Allah and the Real-World-Order

Can you (anyone) elaborate on to what these refer?

Islam is dead because the Islamic Empire was dismembered by the western powers during World War I. Its throne was abolished in 1924.
What throne?
[This is when the seventh king of prophecy—Islam—seized Jerusalem from the sixth king—Rome. The seventh king latter slew the sixth king at Constantinople in the fifteenth century.]
Who does he think Kings 1-5 are?
In turn, the west lost World War III on September 13, 2001.
To what event is he refering?

Thanks for any help.

I found my answers in your links. Thanks

From Turkey and the Beast, the author cites the empires are:

1. Egypt
2. Assyria
3. Babylon
4. Media-Persia
5. Macedonia/Graeca (Greece)
6. Rome
7. Islam
8. Islam Revived (the beast of Revelation 17)

Which I would revise to:

The empires are:
1. Egypt
2. Assyria
3. Judean
4. Babylon
5. Media-Persia
6. Macedonia/Graeca (Greece)
7. Rome (current empire when John wrote Revelation)
8. Islam (Babylon Revived, the beast of Revelation 17

I think this is a better fit because John said:

...because he once was, now is not, and yet will come. Rev 17:8b

and John said 'now is not' when Rome was the empire, hence the 8th king needed to have existed prior to John's day, not during John's day, and (perhaps Isalm fulfills prophecy) existing again after John's day. Casting Islam, as the 7th king and again revived as the 8th king, does not meet the criteria of scripture that the revived kingdom existed prior to John's day.

Further, I believe the Babylon in Revelation is Babylon, and not Rome, or the RCC, etc. The above fits with a more straight forward reading of scripture, hence to me is a 'better fit'. As Judea controlled the promised land when it was the empire, that does not conflict with the authors criteria either.

That said, much of what the author writes is geopolitical speculation, which bears further scrutiny. But I've always liked Islam as one of the end-time key players, though I tend to suspect Islam as "The Whore of Babylon" as I've previously posted here.

If you read the book -- Great Babylon: The Cry of the Watchman -- you will see the author draws a distinction between empires and nations. Israel/Judea has not yet become an empire as he defines it. It will in the 1,000 year reign to come.

Post # 81 on this thread -- The U.S. -- A Modern Babylon? -- lists 99 reasons America is Babylon. At the bottom of that thread, it links to Thread Two entitled Who are the Beasts of Daniel and Revelation? where there is more on the same subject. There are whole books and websites on the subject of America-Babylon. The beasts are being revealed and will be a surprise to many.

You might write to the author. He is on at least one forum and appears willing to talk. :)

I'll check it out. Thank you.

I will bet you would get an argument from any muslim regarding the God they profess to worship. Like I said it is perception, and nothing you or I say, is going to change the facts, or the truth, which will surely be revealed at the appropriate time.

It would seem Stewart Best's writings are no longer hosted at truinsight.com, and only two of his letters are at fivedoves.com, so do you have any current links on Best's writings?

Further, I believe the Babylon in Revelation is Babylon

Exactly. What nation is readying herself to take over Babylon, i.e. Iraq?

>I will bet you would get an argument from any muslim regarding the God they profess to worship. Like I said it is perception, and nothing you or I say, is going to change the facts, or the truth, which will surely be revealed at the appropriate time.

There is NO moral equivalency between Islam and Judaism/Christianity, i.e. between Muslims and their victims. To think so is to think like a liberal. To act like you have to come to consensus with the lie of tolerance, multiculturalism and ecumenism is to embrace whole hog the Strong Delusion.

Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

The Islamic agenda is for world control and they define "Peace" as world submission to Islam.

