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To: Dark Wing

Have you read “Death Traps” by Belton Cooper?

I found it very interesting.


50 posted on 11/03/2014 2:09:28 PM PST by nascarnation (Toxic Baraq Syndrome: hopefully infecting a Dem candidate near you)
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To: nascarnation

>>Have you read “Death Traps” by Belton Cooper?

I own it and have read it. Cooper is great in telling stories of his own service.

Not so much regards his writing on Patton, the poor gun power of the Sherman and the delay in getting the M26 Pershing...not so much.

See these for the “Sherman versus Panther/Big Cat scandal”

The Chieftain’s Hatch: US Guns, German Armour, Pt 1
http://worldoftanks.com/en/news/pc-browser/21/chieftains-hatch-us-guns-vs-german-armour-part-1/

The Chieftain’s Hatch: US Guns, German Armour, Pt 2
http://worldoftanks.com/en/news/pc-browser/21/us-guns-german-armor-part-2/

See these regards the Pershing:

Pershing Production Pt1
http://forum.worldoftanks.asia/index.php?/topic/36449-pershing-production-pt1/

The Chieftain’s Hatch: Pershing, Pt2
http://worldoftanks.com/en/news/pc-browser/21/The_Chieftains_Hatch_Pershing_2/


52 posted on 11/03/2014 2:39:46 PM PST by Dark Wing
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To: nascarnation
This is the best review of DEATH TRAPS I have seen, also from “Chieftain”

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/395038-rants-and-death-traps/

Here's the issue: Death Traps is a memoir, not a researched historical work. These are the recollections and perceptions as the man saw them, recited some 50 years after the fact. This leads us to two problems:

Firstly, that of perception. The premise of the book, even the title, is that M4s were rolling coffins, and got destroyed a lot. He gets this impression by looking at all the M4s which got brought back to his maintenance shop for repair after getting knocked out. He did not get to see any of the German vehicles which were knocked out, as nobody brought them to him for repair. He did not get to see the M4s which won the battle, as nobody brought them to him for repair. As someone who saw nearly nothing but destroyed Shermans coming out of battles, it is not unreasonable to come to the perception that the tank was problematic.

Secondly, the author makes no attempt to distinguish what he saw from what he surmised, from what he heard through the grapevine. He presents as fact things which simply were not true, demonstrably so in many cases. No attempt was made to provide a source or reference to some of the claims he makes. It is up to the reader to make his or her personal determination as to the accuracy of anything in the book.

It is likely that the things he personally saw are somewhat close to fact. But statements about machinations seven pay grades higher than him and several hundred miles away are a little more suspect.

Cooper's book is probably the most egregious example of citing a memoir and making more of it than one should, so I merely use it as a learning point. Less controversial memoirs, such as Carius’ Tigers in the Mud or Loza’s Commanding the Red Army's Sherman Tanks should be viewed just as much from the same lens, but in fairness to them, they suffer from far less overreach and can be taken far more at face value.

69 posted on 11/07/2014 5:42:11 PM PST by Dark Wing
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