criminal activity…..

Schwartz agreed with Looney that the Englishes were cooperative and agreed to talk to investigators after the shooting.

“He said they told police that one of their friends brought a gun with him, but they left it locked up in the car.

“Other than that, all we have is that they were merely present at a murder. Correct?” Looney asked.

“Correct,” Schwartz said.

Only two of the 177 bikers who were arrested on engaging in organized criminal activity charges remain jailed in McLennan County.

Texas Lawyer magazine sums up the grand jury process at work in this case, which won’t see any of the arrested having any chance to clear their names until October, five months after the arrest.

Former Reason intern Jeff Winkler, writing in Texas Monthly, reports on various biker theories as to what was really up at Twin Peaks that day, reported from a planned rally in support of the arrested bikers that was shut down by a bomb scare last week.

Winkler's story ends with a touching scene of various bikers visiting the scene of the crime, treating it like an eerie combination of war memorial and live crime investigation, speculating on what sort of bullets from whom could have taken down biker comrades. (Many are quite sure a sniper was on the roof of a nearby restaurant shooting into the crowd.)

And two non-biker patrons on the scene are suing the restaurant for damages, claiming they were emotionally traumatized and received cuts and bruises at the scene, and that Twin Peaks was negligent for allowing the biker meeting to occur there in the first place after receiving warnings from police not to do so.

I talked briefly on the phone today with lawyer Clint Broden, who represents three of the people arrested that day. Besides confirming the history of the gag order being overturned then reimposed, when asked for any opinions about the relevance of, say, the inconclusive autopsy report, this lawyer representing clients in a matter of intense public interest involving possible criminal malfeasance by police could only beg off.

He’s under a gag order.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: waco; wacobikers
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To: Robert Teesdale

“The long, winding roar of hundreds of motorcycles ridden by serious, strong and silent men, casting aside rivalry and contention and at times, even warfare to demonstrate respect and solidarity and strength for the loved ones left behind is a thing of nobility; even if an isolated one amid the wenching and the drinking and the fighting and the territorial angst.”

Respect for the dead? How about respect for the living????


141 posted on 09/02/2015 7:08:22 AM PDT by TexasGator
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To: TexasGator

Am I chapping your hide, here?


142 posted on 09/02/2015 7:17:56 AM PDT by Robert Teesdale (III% | 4GW)
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To: don-o; House Atreides; Finny; Osage Orange; Lazamataz; piroque; theBuckwheat; Paladin2; ...
This might end up being a little fun.

TexasGator, I'll be candid in response to your serial posts. Full disclosure, and I will even note where I'm stating what I know v. what I think.

After all the stupid graphics and conspiracy theories and personal insults you have engaged in you want ‘genuine engagement’ from me?

Yes. I am curious to know what drives the maelstrom of unfriendliness inside you, as you are a specimen of example. The lines are being drawn in the nation, darker each day, and we see the low intensity conflict becoming more brokenly open as uniformed officers are being fatally ambushed at a rapidly increasing rate and the distrust between the People and the State is now open and declared. Your positions, your manner, your advocacies and your espoused ideology are starkly useful in analysis. There is also a genuine compassion for you for what seems like a frozen, somewhat fixated fear and bitterness on your part.

Which biker gang are you affiliated with?

I am not affiliated with any motorcycle club. To my knowledge, no person in my life is a patch holder, prospect or hang-around of any club. I have had one or two very brief conversations with patch holders in passing over the years but not enough to form an acquaintance. I have no knowledge of any club business or opinion on the same. For that matter I am not aware of any gang affiliation or even interest on the part of any person I personally know. The same can be said of any other organized crime relationship or affiliation.

You can sort of picture me as the ‘independent’ on the road ‘controlled’ by the gangs. I enjoy that independence. I don’t consider it isolation.

You are aware, I presume, that you are deliberately painting an "outlaw" picture of yourself? The bold lone wolf, No Clubbed, defying who you name as rulers of the road? It's a fascinating sort of projection taking place, one more reason why I am interested in what moves you personally. It sounds as if you are in fact drawn to that culture of the outlaw, but haven't yet made that decision to leap into what you truly want in life.