Yeshua (Jesus) said, Mt 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Let's look at the fruit of Islam:

Tolerating Intolerance: The Challenge of Fundamentalist Islam in Western Europe -- This an excellent link on the effect of Muslim immigration in Europe. MUST READ

Also note the similar effect in Denmark. SOMETHING ROTTEN IN DENMARK? - by Daniel Pipes. Excerpt:

August 27, 2002 -- A Muslim group in Denmark announced a few days ago that a $30,000 bounty would be paid for the murder of several prominent Danish Jews, a threat that garnered wide international notice. Less well known is that this is just one problem associated with Denmark's approximately 200,000 Muslim immigrants. The key issue is that many of them show little desire to fit into their adopted country.
For years, Danes lauded multiculturalism and insisted they had no problem with the Muslim customs - until one day they found that they did. Some major issues:

Living on the dole: Third-world immigrants - most of them Muslims from countries such as Turkey, Somalia, Pakistan, Lebanon and Iraq - constitute 5 percent of the population but consume upwards of 40 percent of the welfare spending. [See also, The Great Somali Welfare Hunt ]

Engaging in crime: Muslims are only 4 percent of Denmark's 5.4 million people but make up a majority of the country's convicted rapists, an especially combustible issue given that practically all the female victims are non-Muslim. Similar, if lesser, disproportions are found in other crimes.

Self-imposed isolation: Over time, as Muslim immigrants increase in numbers, they wish less mix with the indigenous population. A recent survey finds that only 5 percent of young Muslim immigrants would readily marry a Dane.

Importing unacceptable customs: Forced marriages - promising a newborn daughter in Denmark to a male cousin in the home country, then compelling her to marry him, sometimes on pain of death - are one problem. Another is threats to kill Muslims who convert out of Islam. One Kurdish convert to Christianity, who went public to explain why she had changed religion, felt the need to hide her face and conceal her identity, fearing for her life.

Fomenting anti-Semitism: Muslim violence threatens Denmark's approximately 6,000 Jews, who increasingly depend on police protection. Jewish parents were told by one school principal that she could not guarantee their children's safety and were advised to attend another institution. Anti-Israel marches have turned into anti-Jewish riots. One organization, Hizb-ut-Tahrir, openly calls on Muslims to "kill all Jews . . . wherever you find them."

Seeking Islamic law: Muslim leaders openly declare their goal of introducing Islamic law once Denmark's Muslim population grows large enough - a not-that-remote prospect. If present trends persist, one sociologist estimates, every third inhabitant of Denmark in 40 years will be Muslim.

>* Importing unacceptable customs:

Here is an unacceptable imported custom --

On our Australian 60 minutes last night was a woman who was raped by three at a train station then carted off to a park then raped by 25 individuals,Lebanese Muslims,they all called each other on mobile phones to come join the fun,at one stage they even hosed her off with a fire hose before the last 2 raped her. They called her 'Australian pig' etc.
21 posted on 8/11/02 5:54 PM Pacific by Crazymonarch

Small Scams Probed for Terror Ties

Indonesia: Persecuted Christian Men, Women and Children & Forced Circumcision by Muslims

Indonesian Christians Forcibly Converted to Islam

Infant rape crisis jolts South Africa: 21,000 incidents in 2000: "Raping babies does not cure AIDS"

70 girls attacked by Arabic rape gangs in Australia

These things ought not to be! But we are approaching the Great Tribulation...to try the saints and fry the ain'ts!

Coming to a war theatre in your home town...

The links I have for Stewart Best are now dead links because he changed his site. You might email him or I could give you the document titles and you could google them for mirror sites, if any. I have a ton of America-Babylon links but some are expired and other websites have closed down. Further, I stopped posting them because many would not endure them and have been feasting a Jezebel's Diner* and the noise there has deafened their ears. Try, "Mystery Babylon" "America" in a advanced Google search.

* See #20 here: What Jezebel says to the Church

My interspersed statements are in italics as follows. All other text is the author's or excerpts from scripture. Here is the post which I'm critiquing.

The poster never identified the source or author of these 99 parameters, so I don't know with whom I'm taking issue.

I sorted the 99 statements by leading scripture verse number (usually) so as to group them by reference to facilitate easier validation and analysis. The sorting is in scripture order with the author's statements indented below the scripture verse followed by my comments if I had a substantial disagreement. Suffice it to say I found the author's viewpoint entirely unsubstantiated, save for the possibility that America does possess many traits of Babylon described in Rev 18. But then so would Great Britain, Japan, Germany, Russia...the EU, etc. Nearly any contemporary G10 country or trading block like the EU or OPEC will demonstrate a fair degree of correspondence, as would any end-time corrupt trading nation. There are no 'good' nations in the end, only the Church.

