Posted on 07/29/2003 7:26:55 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
You: I thought sanctification comes from God, not from ourselves....
Yes, it is God that makes us holy, as I said, see below. We are only doing what He wants us to do. Are you saying we should not be making consistent, righteous choices? Are you saying that such behavior does not build men and women of good character?
If "make your calling and election sure" sounds like we do that ourselves (we don't), I am using Peter's phrasing.
Me: Those who are in heaven are those who freely choose to forsake all evil, and become firmer and firmer in righteous ways by consistent, righteous choices, until they become stedfast, unshakeable, and immovable in keeping the commandments of God, and thus make their calling and election sure, sanctified by the Holy Spirit, for no unclean thing can enter heaven.
You: Sounds like works based theology to me.
Are you trying to play the "works" card? Would you do that?
Do you hesitate to partake of the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper on Sunday because the guy next to you might call it a "work"?
Or would you tell him that Jesus said, "Do this in remembrance of Me"?
Is doing what Jesus wants us to do a "work", meaning something bad? Is it "works-based theology" to do as Jesus says?
Look at the verses below, all from the epistles of Paul (and the author of Hebrews). Maybe you would accuse Paul of "works-based theology":
1 Cor. 15: 58
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
2 Tim. 3: 17
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Col. 1: 10
10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
Eph. 2: 10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
2 Thes. 2: 17
17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
1 Tim. 2: 10
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1 Tim. 6: 18
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
Titus 1: 16
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Titus 3: 8
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Heb. 10: 24
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Philip. 2: 12
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Heb. 13: 21
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Lots more where these came from.
#1, this doesn't apply to the sperm donor type of absentee "father" who doesn't give a rat's behind about anyone but himself.
#2, certainly some people are ill fit, which is to say mentally defective and may truly think they "love" their children, but they do not.
This is a segment of the population I happen to work with and this is certianly true!
Then you understand the capacity for self-delusion! A mother who let's the step father beat a 2 year old with a belt may profess "love" for her child, but she isn't really showing it in her choices.
You seem to be operating with a definition of "love" which is purely sentimental and emotional and bears no relation to behavior. I won't make the obvious comments.
So, apparently the "decision" to "love your children" does not gaurantee that one would, in reality, love their children at all.
Words are cheap. Love without works is dead, to paraphrase James. You choose to actually, really love your children, not with lip service, but with the true love of a parent. Congratulations. Not every one does.
SD
Hmmmm....interesting! It seems that you are saying that these people who have "decided" and "chosen" to love their children are actually incapable of doing so!
In fact, they can "decide" all day long to "love their children", but it seems you are saying they don't have the ability to do so! "You seem to be operating with a definition of "love" which is purely sentimental and emotional and bears no relation to behavior. I won't make the obvious comments."
Not at all. I'm presuming that "love" is far more than "setiment" and "emotion". That is why I said that these people " they can "decide" to "love their children" all day long, but they are too selfish to actually do so"
It seems that you are concurring with me that some people are incapable, regardless of what they "choose" or "will", to actually love their children. What I said stands, I can no more "choose" to ~NOT~ love my children than I first chose to do so. I simply do. Thankfully, God has given me both that desire to do so as well as the ability to do so.
Jean
If you ever watch the movie Pink Floyd The Wall, near the beginning during the concert/riot scene, there are some really big KMET posters on the walls (natch) in the background.
KLOS always sucked and KMET always ruled!
at least, of course, before I descovered KROQ (which ruled from about 1981-1985, sucked until 1989, was sort of good, but then went back to being terrible around 1994 and hasn't recovered since)
pony
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