An Open Letter to the Church Renouncing My Service on I.C.E.L.

Communicantes (Newsletter of the Society of St. Pius X in Canada) ^ | October 2002 | Rev. Fr. Stephen Somerville

[Zviadist]

You know what I find amazing? This post was about a major figure in the establishment of the New Mass publicly renouncing what was essentially his life's work. It is a truly amazing and phenomenal event. So what do the usual suspects proceed to do on this thread? Scream "heretic" and "schismatic" at traditionalists even as one of their heros renounces all that he has done. Talk about terrified obfuscation of the issue. Aside from the passing "we all knew ICEL was bad" from a few of the neos, not a word about what this thread is actually about. I would say it is about panic time for them. I can see no other explanation for their deliberate refusal to deal with the matter at hand, the topic of this article.

[drstevej]

***One whiff of late Baroque and forget guitars.***

I suppose three large screens and powerpoint wouldn't be your cup of tea?

[Desdemona]

I suppose three large screens and powerpoint wouldn't be your cup of tea?

Uh, no. They used two at a concert I sang at my church job and...they need a Mac.

Nope. Sorry. I don't even like electric pianos.

[ninenot]

You certainly can spout "post hoc, propter hoc" argumentation. Unfortunately, logic demands better.

You won't catch me defending Bugnini, or the prudential judgment errors of Paul VI (who finally DID figure out that B. was a snake--in the Genesis sense.) You won't catch me defending ICEL, that gang of bedwetting intellectualoid subversives and fellow-travelers.

But you will NEVER catch me disputing the authority of the Pope (and ONLY the Pope) to regulate the Liturgy.

That's an authority you just can't submit to.

[Desdemona]

You know what I find amazing? This post was about a major figure in the establishment of the New Mass publicly renouncing what was essentially his life's work. It is a truly amazing and phenomenal event.

You are correct. But, at the same time, this is not an event which should be used to bash the current pope. It was so many posts ago, I don't remember how it got started.

Bottom line is that one of the primary architects of the NO is denouncing it and all that precipitated from it. And this won't get much play outside conservative circles. In fact, it's going to put a whole lot of people's underwear in a bundle, starting with a person in my house (not me).

Actually, break out the brie, Vermont cheddar, apples and martinis (household football snacks). This is going to be entertaining.

[ninenot]

Or do you understand the Catholic doctrine of infallibility at all?

Apparently you have chosen to confuse Papal authority over the Liturgy (cf. Canon Law) with infallibility.

And you then state that I don't understand infallibility?

You don't understand the Church--but that's not a surprise.

[ultima ratio]

1. Unity with the Pontiff does not mean one must agree with everything he teaches or practices, especially when these run directly counter to the teachings and practices of all other popes and councils.

2. The real question is whether this Pope is in unity with Tradition--which he often opposes, but which he has taken a solemn oath to defend. Obedience is the servant of faith, faith is not the servant of obedience.

3. I have never rejected the papacy or the Pope. That you say this does not therefore make it true. It would be convenient to you if it were true, since it would put me clearly beyond the pale of Catholicism, but it is not true, and I am very much a practicing Catholic--one who speaks out and does not shy away from saying the emperor--our Pope--has no clothes. I fully admit I reject some idolatrous actions of this Pope; I reject his persecution of traditionalists; I reject his corresponding support of apostate prelates; I reject his lack of initiative in the matter of instituting necessary reforms in the seminaries. These are CRITICISMS. I will even concede they may be impolitic and discourteous and insufferably impudent. BUT I DO NOT REJECT THE POPE. Got it? I am not and never have been a sedevacantist or a Protestant. So your continuing to say this is another smear on your part. Try dealing with me as a Catholic. Then I might find what you have to say more convincing. As it is, you sound ludicrous since your only argument is that I am supposed to be doing what I know I am not doing.

[ninenot]

We already sent you guys Scott Hahn

And thanks, BTW.

But if you keep hanging around these threads, sooner or later, you'll want to post as an 'active participant.'

The path's been cleared by Hahn. Take a short walk.

[narses]

"We already sent you guys Scott Hahn..."

Actually, he came home. The Fatted Calf awaits Dr Steve. Come Home for the Holydays.

[ninenot]

It's amazing the people who refuse to grow beyond what Oregon Catholic Press publishes.

An excellent article on their crap appears this month in your hometown's most excellent publication, the Adoremus Bulletin. Call Jim Hitchcock at StLouisU. for a copy.

This AM we sang the Kyrie and Agnus Dei from Mass IX, the Alma Redemptoris Mater, an Anglicized version of Rorate Coeli (original melody,) and a 16th Century English motet on an Advent theme.

Just a regular parish choir, NO Mass, with Asperges beforehand.

Weren't you considering a move to Milwaukee??

[Zviadist]

But, at the same time, this is not an event which should be used to bash the current pope. It was so many posts ago,

Nor should the admitted bitter fruits of Somerville's work be used to praise the current pope as if he were a god, which has been going on with the neo-Caths here for ages and again on this thread.

As was relayed recently in an SSPX newsletter:

"For instance, when Italian journalist Vittorio Messori interviewed recently Pope John Paul II for one of his books, it appears that he tried repeatedly to get the Pope to admit that not all the fruits of the Council were good, but the Pope would not once admit it. As an SSPX colleague stationed in Italy says, this Pope has 'a mystic belief' in the Second Vatican Council.'"