My central criticisms are that:

1) Isaiah's and Jeremiah's 6th century BC prophecies of Cyrus taking Babylon in the 5th century BC have consistently been construed as applying to end-times Babylon. There is no support for this approach, either scripturally or historically.
2) The author seems to have started from a premise of wanting '99 parameters' of contemporary America, and then finding which OT or Rev verses can be forced to fit, and then randomizing that list. Starting from a search of scripture for passages applicable to end-times Babylon and then comparing those passages to contemporary America would yield an entirely different result, not the least of which would be foregoing the 'top 99 reasons' list.
3) There are additional criteria to identify end-times Babylon, such as John seeing her in a desert and who would be the Whore if America is Babylon. These aspects were ignored.

The subject is serious, but the author's treatment is frivolous.

Here then is the Author's (or Poster's) "closing" statement, which I've moved here to remind the reader of what the Author purports to demonstrate with the 99 verses cited as being "but a few of the many parameters listed ... that America does now or is in the process of fulfilling each and every one..."

These are but a few of the many parameters listed to help us identify this last great nation that the Lord calls BABYLON THE GREAT. America does now, or is in the process of fulfilling each and every one of them. No other nation upon the face of the earth can fulfill these parameters. AMERICA IS BABYLON THE GREAT. There would likewise be a series of SIGNS that would would begin to emerge that would give BIRTH TO, and WATCH THE RISE OF, as well as THE FALL OF AMERICA-BABYLON.

BABYLON THE NATION

Isaiah 13:5 They come from a far country, From the end of heaven-- The LORD and His weapons of indignation, To destroy the whole land.

79. Babylon's enemy will lie on the opposite side of the world, over the poles (Isa 13:5)
Isaiah 13 does have references to end-time Babylon. However, just as plausible here is that Babylon is Babylon (Iraq?) and America is attacking Babylon with missiles and high altitude jets; that America is not Babylon but rather is Babylon's enemy.

Isaiah 14:4-6 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon: How the oppressor has come to an end! How his fury has ended! 5 The LORD has broken the rod of the wicked, the scepter of the rulers, 6 which in anger struck down peoples with unceasing blows, and in fury subdued nations with relentless aggression.

60. THE KING OF BABYLON is called LUCIFER, the ANTICHRIST (Isa 14:4-6).
61. The King of Babylon will rule from THE GREAT CITY BABYLON (Isa 14:4-6; Rev 17: 18).
65. This entity will rise up and use the military power of Babylon the nation to RULE THE WORLD (Isa 14:4-6; Hab 1 & 2, Rev 13, 17).
There is nothing in Isa 14:4-6 which construes Lucifer as the King of Babylon, and these ISA 14:4-6 passages were fulfilled in 5th century BC.

Isaiah 14:20 You will not be joined with them in burial, Because you have destroyed your land And slain your people. The brood of evildoers shall never be named.

15. Babylon destroys her own land, with pollution and waste (Isa 14:20, 18:2, 7).
This is a 5th century BC Babylon reference. This is not a reference to pollution in the sense we know it today.

Isaiah 18:2 1 Woe to the land shadowed with buzzing wings, Which is beyond the rivers of Ethiopia, 2 Which sends ambassadors by sea, Even in vessels of reed on the waters, saying, "Go, swift messengers, to a nation tall and smooth of skin, To a people terrible from their beginning onward, A nation powerful and treading down, Whose land the rivers divide."

12. Babylon is nation "peeled", or timbered, a land of open fields (Isa 18:2).
13. Babylon is land quartered by mighty rivers (Isa 18:2).
14. Babylon is a land that is measured out, and populated throughout (Isa 18:2).
Obviously, Isaiah 18:2 is a prophecy against Ethiopia (or Cush), not Babylon, hence not end-times America.
Isaiah 47