Bringing facts to the table and exposing false information is bringing balance to these threads. I don’t expect to ever gain a favorable opinion from a bunch of dudes that consider smear tactics and posting personal information their primary form of engagement.

I see you bringing facts, opinion, conjecture and insults to the table. Much like any other poster. You may not expect to receive a favorable opinion, but personally I believe there is value in real engagement with other human beings and in recognizing the worth of what moves them internally to their positions and understandings. In both directions. Why not join me?

Otherwise, why bother? If we do not bother to know the other, and to reach common ground, then when political disagreement turns adamant and power on the ground grows hot, it degenerates into force and that is the object to avoid.

And yours?

I don’t know if this was your first but it was early on. Please explain how that is ‘increasing the knowledge or insight’ of others?


I attempt to increase the knowledge of others by sharing my perspective. My perspective is arrived at through experience, education and consideration. My perspective isn't necessarily correct or determinative. I put effort into developing a thoughtful one. I share in a style that I hope will accurately convey my thoughts, and from time to time bring amusement or enjoyment. I like to write. I hold passionate views. At times I may succeed in provoking positively, or negatively. Some times I no doubt evoke boredom and disinterest. Nothing's 100%.

They sure didn’t need more.

We are in agreement. The paramilitary forces of the State that were prepositioned in the Twin Peaks restaurant area on May 17th, 2015 were indeed numerous enough to inflict an appalling death count and successfuly conduct mass arrests of witnesses on a scale capable of immediately suppressing any and all useful public voice contradictory to the propagated State narrative.

How about sharing a personal experience that forms your worldview on the relationship between the State and the People? Or which, if any, of the enumerated rights of Man you really don't - or passionately do - subscribe to belief in? What hurt does your perpetual sarcasm stem from?

I used to believe deeply in America. I still do believe deeply in America. I also used to believe in the integrity of our government. I no longer do. I no longer believe in the integrity of any government. And I have moved past the stages of loss; I view the cycle of liberty and tyranny and revolution and renewal as just Men breathing their cultures. It's not personal, even though the impacts are.

We all have a role to play. Mine I see clearly, more than I ever did, and with I think a more mature and sober execution than I did as a passionate thirty-year-old at a podium addressing a crowd, full of fire and piss and vinegar. I still have the fire, but added to that is now a more candid self assessment of capacities and time.

I am executing, not theorizing, and it is good to do.

You?
143 posted on 09/02/2015 8:13:59 AM PDT by Robert Teesdale (III% | 4GW)
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To: Robert Teesdale

mark


144 posted on 09/02/2015 8:25:16 AM PDT by don-o (I am Kenneth Carlisle - Waco 5/17/15)
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To: Robert Teesdale; TexasGator
Am I chapping your hide, here?

Kicking your butt is more like it...hence the ping for reinforcement's.

145 posted on 09/02/2015 8:42:15 AM PDT by mac_truck (Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: mac_truck
Kicking your butt is more like it...hence the ping for reinforcement's.

If I was looking for reinforcements I'd not have pinged you, Ethan, X-spurt or others. I'm actually enjoying this. Perhaps a chance for TexasGator to be more forthcoming than in the past.

In the meantime, you and I can trade insults?
146 posted on 09/02/2015 8:44:40 AM PDT by Robert Teesdale (III% | 4GW)
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To: Robert Teesdale
This might end up being a little fun.

Hardly. TG has already rolled you in the back alley, so to speak. There's really no reset button for you to push, no matter how much you'd like there to be.

147 posted on 09/02/2015 8:49:43 AM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode (We have had enough of immorality and the mockery of ethics, goodness, faith and honesty.)
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode


Even more fun to have the three of you present up front for the revel!

Let's start with a question for you. Wouldn't you agree, based on the evidence, that Darwinian selection is involved with the evolution of outcomes for State structure among men? That there's an inherent tension between liberty and tyranny, pulled tangentially by ego and desire, ending up in a predictable cyclic pattern which lends itself to disruption and manipulation at the cost of blood?
148 posted on 09/02/2015 8:59:34 AM PDT by Robert Teesdale (III% | 4GW)
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode; TexasGator; X-spurt; mac_truck

And, do you guys work parallel shifts?


