Posted on 10/29/2002 5:18:29 AM PST by xzins
Have you ever really listened to how "muesli" sounds? Made me think of chewin' on some 6 year old's winter coatsleeve in the "glisteny" section. Now that's fiber. :>)
Becky
I don't believe I used the word 'symbolic' or entertained the concept. Do you think that I did ?
Uh, yeah. Think about it. The Lord says "My flesh is true food" and "If you don't eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life within you."
We take that literally.
You cite a later verse about the "words" being "spirit" in order to come up with an interpretation that is non-literal. I don't see how this is anything other than symbolic, if it is not literal.
Every time this is discussed, the same verse is used to try to negate everything Jesus said. I don't understand why, so I ask. We are told that the "flesh" does not profit.
You yourself say this does not refer to the resurrection of the body. Then to what does it refer? Certainly not to Jesus' flesh, given "for the life of the world?"
Likewise we are told, over and over, that the "words" are "spirit," as if this is self-explanatory that the preceding verses are not to be taken in a literal fashion.
So I ask why "words" being "spirit" precludes a more literal interpretation of the preceding. Why? Logically, linguistically, why?
What I did do was to make the point that JESUS was encouraging and emphasizing SPIRITUALITY in the John 6 passage, as opposed to PHYSICALITY. He begins this emphasis in verse 26 of the passage and continues with it until the end of the chapter.
OK. And why can this "spirituality" not include the belief in the Presence of Jesus in the elements of Communion? It certainly is not something that is discerned by the human eye, or by our PHYSICAL scientific instruments. It is something discerned by faith, discerned by and for the spiritual part of our nature. The "flesh," our bodies, do not profit any more than a small cracker and a sip of wine nourish our flesh. But our SPIRIT profits greatly from this action.
SD
Exactly. Just like 2 Tim 3:16 is.
That verse has to do with being steadfast and patient when dealing with trials, the trying of your faith. How will you know how much faith you have if it is never tested.
Look at the language, Becky. Much hoopla is made out of the fact that if the servant of God can be made "perfect" with Scripture that this means Scripture is sufficient.
Then, using the same language, Scripture says that steadfastness can make a man perfect.
Using the principle that Scripture interprets Scripture, either the Bible is contradicting itself when it first says Scripture is sufficient, then says that steadfastness if sufficient. Which is it?
Or it is not arguing that either Scripture or steadfastness are sufficient.
SD
It is you are taking it out of context:) These two verses are speaking of entirely different topics.
Becky
Yes, of course there are two different topics. The point is that "Bible only" folks point to the language of being "made perfect," as if it, by itself, means something is sufficient for perfection.
Show us the context of 2 Tim 3 and why the "context" makes this different.
SD
Becky
OK. Now how do you justify this interpretation?
How does something being "profitable" or "useful" translate into it being "all we need?"
SD
James 1 is speaking of dealing with trials.
Becky
Becky
Right, and if steadfastness will make us perfect, then what else do we need?
You truly can't see the parallel?
Again, something is called, in Scripture, "useful" or "profitable," and you think that means that it is "all we need."
Or to use your analogy, without a comfy couch, your house is not "thoroughly furnished." Does that mean that we only need a couch to "thoroughly furnish" a house?
SD
The Epistles are the doctrinal teachings of the new church written by those that were there..not one reference to the bread being the actual body of Christ..a rememberance to be treated solomely like the passover..a holy time of Gods presence..but no mention that even the disciples that were there understood it to be the actual body..
No, I say it is all we need because of the "throughly furnished" part.
In the James verse, we PROVE we are throughly funished by our handling of the trying of our faith. Becky
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