75. Babylon is a VIRGIN NATION, untouched by major war (Isa 47:1).
2. Babylon would the QUEEN AMONG THE NATIONS (Isa 47:5,7; Rev 18:7).
5. Babylon is called a lady, and has the symbol of the Lady (Isa 47:7-9).
93. The people of Babylon would think they are God's elect and eternal (Isa 47:7-8, Rev 18:7).
97. The nation Babylon dwells carelessly before the Lord (Isa 47:8).
98. Babylon becomes proud, haughty, and does not consider her end (Isa 47:7-8).
99. Babylon deals in the occult, in sorceries and drugs (Isa 47:9, 12; Rev 18:23)
73. Babylon is a nation of higher education and learning (Isa 47:10, implied throughout).
85. The enemy of Babylon will come into Babylon unnoticed (Isa 47:11, Jer 50:24; 51:2, 14).
42. Babylon labored in the occult from her very inception (Isa 47:12).
48. The people of Babylon are deep into astrology and spiritism (Isa 47:12; Rev 18:2).
50. Babylon is a nation of religious confusion (Isa 47:12-13).
38. Babylon is a REPUBLIC or a DEMOCRACY, it is ruled by many counsels (Isa 47:13).
39. Babylon's governmental system breaks down (Isa 47:13).
40. Babylon is bogged down with deliberations and cannot govern properly (Isa 47:13).
41. Babylon's leaders use astrology, seers and mystics for guidance (Isa 47:13; Rev 18:2).
All of Isaiah 47 is in the context of Isaiah 45 (in which Cyrus is prophesied to take Babylon) through 47, to punish Babylon for cruelty against the Jews and arrogance against God. Again this is 5th century BC Babylon in view, not end-times Babylon, and hence not America.

Jeremiah 50:2-3 Declare among the nations, Proclaim, and set up a standard; Proclaim--do not conceal it-- Say, "Babylon is taken, Bel is shamed. Merodach is broken in pieces; Her idols are humiliated, Her images are broken in pieces.' 3 For out of the north a nation comes up against her, Which shall make her land desolate, And no one shall dwell therein. They shall move, they shall depart, Both man and beast.

95. The people of Babylon would grow mad upon their idols (Jer 50:2, 38; Hab 2:18).
78. Babylon will have a major enemy to her north (Jer 50:3, 9, 41).
Again, this is the 5th century BC capture of Babylon by Cyrus (who attacked from the North), not end-times Babylon.

Jeremiah 50:6 My people have been lost sheep. Their shepherds have led them astray; They have turned them away on the mountains. They have gone from mountain to hill; They have forgotten their resting place.

91. Babylon would be a home to multitudes of Jews who leave (Jer 50:4-6, 8; 51:6, 45)
46. Babylon's Christian leaders lead their flock astray in prophecy and salvation (Jer 50:6; implied Rev 18:2).
92. The people of Babylon would not know their true identity (Jer 50:6, implied throughout).
Babylon had no Christian leaders. Under Nebuchadnezzar, Babylon had Chaldeans who sacked the Northern and Southern Kingdoms and took Jews into captivity. The captive Jews are the lost sheep lead astray by their Jewish leaders. The Jews knew their identity and they weren't 'people of Babylon', they were captives.

Jeremiah 50:7 All who found them have devoured them; And their adversaries said, "We have not offended, Because they have sinned against the LORD, the habitation of justice, The LORD, the hope of their fathers."

51. Babylon turns upon its own people and imprisons and slays them by millions (Jer 50:7,33; 51:35; 39; Dan 7:25; Rev 13:7; 17:6; 18:24).
52. Babylon sets of detention centers for Jews and Christians and rounds them up for extermination (Jer 50:7, 33; 51:35, 49; Rev 17:6; 18:24).
Babylon did not turn on its own people. Babylon captured and/or killed Jews. They were not 'exterminated', but killed in battle or flight (which God forewarned them not to attempt), and there were no Christians when Nebuchadnezzar took them captive. This is history and prophecy fulfilled in the 5th century BC.

Jeremiah 50:9 For behold, I will raise and cause to come up against Babylon An assembly of great nations from the north country, And they shall array themselves against her; From there she shall be captured. Their arrows shall be like those of an expert warrior; None shall return in vain.

84. The enemy of Babylon will also have a huge aviation military machine (Jer 50:9, 14, Rev 18:8, 18 implied throughout).
82. The enemy of Babylon will have nuclear missiles capable of reaching Babylon (Jer 50:9, 14,; Rev 18:8, 18).
80. The enemy of Babylon will be a FEDERAL OF NATIONS (Jer 50:9).
These are references to Cyrus who attacked Babylon from the north and took it in 539 BC. Cyrus captured Babylon with horses and chariots, not planes and nuclear missiles. Again, this is history and prophecy fulfilled in the 5th century BC.

