An Open Letter to the Church Renouncing My Service on I.C.E.L.

Communicantes (Newsletter of the Society of St. Pius X in Canada) ^ | October 2002 | Rev. Fr. Stephen Somerville

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

The Neverending Story was originally started by a Catholic

Becky

[sitetest]

Hey! I nailed #900!!

[Zviadist]

Indeed, if that is what we alleged, we would be wrong. But neither BlackElk nor I are saying that the pope gets to invent Tradition.

Then how do you explain the new "Mass"?

[Zviadist]

Ergo, the SSPX shills lie when they say these two men are similar in similar times.

You are just like your dishonest buddies on this thread. I post from a Monsigneur, a Church scholar, who refutes your "learned" opinion of St. Athanasius and his actions against a heretical pope, and your response? You sensed that he was biased so you disregarded his entire scholarship. Then you parade around as if you have deftly defeated the argument and therefore the case is closed. You are a joke.

[Zviadist]

892 Divine assistance is also given to the successors of the apostles, teaching in communion with the successor of Peter, and, in a particular way, to the bishop of Rome, pastor of the whole Church, when, without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing in a "definitive manner," they propose in the exercise of the ordinary Magisterium a teaching that leads to better understanding of Revelation of faith and morals.

Your post undermines your position. Particularly the above, which far from granting sweeping authority, actually specifies the limitations on the pope. A careful reading should confirm to a reasonably able mind that this passage emphasises that the only times non-infallible pronouncements have Divine assistance is when these "lead to better understanding of Revelation of faith and morals." This binds the pope to existing tradition, as ultima has asserted. It is really quite plain.

[sitetest]

Dear Zviadist,

"This binds the pope to existing tradition..."

You're arguing against someone other than BlackElk or me or Catholicguy, or any of the other Catholics here. We haven't claimed the pope is not bound to Tradition.

Of course he is.

But each pontiff, during his reign, is the final arbiter to say what is that Tradition to which he, and we, are bound.

You think the pope's teachings have violated Tradition, perhaps. Perhaps you believe that he has departed from Sacred Tradition. Perhaps you, and five archbishops and a stray cardinal and 427 priests and half a dozen monsignors and some liturgists (God save us from liturgists) all think that he has departed from Sacred Tradition.

The pope disagrees.

The pope's opinion counts. In fact, if taught to the entire Church, the pope's view of Tradition binds. With Divine assistance.

Your opinion, and all your friends, and mine, aren't worth a warm bucket of spit.

If you find yourself in disagreement with the Supreme Pontiff of the Holy Catholic Church as to what constitutes Catholic faith, you are wrong. And he is right.

This is "BlackElk's Law of basic Catholic theology".


sitetest

[Zviadist]

Wasn't that guy a homo or something? I seem to recall one of these fanatical anti-SSPX gangs were a bunch of flamers who were outed by their SSPX chapel and thereafter turned against the SSPX...

[RobbyS]

Of course, someone "invented" the "old" mass. It only dates back to the 4th Century. We should never forget that it originated as the Latin translation and revision of the Greek Liturgy.

[Zviadist]

the Mormon leadership at the JBS.

Didn't realize this. Interesting.

[Catholicguy]

<> Bud, are you saying that Mr. McElhinney is axe-grinding due to problems he had in his former sspx parish?

[ultima ratio]

The analogy is apt. Athanasius was surrounded by a sea of heresy and heretical bishops against which the pope of his day was ineffectual and pusillanimous, at one point falling himself into heresy, though probably only materially. The similarity to our own times is uncanny. Almost nothing at all remains of the old Catholic Church except for its hierarchy. The Mass and the sacraments as we knew them are gone, the priesthood has been eviscerated, the religious orders have been corrupted, the faithful have been protestantized, Catholic doctrines have been suppressed and Catholic culture destroyed. Even the canonization process has been blatantly falsified. Thank God Archbishop Lefebvre was able to stand against all this to assure the survival of the faith.

[ultima ratio]

Zambian archbishop admits marriage 'mistake'

A Zambian Catholic archbishop who wed a Korean acupuncturist now says his marriage was a mistake.

Archbishop Emmanuel Milingo married Maria Sung in a mass wedding blessed by the Reverend Sun Myung Moon last year.

He later rejected the marriage on an appeal from Pope John Paul II and was sent on a year-long spiritual retreat to Argentina to make peace with the Church.

Returning home he told reporters at Lusaka International Airport: "I do realize that there are hundreds of thousands of supporters who depend on me for pastoral guidance and as such I belong to them all."

[Zviadist]

Hey...it's all about ecumenism. This priest will likely be promoted for his "outreach to other faiths."

[ultima ratio]

My favorite statement of his is about his concern for the hundreds of thousands of people who depend on him for "pastoral guidance." Shows a lot of sensitivity to his vocation, don't you think? Amazing what a year in Argentina will do. He's probably even stopped worshipping Reverend Moon by now.