This pope refuses to admit that any of the fruits of Vatican II were bitter, while all around him the Church is falling apart. And still people like you scream that this pope is not to be criticized. That is what I mean when I talk about idolatry. It is not Catholic.

[ninenot]

I suppose three large screens and powerpoint wouldn't be your cup of tea?

THere's a VERY LARGE non-denominational Christian church about 3 miles from my house. I have NEVER seen so much electronic equipment in my life as they have for their musical presentations. Honestly, there are TV stations with less investment.

(Here's my nasty side) They need it to make up for the lack of the Real Presence. All He needs is one red candle.

[drstevej]

I appreciate the offer but I have a better invitation. My Home is Heaven, not Rome.

[Zviadist]

I have never rejected the papacy or the Pope. That you say this does not therefore make it true. It would be convenient to you if it were true, since it would put me clearly beyond the pale of Catholicism, but it is not true, and I am very much a practicing Catholic--one who speaks out and does not shy away from saying the emperor--our Pope--has no clothes. I fully admit I reject some idolatrous actions of this Pope; I reject his persecution of traditionalists; I reject his corresponding support of apostate prelates; I reject his lack of initiative in the matter of instituting necessary reforms in the seminaries. These are CRITICISMS. I will even concede they may be impolitic and discourteous and insufferably impudent. BUT I DO NOT REJECT THE POPE. Got it? I am not and never have been a sedevacantist or a Protestant. So your continuing to say this is another smear on your part. Try dealing with me as a Catholic. Then I might find what you have to say more convincing.

Well said. This all goes for me and then some! (Of course it is easier for them to scream "schismatic!!!" and be done with it.)

[Desdemona]

Call Jim Hitchcock at StLouisU. for a copy.

Dr. Hitchcock? Hey did you know his daughter, a classmate of mine, was named house counsel to the Chairman of the SEC. I think. Some high level goverment job.

This AM we sang the Kyrie and Agnus Dei from Mass IX, the Alma Redemptoris Mater, an Anglicized version of Rorate Coeli (original melody,) and a 16th Century English motet on an Advent theme.

Why can't we have great music directors here? They're all addicted to Marty Haugen, David Haas and the Jesuits (blech) and program out of the "Liturgy Today" magazine. I just hate it. It's a remnant of the great experimental stuff in liturgy that appearantly started at Lindell and Grand. What a shame. The big problem seems to be that people just aren't interested in better stuff.

Weren't you considering a move to Milwaukee??

As cold as I was out in the fields looking for a Christmas tree yesterday, no. We have to be the only people who go out to cut a tree in a U-haul. (Well, we WERE moving furniture, too. It was just convenient.)

[drstevej]

Haven't been to the church near you. However, as we celebrated the Table of the Lord this morning I rejoiced at His Presence as I remembered the high price He paid to redeem me. His words, "It is finished" resonnated in my heart and mind as I partook of the bread and the cup.

Ninenot, I was Home in His presence. I didn't see a red candle, but as I held the unleavened bread I contemplated His broken body for me. As I drank from the cup I was overwhelmed that He would shed His blood that I might partake in the New Covenant.

BTW, the sermon was given by a young man who grew up in our church and served as youth pastor for three years prior to entering seminary a year an a half ago. He did a great job of unfolding the passage. God's grace in this young man's life is so obvious. We will likely, Lord willing, send 4 or 5 more qualified men to seminary in the next three or four years. They are already praying and planning!

[Desdemona]

This pope refuses to admit that any of the fruits of Vatican II were bitter, while all around him the Church is falling apart. And still people like you scream that this pope is not to be criticized.

I was brought up not to question or criticize the pope. But then I also grew up in the midst of the 70's liturgical experimentation and "experiences."

What his reasoning is, I don't know. I do think, though, that it's somewhat healthier to experience the modernism and realize it's wrong on one's own. We're definitely in the middle of that. The pope must have his reasons, but I would be willing to bet that this is an outgrowth of his time as a street priest. I know a few others who would never consider returning to pre-Vatican II. I doesn't suit their style.

There are people who will never entertain the idea that Vatican II was wrong in any way shape or form. And they're the ones who will scream bloody murder if the church reverts all at once. Better to do it incrementally.

[ninenot]

By rejecting the Pope's authority to promulgate the NO you reject the Pope. You cannot claim that rejection is equivalent to 'criticism.' 'Criticism' is what BlackElk, Salvation, AquinasFan, and many others, such as Desdemona and yours truly do--and we do it without implying that the Pope is malevolent or intellectually deficient.

Prudential decisions are another thing. They are not necessarily vested with authority, as was the decision to implement the NO.

[ultima ratio]

Oh, but the Pope may be a modernist and yet not a formal heretic. It all depends on the state of his will and intellect--which I don't pretend to judge. But there can be no doubt his policies are modernist. In general his exaggerated ecumenism is modernist. Assisi would be one example. His slowness to reform the liturgy and to defend the doctrine of the Real Presence which has been seriously harmed by the Novus Ordo, would be another.

[ninenot]

Ah, Des, in Milwaukee we live INSIDE houses, not OUTSIDE of them. It's customary to have a furnace and heat the house during winter (and parts of summer, too.)

PAID full-time opera company, PAID positions in the Symphony Chorus (by audition,) PAID opera company chorus only 90 miles away.

And a Parish with REAL MUSIC.