Jeremiah 50:11 Because you were glad, because you rejoiced, You destroyers of My heritage, Because you have grown fat like a heifer threshing grain, And you bellow like bulls,

45. Babylon turns upon its heritage and destroys it all in the end (Jer 50:11).
90. Babylon will have been a huge missionary nation for Jesus Christ (Jer 50:11; 51:7).
Babylon didn't have a heritage. The reference is to God's heritage, the Jews, and Babylonians were not missionaries for Christ, not in 6th century BC when Jeremiah prophesied.

Jeremiah 50:12 Your mother shall be deeply ashamed; She who bore you shall be ashamed. Behold, the least of the nations shall be a wilderness, A dry land and a desert.

1. Babylon would be the youngest and greatest of the end time nations (Jer 50:12).
44. Babylon was born as a CHRISTIAN NATION (Jer 50:12).
53. Babylon has a mother nation that remains in existence from her birth to death (Jer 50: 12).
56. The mother of Babylon will be a state of major decline as the end nears (Jer 50:12).
This verse is construed to give rise to the greatest Christian nation of end-times?

25. Babylon is a nation of farmers and harvests huge crops (Jer 50:16, 26, 27).

So is Canada.

Jeremiah 50:17 "Israel is like scattered sheep; The lions have driven him away. First the king of Assyria devoured him; Now at last this Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon has broken his bones."

81. The enemy of Babylon will be largely Moslem in make-up (Jer 50:17; Rev 17:16; Psalms 83:5-12).
The enemy in view here is the enemy of Israel, not of Babylon.

4. Babylon would be the HAMMER OF THE WHOLE EARTH (Jer 50:23; Rev 18:23).

This is 5th century BC, juxtaposing it with Rev 18 doesn't change that.

Jeremiah 50:26 Come against her from the farthest border; Open her storehouses; Cast her up as heaps of ruins, And destroy her utterly; Let nothing of her be left.

20. Babylon is a nation filled with warehouses and granaries (Jer 50:26).
23. Babylon is noted for her cattle, sheep and other livestock (Jer 50:26, 27; Rev 18:13).
The verse does not imply "filled", and "warehouses, and graneries" is an unsupported elaboration.

87. Babylon will have all of her borders cut off, and there will be no way of escape (Jer 50:28; 51:32).

Jer 50:28 has no such inference, and it's 5th century BC Babylon as well.

76. Babylon has a vast military machine (Jer 50:36; 51:30; Hab 1 & 2, Rev 13:4).

This describes the 5th century BC Babylonian "military".

Jeremiah 50:37 A sword is against their horses, Against their chariots, And against all the mixed peoples who are in her midst; And they will become like women. A sword is against her treasures, and they will be robbed.

22. Babylon is noted for her horses (Jer 50:37).
36. Babylon is nation filled with a "mingled" people (Jer 50:37).
66. Babylon is a huge producer and exporter of automobiles (Jer 50:37; Rev 18:13).
Nebuchadnezzar's army was noted for fierce horseman and charioteers. Babylon is not distinguished by horses and is not a producer of automobiles. This is the Babylon that was conquered by Cyrus, horses and all.

Jeremiah 50:47 [There is no such verse enumerated Jer 50:47]

77. Babylon will be instrumental in the setting up of Israel in the Middle East, and is the home of God's people (Jer 50:47; 51:45).
Regardless, Israel in the Middle East is already setup, since 1948, and it was the UK that was instrumental.

Jeremiah 51:13

16. Babylon is a land rich in mineral wealth (Jer 51:13).
18. Babylon is the leading exporting nation in the world (Jer 51:13; Rev 18).
34. Babylon is a coastal nation and sits upon MANY WATERS (Jer 51:13).
Inconclusive.

Jeremiah 51:38

57. Babylon is considered to be a lion's whelp (Eze 38:13; Jer 51:38).
Inconclusive.

6. Babylon would be the praise of the WHOLE EARTH (Jer 51:41).

But in 5th century BC.

7. Babylon is center of world trade (Jer 51:44; Rev 17:18; 18:19).

But in 5th century BC.

