Posted on 10/29/2002 5:18:29 AM PST by xzins
The Millenial reign will start out with no sin, but as new people are born into it they will still have the tendency to sin and when Satan is released their sin nature will come to full bloom and they will come against the Lord one final time. (Mt 13:24-30,36-43)
Let's assume that you have your Matthew 13 interpretation is correct for a moment. You are essentially telling me that these tares will be without sin at the start of the Millennial reign. The problem you have is that these tares are the Lord's enemies sown into His field by His enemy. In order for you to tell me that there is no sin, you must also tell me that being the enemy of the Lord is not a sin. And that you are not allowed to do.
Matthew 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.
These enemies of the Lord are by definition evil. The Holy Writ, which you are not allowed to contradict tells us that these evil men will bring forth evil treasures out of their hearts.
Plus, you have bigger problem:
Mark 7:6 He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: "This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me.
In order for you to maintain that these tares will not sin, you must also tell me that these people honor the Lord with their hearts. And this also you are not allowed to do per Matthew 13:35.
Your interpretation of Matthew 13 and the Millennial reign of Christ falls apart for at least 2 reasons:
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Unfortunately, this Millennial reign is nothing more than a charade or righteousness. There will be 1000 years in which the most hypocritical behavior the world has ever seen will be allowed to actually flower as the wicked reproduce. We will have moved from the seed sowing gospel era into the "seed" sowing age of hypocrisy and secret sins as these enemies of the Lord reproduce. This glorious paradise will be nothing more than a global "white washed tomb" spectacle of futility where the modus operandi will be to honor the Lord with the lips, but secretly despise Him with the heart.
But, this is really just the tip of the iceberg: If the Lord is not the God of these tares, then they will have as their god all manner of evil things. There will be flesh worship as men secretly lust after women who are not their wives; there will be idol worship of all kinds; there will be the worship of mammon; etc. Your Millennial reign will be a magnitude of order worse than the world today for its hypocritical charade.
As the Psalter puts it, "because Thy statutes are despised, with overwhelming grief I weep."
But, you actually have an even bigger problem than all of this: just exactly how are these people suppose to be saved when I am told that there will not be any preaching of the gospel in this so called white washed paradise?
Careful Mom, being an Amillenialist means you don't believe in a Tribulation anymore.
How so:
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Morning Ambassador, I'll respond to your earlier post, but I wanted to take this one first.
Why should their submission to Christ be hypocritical if they are not in their glorified bodies yet? Is your submission to Christ hypocritical? Are you in your glorified body yet?
Let’s take a look at Jesus’ interpretation of the parable found in Mt 13:24-30
Mt 13:
[37] He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
[38] The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
[39] The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
[40] As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
[41] The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
[42] And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
[43] Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
In Mt 13:24 we are told a good man sows good seed in his field. Verses 37-38 tells us that the good man is Jesus, the field is the world (no mention of the New Earth), and the good seeds are the children of the Kingdom.
Mt 13:25-30 says that some time passes before the enemy came and sowed the tares. The tares grow up alongside the good seed and are not seperated from the good seed until the harvest. Verses 38-43 tells us that the enemy is the devil, the tares are the devil’s children and that the harvest is the end of the world.
Christ’s Millenial Kingdom begins with all good seed. Time goes on, the devil is loosed for a season to deceive those on the earth. The tares rise up in a final rebellion against God and His Christ and are gathered up to be burned in the furnace at the end of this world at the Great White Throne Judgment.
When was Christ’s kingdom ever made up entirely of good seed? I would submit that it is in the beginning of the Millenial Reign.
In order for you to maintain that these tares will not sin, you must also tell me that these people honor the Lord with their hearts.
I don’t think I need to maintain any such thing. In Mt 13:30 the householder(Jesus) tells His servants to let the tares grow alongside the good seed.
And this also you are not allowed to do per Matthew 13:35.
How so?
Your interpretation of Matthew 13 and the Millennial reign of Christ falls apart for at least 2 reasons:
1. These enemies of the Lord are evil. They will bring forth evil treasures.
2. These enemies of the Lord will not honor Him with their hearts.
Does it say they bring those treasures forth immediately? Of course the tares will be revealed for who they are, and Jesus will deal with them appropriately.
Unfortunately, this Millennial reign is nothing more than a charade or righteousness. There will be 1000 years in which the most hypocritical behavior the world has ever seen will be allowed to actually flower as the wicked reproduce. We will have moved from the seed sowing gospel era into the "seed" sowing age of hypocrisy and secret sins as these enemies of the Lord reproduce. This glorious paradise will be nothing more than a global "white washed tomb" spectacle of futility where the modus operandi will be to honor the Lord with the lips, but secretly despise Him with the heart.
I am sure you are right about people secretly despising the Lord in their hearts during the Millenial Reign. However, Jesus rules with a rod of iron so any open sin will be punished immediately.
But, this is really just the tip of the iceberg: If the Lord is not the God of these tares, then they will have as their god all manner of evil things. There will be flesh worship as men secretly lust after women who are not their wives; there will be idol worship of all kinds; there will be the worship of mammon; etc. Your Millennial reign will be a magnitude of order worse than the world today for its hypocritical charade.
There will be no open sin as you suggest. Jesus will not allow it. And thus at the end we will see that even under the most ideal conditions the plight of Man is desperately wicked. God will be glorified as He metes out the final judgment at the Great White Throne.
But, you actually have an even bigger problem than all of this: just exactly how are these people suppose to be saved when I am told that there will not be any preaching of the gospel in this so called white washed paradise?
I don’t know if there will be preaching of the Gospel during the Millenium. We will be priests of God at that time so there must be some sort of activity going on. Also Jesus will be dwelling with men, they will have no excuse not to come to Him in faith.
So I don’t know who told you there would be no Gospel during the Millenial Reign, but it wasn’t me.
ksen to RnMomof7: Careful Mom, being an Amillenialist means you don't believe in a Tribulation anymore.
Ambassador: How so:
· 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Paul goes on to describe this as the mystery of lawlessness.
We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God. (Acts 14:22)
Sorry, I didn’t think Amillenialists believed in the 7-year Tribulation. That is what I was referring to, which I also thought Mom was referring to.
See xzing? It's not like it's personal. ;-)
Not on your life. I was just taking a brief intermission. ;^)
Briefs? Gondor has no....
ooops...sorry wrong thread...
How many times will Christ return?
How will the people be deceived if Satan is bound
How could God screw up so often..can't He get anything right even when he is in their midst?
One more time where will those babies come from again?
1 John 3 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
John was writing to believers in the Church. The Tribulation Saints are not the Church.
John, Peter and James saw Jesus revealed as He was on the Mt. of Transfiguration. Why were they not immediately transformed?
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