Vatican Document Calls Celibacy Non-Negotiable

The San Diego Channel ^ | 6/28/03 | Associated Press

[MVV]

Thank god!

[MVV]

FYI! Long live Pope John Paul!

[Torie]

Instead, it says current priests should dedicate themselves to attracting more candidates by better explaining the priesthood to lay Catholics, and by encouraging children to consider religious vocations.

Somehow, the phraseology suggests a tin ear. Either the Church or I am behind the looking glass, on the far side of reality.

[The Iguana]

Given that celibacy is a question of discipline rather than doctrine this policy is of course open to change in the future.

Women "priestesses" are another story.

Allowing married priests may well help address the priest shortage (better recruitment and an adherence to orthodoxy in the seminaries would also help). But it may well create as many problems as it solves.

Thanks for the update.

[Incorrigible]

Paging Mr. Sinkspur, paging Mr. Sinkspur. Pick up the white courtesy phone please.

[John Beresford Tipton]

"the priesthood to lay Catholics,
and by encouraging children"

No, better not go *there*.....

[dead]

They're bluffing!

The priests need to counter-offer with cash, draft picks, and a couple of prospects.

They may even be able to salary dump, if they can unload one of their tainted bishops.

[Torie]

No we should not, and particularly clerics should not, at least not right now.

[sinkspur]

"A revision of the present discipline in this regard would not help to resolve the crisis of vocations to the priesthood being felt in many parts of Europe," the document said.

The Vatican gives no evidence, of course, hoping that by fiat its declaration reflects reality.

It may or may not be true that married priests would relieve the shortage of priests, but the Vatican will never know, since it refuses to discuss the issue, or even commission a study of it. "A commitment to the service of the Gospel of hope also demands that the Church make every effort to propose celibacy in its full biblical, theological and spiritual richness."

The only thing Catholics see in a celibate priesthood is a predominance of homosexuals. One thing's for sure: a married priesthood may or may not bring more men into the priesthood, but it will bring heterosexual men into the priesthood, which might be a good place to begin discussing celibacy in its full biblical and spiritual richness for those who choose to accept it.

Catholics also see married Protestants being accepted into the priesthood, and many are scratching their heads trying to understand why married life-long Catholic men aren't deserving of the priesthood, too.

I've noticed the Vatican seems to issue one of these "celibacy forever" documents on a yearly basis, almost as if it is trying to convince itself that, yep, we're right on this one.

[sinkspur]

In fact, one of the major thrusts of the document is a reiteration of Christianity's heritage in Europe, and an exhortation by the pope that European leaders drafting the first EU constitution make reference to the role Christianity has played in shaping the continent.

On a second reading of the article, I'm wondering if the Vatican's statements are nothing but the usual boilerplate on celibacy. The timing of this document and its major theme seems to be a slap at the EU for not highlighting the role of Christianity in its constitution.

[sinkspur]

My quotations above are from another, more complete, article from the religion forum.

I also cut and pasted, since the AP article is nothing but fluff.

[DallasMike]

Given that celibacy is a question of discipline rather than doctrine....

Thank you for being knowledgeable and well-reasoned. Not many people realize this fact and they go to great lengths to try and prove that the Bible somehow requires clergy to be celibate.

[Real Cynic No More]

I'm surprised that no one on this forum has stated the obvious:

It's not ok for priests to marry, but they can remain priests after having sex with men and boys. What is it that's wrong for a priest to have sex with women, but not other guys?

[MonroeDNA]

When did the catholics go to celibacy, anyway?

Were earlier catholics wrong?

[Cicero]

Good news. Since Protestant ministers can marry, not all Protestant Freepers may understand why. But it's part and parcel of the fact that the best allies for conservative Protestant Evangelicals to work with are loyal, conservative Catholics. They are allied on such issues as abortion, morality, the family, and avoidance of corrupt socialist politics.

It was a red herring to believe that the road to better relations (ecumenicism) was for each side to compromise their principles until they looked exactly alike. That's the road of the least common denominator, the road taken by the liberal mainstream churches. What it leads to is a gradual dying away of any kind of genuine Christian commitment.

To put it another way, the liberals at the Boston Globe and the New York Times say that the solution to the Catholic Church's problems is for priests to marry and for women priests to be ordained. Considering who is giving this advice, it should be a serious warning to any Christian that it would be highly destructive. Its intention is to help clear all serious Christians out of the way, because they interfere with the liberal agenda.

As a Catholic who has had a close professional relationship with many Evangelicals, I can guarantee from my own experience that the best Catholic partners are the ones who are loyal to their Church, and in turn the best partners for serious conservative Catholics in their efforts to reform our country have turned out to be Evangelicals.

[sinkspur]

It's not ok for priests to marry, but they can remain priests after having sex with men and boys. What is it that's wrong for a priest to have sex with women, but not other guys?

Well, it's not true now that priests could molest young boys and remain in the priesthood, but it was obviously quite common over the last thirty years for them, in fact, to get new parishes, which meant fertile new ground for their perversions.

One thing has always been true, however: Mess with a woman, and you were shown the door, with your laicization papers flying through the Vatican like Dale Earnhardt Jr.'s car at Daytona.

And no bishop, ever, has tried to retain the services of a priest who fell into the arms of a woman.

[Cicero]

The history of Catholic celibacy is disputed. Liberals vehemently argue that it's a recent invention. But there is good reason to believe that the priesthood has been celibate from the beginning and through most of history, although there have been periods when discipline has widely lapsed, as you might expect of human beings. Priests, bishops, and even popes have had mistresses, but those were abuses, not policy.

[sinkspur]

To put it another way, the liberals at the Boston Globe and the New York Times say that the solution to the Catholic Church's problems is for priests to marry and for women priests to be ordained. Considering who is giving this advice, it should be a serious warning to any Christian that it would be highly destructive.

Women cannot be priests for solid theological reasons, but celibacy is not in the same category.

Cicero, we don't know whether allowing married men to be priests would be destructive or not, because the Vatican won't discuss it, won't study it, won't even permit bishops who want to commission a study to be heard.

The Catholic Church commissions all kinds of studies, including the effects of inculturation on the local cultures, but on the priesthood, whose numbers are dwindling in the Western countries, which means Catholics will have to go without the Mass and the Eucharist, all the Vatican can say is "We know better."

[sinkspur]

The history of Catholic celibacy is disputed.

It has never been disputed that celibacy is "of the essence" of the Catholic priesthood.

It's not.

[MVV]

How did I know that someone would bring that up, it was only a matter of time. Not all priests are pedi's, there are thousands of wonderful, loving and selfless priests out there, who work tirelessly for their parish, my pastor included! I for one am in favor of keeping our catholic priest celibate!