Jeremiah 51:51 We are ashamed because we have heard reproach.Shame has covered our faces, For strangers have come into the sanctuaries of the LORD's house.

47. Babylon's Christian leaders are "strangers" in the Lord Houses of Worship (Jer 51:51).
Again this is Jeremiah in the 6th century BC speaking about the Jewish temple. This is not a reference to either leaders or end-times Christians.

Jeremiah 51:53 Though Babylon were to mount up to heaven, And though she were to fortify the height of her strength, Yet from Me plunderers would come to her," says the LORD.

28. Babylon has a huge aviation program (Isa 14:13-14; Jer 51:53; Hab 1:6-10).
29. Babylon's skies are filled with the whisper of aircraft wings (Isa 18:1; Jer 51:53).
30. Babylon has a huge space industry, has "mounted up to the heavens" (Jer 51:53).
31. Babylon fortifies her skies with a huge military aviation program (Jer 51:53).
32. Babylon is portrayed as a leading in high tech weapons and abilities (Jer 51:53; Hab 1:6-10; implied throughout).
'mount up to heaven' is a reference to the tower of Babel (how Babylon got its name), not aerospace weapons. Reiterating essentially the same point 5 times based on the same verse is redundant and does not further identify, it is needlessly repetitious.

74. Babylon is a nation with a GREAT VOICE in world affairs (Jer 51:55)

Yes, but in 5th century BC.

Daniel 7:4 The first was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle. I watched until its wings were torn off and it was lifted from the ground so that it stood on two feet like a man, and the heart of a man was given to it.

54. The mother of Babylon has the symbol of the LION (Dan7:4; Eze 38:13; Jer 51:38; Psalms 17:12).
55. The mother of Babylon will rule over her daughter her entire life (Dan 7:4; Jer 50:12).
58. Babylon will have the symbol of the EAGLE and builds her nest in the stars (Dan 7:4 EAGLE WINGS; Isa 14:13-14; Jer 51:53).
This is Daniel's 1st Beast, with parallel visions in chapters 2 and 8, and is generally believed to refer to 6th century BC Babylon (different from the 4th beast which is an end-times kingdom) and not an end-times Babylon and hence could not identify America.

Daniel 7:7 After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast- terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.

63. This world entity will be a diverse entity, different than all other ruling bodies of the world (Dan 7:7, 23).
64. This entity will be a TREATY POWER ENTITY (Dan 7:7, 23 DIVERSE).
This is Daniel's 4th Beast, an end-times prophetic vision yet unfulfilled. Some believe this beast is 1st century AD Rome, but either way, it doesn't identify Babylon, and hence not America either.

Daniel 11:21 He will be succeeded by a contemptible person who has not been given the honor of royalty. He will invade the kingdom when its people feel secure, and he will seize it through intrigue.

86. Babylon will be filled with her enemies brought in under the guise of peace (Dan 11:21).
This is a reference to Antiochus IV Epiphanes, who seized power of Syria (175-163) of the Seleucid dynasty, not end-times Babylon.

Revelation 18

43. ~~Babylon~~America falls to the occult just before her end by nuclear fire (Rev 18:2)
59. ~~Babylon~~America turns totally antichrist and is the leading antichrist power at the end (Rev 18:2; Isa 14:4-6).
49. ~~Babylon~~America becomes the home of all antichrist religions in the world (Rev 18:2).
8. ~~Babylon~~America would grow to be the richest nation in the world (Rev 18:3, 7, 19, 23).
9. All nations that traded with ~~Babylon~~America would grow rich (Rev 18:3).
96. The people of ~~Babylon~~America would go into deep sins of all kinds (Rev 18:5).
94. The people of ~~Babylon~~America would enjoy the highest standard of living in the world (Rev 18:7).
71. ~~Babylon~~America is noted for her iron and steel production (Rev 18:12).
24. ~~Babylon~~America is noted for her fine flour and mill operations (Rev 18:13).
69. ~~Babylon~~America is a huge importer and exporter of spices (Rev 18:13).
35. ~~Babylon~~America trades with all who have ships in the sea year round (Rev 18:17-18).
33. ~~Babylon~~America is a nation filled with warm water seaports (Rev 18:17-19).<
26. ~~Babylon~~America is a huge exporter of MUSIC (Rev 18:22).
27. ~~Babylon~~America's musicians are known around the world (Rev 18:22)
68. ~~Babylon~~America is noted for her jewelry of gold and silver (Rev 18:22).
70. ~~Babylon~~America is a huge exporter of fine marble products (Rev 18:22).
10. The merchants of ~~Babylon~~America were the GREAT MEN OF THE EARTH (Rev 18:23).
72. ~~Babylon~~America has huge corporations that have bases around the world (Rev 18:23, implied throughout)
None of the references in Revelation 18 identifies Babylon as anything other than Babylon and it's characteristics. I won't repeat Rev 18 verse by verse here, but the phrasing of the characteristics in the list seems predisposed or biased to match America, rather than simply state what scripture says. While some of the characteristics are true of America, some are not. Most instructive is to replace Babylon with America in the author's list of Revelation cites and assess the interpretation. Again while much is true of America, it is also true of any G10 country or the EU, or OPEC, etc.

