Posted on 04/21/2014 3:11:56 PM PDT by nickcarraway
[This post contains spoilers from last night's GoT.] Game of Thrones has been a rape-heavy show from very early on. And it hasn't exactly been progressive in its take on sexual violence — Daenerys falls in love with her rapist, for example. But last night's rape scene, in which Jaime assaults his sister Cersei inches away from their dead son's body, is a new low for the deeply violent series, because the scene was rewritten from the book to recast the sex as not consensual, and yet the show's cast and crew aren't even sure whether it constitutes rape. "It becomes consensual by the end," director Alex Graves tells HitFix. (He also directed last week's episode.) Nikolaj Coster-Waldau tells the Daily Beast that,"There are moments where [Cersei] gives in, and moments where she pushes him away. But it’s not pretty." To the question of whether this encounter constitutes rape, Coster-Waldau says "yes and no." Were we watching different shows? The scene is unambiguously a rape scene, and to suggest otherwise is distressing: How can anyone possibly think this is what consent looks like? Related Stories
Cersei says "no" and "don't" repeatedly, begs Jaime to stop several times, and the scene ends on weeping "it isn't right," while Jaime grunts "I don't care." If Graves filmed more of the scene, it didn't make it into the final cut; if there's a point at which we're supposed to believe this is anything other than nonconsensual sex, I don't know what it could be. It is absolutely not "consensual by the end" — plus, the idea that a rape could be "consensual by the end" is grotesque and dangerous. It plays into the worst she said no, but she meant yes pernicious lies of rape culture. Westeros is not modernity; some could argue that it's unfair to hold these characters to the standards of our society. Except rape is mentioned repeatedly on last night's episode, and in each instance it is presented as something egregious: Samwell's nightmare is that Gilly could be raped. Oberyn wants to kill the Mountain for raping his sister. Rape is bad even in the brutal Seven Kingdoms! These people all know what rape is, and they know that it's bad. Jaime himself has said that if he were a woman, he'd make his rapists kill him before he ever stopped fighting them off. Sexual violence is used repeatedly throughout the show to victimize, marginalize, and terrorize women. (And some men.)
In general, I try not to compare Game of Thrones the show to the books its based on: First, because I haven't and will probably never read them, and second because the show is its own entity, with some distinct characters and condensed plotting. But let's at least mention here that in the books, the sex is absolutely consensual, if still sort of disturbing given that it takes place right next to Joffrey's corpse. Any corpse would make it creepy as hell, but your recently murdered son — whose lineage is a secret, given that he's actually the product of incest? Congratulations, GoT: You are really twisted. Turning this into a rape scene just adds another layer of unnecessary depravity to an already profoundly desperate moment.
I'm not opposed to shows depicting sexual violence, but rape-as-prop is always distressing, particularly in a show like this, where that disregard echoes the kinds of ideas that foster rape culture in the first place: that women's feelings don't matter, that sexual agency isn't a big deal, that rape is something that just kind of happens and that healthy people simply move on. Rape and abuse have consequences for the victims who carry those traumas with them. While I don't know exactly how the show will depict the aftermath of Jamie raping Cersei, GoT does not have a strong track record of acknowledging or exploring the lingering effects of surviving sexual assault, and given that this instance of rape isn't even in the source material, I'm skeptical about the show's ability or desire to depict Cersei's ongoing reaction to it. The next time the show depicts a nuanced understanding of sexual abuse will be the first time — though in fairness, one of the show's calling cards is that anything can happen.
Love it. Great show thus far.
“Turn,” that is. Really, really good.
agreed
BS. She said “No” then she kissed him on the mouth. Not that anything in this fiction matters. Fiction + friction = entertainment.
Some great British actors on that show portraying themselves as both villain and patriot in the American revolution but in a sense they were all British then.
Samuel Roukin is so good as Captain John Graves Simcoe that I want to end him myself.
Angus MacFadyen is awesome as Robert Rogers. A clear villain but one awesome role. The real Robert Rogers was a fascinating historical figure in his own right.
Jamie Bell is good as Abraham Woodhull. Loyalist slowly being driven to turning patriot spy by British abuses.
The fact that she and her brother have been committing incest for years, and have children together, kind of blunts any outrage I might feel for there having been rape involved in the encounter.
“Turn” is a good show! We’ve enjoyed it so far!
You are exactly right. The cable shows are going all out on all types of sex. Thrones showed incest before. Cable shows homo sex (guy on guy) more and more. They are trying to desensitize the viewers. In a decade, it will be all out sex, in any way, all the time.