149 posted on 09/02/2015 9:01:50 AM PDT by Robert Teesdale (III% | 4GW)
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To: Robert Teesdale

you pinged me to this thread doofus, so no.


150 posted on 09/02/2015 9:06:38 AM PDT by mac_truck (Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: TexasGator
Bringing facts to the table and exposing false information is bringing balance to these threads. I don’t expect to ever gain a favorable opinion from a bunch of dudes that consider smear tactics and posting personal information their primary form of engagement.

What about bold bald flat out lying....TG??? You are pretty good at that, aren't you!!

Are you a chick?

151 posted on 09/02/2015 9:08:49 AM PDT by Osage Orange (Q. What do Eskimos get from sitting on the ice too long? A: Polaroids.)
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To: mac_truck
I think he was being FReeper courteous....

FWIW-

152 posted on 09/02/2015 9:12:35 AM PDT by Osage Orange ( How do you get holy water? You boil the hell out of it.)
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To: mac_truck
you pinged me to this thread doofus, so no.

I was going to post, "Bummer". But by calling me a doofus, you're already on a roll for the flames.

You see, this is quite fun.

Would you have been a Tory in 1775?
153 posted on 09/02/2015 9:13:18 AM PDT by Robert Teesdale (III% | 4GW)
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To: Robert Teesdale
Whats the matter Robert...the fish aren't biting?


154 posted on 09/02/2015 9:20:36 AM PDT by mac_truck (Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: mac_truck
Fishing references are fun. I spent all day Saturday on a boat off the Outer Banks, pulling in grouper and red snapper. Mackerel, shark and sea bass were on the menu as well. A little bit sunburned but quite happy. Vegas looks to be in the works over the next couple of weeks.

Thunder in the Rockies is this coming weekend as well, so a full calendar is a happy one.

Got any plans yourself? Self-defense class against wallet chains?
155 posted on 09/02/2015 9:27:26 AM PDT by Robert Teesdale (III% | 4GW)
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To: Robert Teesdale

“Fishing references are fun. I spent all day Saturday on a boat off the Outer Banks, pulling in grouper and red snapper. Mackerel, shark and sea bass were on the menu as well. “

I am not in SC but the internet shows SC red snapper as prohibited and Fed says no open season.


156 posted on 09/02/2015 10:01:06 AM PDT by TexasGator
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To: Robert Teesdale

Buddy

These are just like south bashers and indeed one south basher is on this thread in TGs posse

This is what they do

All invective

Zero perspective

We know nothing about them

There is some history here on south bashers and involves concerted effort and subterfuge

They could high school girls or a bridge club in Fort Meyers

Who knows

But they are for sure unhappy folks who basically live here

Nice post


157 posted on 09/02/2015 10:40:37 AM PDT by wardaddy (White boy wiggers in pickups Rebel Flags and cowboy rap....FMR meanwhile war on whites steams ahead)
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To: TexasGator; Robert Teesdale
I am not in SC but the internet shows SC red snapper as prohibited and Fed says no open season.

I missed where the OBX moved to SC. No wonder Waco stifled you, Patrick. Dim bulb.


158 posted on 09/02/2015 10:44:14 AM PDT by don-o (I am Kenneth Carlisle - Waco 5/17/15)
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To: TexasGator

Seriously dude?


159 posted on 09/02/2015 10:59:04 AM PDT by waterhill (I Shall Remain, in spite of __________.)
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To: Robert Teesdale

>>> Fishing references are fun. I spent all day Saturday on a boat off the Outer Banks, pulling in grouper and red snapper. Mackerel, shark and sea bass were on the menu as well. <<<

AHA! My lunch choice for today is resolved! Sushi at the local Japanese restaurant.


160 posted on 09/02/2015 11:06:19 AM PDT by JJ_Folderol (Just my opinion and only worth what you paid for it.)
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