References to whole chapters and "Implied Throughout"

3. Babylon would be the most powerful nation in the world (Isa 47, Jer 50, 51, Rev 18).
11. Babylon is a huge nation, with lands, cities, and great wealth (implied throughout).
89. Babylon is land vast land with huge cities, towns and villages throughout (Implied throughout)
17. Babylon is a the leading agricultural nation of the world (Jer 50, 51; Rev 18).
19. Babylon is the leading importing nation of the entire world.(Jer 50, 51; Rev 18).
21. Babylon is the leading INDUSTRIAL NATION OF THE WORLD (Isa 13, 47, Jer 50, 51; Rev 18).
37. Babylon is a SINGULAR NATION founded upon OUT OF MANY, ONE (Isa 13, 47, Jer 50, 51, Hab 1).
62. A world government entity will rise up to rule the world from BABYLON THE CITY (Isa 14; Hab 2, Rev 13, 17, 18).
67. Babylon is a nation of CRAFTSMEN, experts in their trade (Jer 50, 51, Rev 18:22).
83. The enemy of Babylon will be noted for her cruelty (Isa 13, 14, Jer 50, 51, Rev 17, 18).
88. Babylon will be destroyed by nuclear fire (Implied throughout).
I won't bother to further critique these 'parameters', having already stated my essential criticisms above. The parameters are quite specific whereas the chapter reference or 'implied throughout' is too overly broad to lend itself to a verse by verse refutation. But I did want to faithfully reproduce them and account for them somewhere, so here they are.

In closing, I'd like to see the bar raised on the standard of research and writing that goes into this kind of material. The above lends credence to the accusation that Evangelicals, Pentecostal, 'rapturists', etc belong in the tin-foil hat crowd. This is a serious subject and lends itself to careful research, and the stakes are high. This is after all our Lord's Word we are bantering about, His lost sheep we are endeavoring to reach, His bride we are trying to edify, and His fruit we are trying to bear.

A red flag was waved and you obviously didn't get the message.

SOL on 8/23/01

An earnest deposit* picture of...

Revelation 18:15-19

15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

*728 arrhabon {ar-hrab-ohn'}
of Hebrew origin 06162; TDNT - 1:475,80; n m
AV - earnest 3; 3

1) an earnest
1a) money which in purchases is given as a pledge or downpayment
that the full amount will subsequently be paid

06162 `arabown {ar-aw-bone'}
from 06148 (in the sense of exchange); TWOT - 1686b; n m
AV - pledge 3; 3

1) pledge, security

06148 `arab {aw-rab'}
a primitive root; TWOT - 1686; v
AV - surety 9, meddle 2, mingled 2, pledges 2, becometh 1, engaged 1,
intermeddle 1, mortgaged 1, occupiers 1, occupy 1, undertake 1; 22

1) to pledge, exchange, mortgage, engage, occupy, undertake for, give
pledges, be or become surety, take on pledge, give in pledge
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to take on pledge, go surety for
1a2) to give in pledge
1a3) to exchange
1a4) to pledge
1b) (Hithpael)
1b1) to exchange pledges
1b2) to have fellowship with, share

What nation is readying herself to take over Babylon, i.e. Iraq?

I try not to post when I don't have something to add, but talk about a head-smacker! THWACK! I'm still seeing stars over that statement.