I have read the series by George R. R. Martin. There are many misconceptions held by those who haven’t read it.
Some thoughts:
1) Margaret Whomever, in her article which kicked this discussion off, needs to GET OVER the fact that a rape was shown on TV. Rape, like sh1t, happens. Rape happens. In medieval times, it happened a lot.
2) I was offended by the sodomy in that same episode, the same sodomy that wasn’t even mentioned by the liberals, who only saw the heterosexual (though incestuous) rape.
3) Much of the show depicts (like the book) the ugly and brutal nature of life in that fictional (but historically-themed) place and time. Again, get over it.
4) A CALLOUT TO HBO: Sick. You are sick. You are perverting GRRM’s books. Twisting them around, adding and subtracting from the plot in ways that mere editing would entitle you. Best example: One might think that Game of Thrones was a series of novels depicting, 40% of the time, acts of homosexuality. It is not. HBO keeps introducing the disgusting practice.
5) For those of you who have not read it, because one thing or another has turned you against it: PLEASE, please ignore what you have been told, or seen on TV on the HBO perverted version, and read the series for yourself. It’s equal to JRR Tolkien. (I’ve never held any fantasy anywhere near to equality to JRRT. I’m 53, so I’ve read a fair amount of fantasy authors.)
Please don’t bash the books based on a negative impression of HBO’s (Hollyweird’s) twisted version of the series. You’re only cheating yourself out of reading some very good stuff.
Few books are worthy of my time as a re-read.
Only those books that have an intricate plot, complex characters, and a sense that—perhaps?—I have missed something can cause me to pick them up again. This would be one such series.
As far as the pleasure of reading it, I’d give JRR Tolkien the nod for us beautiful use of the English language, as well as the sense of a Christian spirit throughout his work, although he denied it, I think it flowed from him quite unconsciously.
Martin used short, direct sentences. It’s not as “beautiful” as JRRT’s, but paints powerful images, and each short sentences propels the characters forward. It’s wonderful in a different sense than JRRT. Alas, there’s no sense of God in his work, but it’s not anti-Christian, either: It’s sort of...pre-Christian? Pagan, in a fantasy sense. As if Christianity may one day come and take root, but it hasn’t just yet.
I wouldn’t regard GRRM’s work in the same light as Tolkien’s , at least, not in that regard.
But do read it, you will not be disappointed. The books pick up in a sense of urgency, they GET BETTER, and the first one should tell you there more goodness to come.
Yes, I’m an apologist for the series. I love it that much.
Just give it a chance. ;) If I can convince just one person to read it, I will have done my Good Deed and spread some joy.
You know I loved Tolkien. Don’t doubt it. I chose my screen name to honor him.
Sauron
Psalms 101:3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes; I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.
You can show graphic torture and murder scenes by the train car load, but sexual assault is over the top. Got it.
WHAT, is Game of Thrones?
I agree, GRRM’s work, although admittedly not suitable for everyone, is IMO a masterpiece. The TV show is but a shadow of the books but retains enough of the original work to nevertheless be an excellent show.
The character Coster-Waldau plays, Jaime, kicks off the whole series and thus the resulting war that has made up most of it by throwing a young boy off the top of a tower after he accidently witnesses Cersei and Jaime in illicit conjugal union; Jaime goes on to kill his own devoted cousin while imprisoned as a way to attempt an escape; and this is what has people outraged?
Apparently some freepers. There is no justification whatsoever for subscribing to and thereby supporting all the various cable channels when worthwhile content can be downloaded or rented.
We were hoping Joffery’s body would fall on top of them.
But you’re going to miss the dragon mother take over her city without using her dragons
saw 20 minutes of one episode and shut it off. I don’t want to watch soft-core porn. The story sounds fantastic, but it’s too much
Solid post. Well done. It will mostly go ignored here though...
I've not seen any of this season, but here is the thesis of the whole series in a nutshell:
Evil and evil people prevail because good people are not willing to do what is necessary to defeat evil.
Good people will not usually lie, cheat, steal, send out spies, etc., etc., to defeat evil.
Good people will not even unite in their efforts to defeat evil. Each nice person has their own kinder, gentler way to appease and appeal to the sub-human trash that is about to take their life, liberty, family, property, and dignity; and darned if we'll stoop to the level of this sub-human scumbag to keep any of it.
About once a century or so, the evil gets to a level where people have to unite, and get down in the mud to keep civilization alive. We're almost there again.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.