Posted on 11/29/2002 5:00:21 PM PST by Loyalist
Sinkspur, if you're trying to portray the Roman Rite's use of Latin as an offense you must acknowledge that you stand outside the Church in this accusation. This notion not only goes beyong Vatican II, it is explicitly contrary to it.
If you're in the SSPX (which you are), then american colleen is dead on.
And you are downright unpleasant at the time I tried to reach out and mend fences.
Mend fences? Telling someone that, unless they attend the Tridentine Mass, they are on the path to hell is hardly "mending fences."
The lovely "american colleen" is much more amenable to your lofty-sounding nonsense then I am, because she's nicer than I am.
You and ultima ratio are a tag team who, like a wind-up dolls, rail and raise hell against the Novus Ordo, John Paul II, and those of us who follow his directives.
Come back to earth, bub. Those of you who think your measly efforts at trying to force the Tridentine Mass back on the liturgical stage will bear fruit are mistaken!
The next Pope is likely to be an African or a South American or an Italian.
Not a single cardinal representing those nationalities is known to favor a return to the pre-Vatican II Church. Not one. In fact, you better pray an Italian doesn't succeed John Paul II, as any one of the majority of the Italians would be likely to take the Church to the fullness of Vatican II.
BTW, you guys better be pushing the Unabomber-loving Williamson to make peace with John Paul II; an Italian Pope is likely to tell your little sect to wander in the wilderness.
This was my experience at the Tridentine as well. But sinkspur claims it was different in his experience.
I'm honestly curious to hear from the Orthodox in this, because I definitely remember reading about private devotions during the Orthodox Mass. It would be instructive to compare.
God only understands Latin?
I got news: my private prayers to God are in English.
You speak as if the Novus Ordo didn't set a precedent for changing this sort of thing. In good humor can you at least see the irony?
The use of Latin is not an offense; it's just not done very often!
What is the Western Church's practice? Vernacular liturgy. And there is not going to be any reimposition of Latin on Catholics who have two generations of vernacular liturgies in their background.
The Jesuits in the USA (10 provinces) have been averaging 40-50 novices per year total, according to the Society of Jesus (USA) website. A far cry from the days when they had that, and more, in every province.
The FSSP averages about 10-15 new seminarians a year in Nebraska, while drawing from a significantly smaller pool. It turns men away for lack of space. No doubt, the SSPX does as well. The Jesuits have far more resources on their side and yet harvest far fewer vocations per capita.
Catholic orthodoxy and tradition sells, to juring and non-juring Catholic men, alike.
Irony? Celebrating the principal Mystery of the Catholic Faith in a language understood by all seems the height of good sense.
Something the Holy Spirit always seems to inject into history at just the right moment.
Description of Scalia's take on the ACTUAL words of the Pope. Refer to my earlier post.
The Pope may have argued that the death penalty, in his opinion, is not appropriate under any circumstances. BUT HE DID NOT CHANGE THE POSITION OF THE CHURCH.
Sinkspur, there was an imposition of the vernacular on Catholics who had countless generatations of Latin liturgies in their background. That doesn't make two generations of vernacular a terribly daunting barrier.
Mind you, I neither think the vernacular is going away within my lifetime, nor do I think it a wise idea to rip away established liturgical traditions. This is one of the reasons I find the manner the Novus Ordo was imposed to have been senseless and brutal. It's not something I'd like to see the Church ever revisit on you or any other Catholic.
The SSPX is outside the Catholic Church. Filling seminaries with schismatics is good news only in the hope that one of them will bring the SSPX to its senses and lead it back to reunion with Rome.
Apparently you can't see it. God bless.
I am in union with the pope. Who the hell are you to suggest I am not?If you're in the SSPX (which you are), then american colleen is dead on.
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The Society of Saint Pius X professes filial devotion and loyalty to Pope John Paul II, the Successor of Saint Peter and the Vicar of Christ. The priests of the Society pray for His Holiness and the local Ordinary at every Mass they celebrate.
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I guess I can't.
God bless you too, even if you don't need it.
You are not in union with the Church.
You said it best. I would add that they also don't give a rotten fig about it...
Believe me I do. Not everyone you argue with on these matters thinks themself to be a saint. I'm far from it and need all the help I can get. ...
Even if it's in Latin. ;-)
You are an elitist snob. You chide me for having "the new Mass and the new catechism and the new rubrics and the new etc.," when you are doing nothing to work for change.
I love the Tridentine Mass, but forcing it on the masses would have a horrible effect. I tell everyone I know about the available Tridentine in my state and everyone oohs and ahhs, but not one person has ever expressed an interest in attending, even when I offer to drive.
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