JPII: Church's Social Work Is Not Political, Gospel Message Must Accompany Aid

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[MarMema]

BUT even heathans do good work so we have to glorify God in our good works ..does that makes sense?

Agreed and excellent point! Even when we do good works we must always and everywhere give the glory to God. You are so right, and I was missing it.

In some ways, they are not really our works at all then.

[MarMema]

And therefore, the works are actually of and from Christ, not us, so we can't take credit for them in any way.

Which means faith is the only thing we can "work" for and hope will be our salvation. As you said...LOL.

[MarMema]

Now, define faith.

LOL, howdja like that question from me? :-)

[Polycarp]

And therefore, the works are actually of and from Christ, not us, so we can't take credit for them in any way.

And only someone already deeply grounded in a personal relationship with Christ can or would sacrifice their entire life to such charitable acts.

Nothing good that we do, do we do ourselves, but only by Christ working through us.

The heathens never devoted their entire life to caring for the sick and dying. Hospitals never existed as we know them before Christianity the Catholics and Orthodox created them.

Mother Teresa lived her life of service only by and through her love of and faith in Christ.

Anyone who would maintain otherwise is spiritually blind at best, or advancing a sinister or demonic agenda at worst.

[RnMomof7]

I think we have to also "work" toward becoming like Christ once we have faith. Let's see, what is that parable about the seeds and some that fell into rocks? You know, I am sure! :-) Is that not applicable here?

The parable of the seed is VERY appropriate to this thread..but not our conversation:>)

I think that the process of santification is progressive..the more we read the word and , the more God moves in our lives the more HIS grace changes us to be more like Him...It is Christ IN us that brings the change.It is all Gods work...How is that for mystical:>)

[RnMomof7]

I have been with the dying..many times..The question to me is did the work save her or did the work spring from her salvation...God knows

[JesseShurun]

Plus she did what the majority of us are not willing to do. I'm going to go right now, sit on my fat behind and watch Dr. Phil. I can't condemn the woman, she does me.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Articles of " The Council of Trent " - held in 1546, and then reaffirmed at " The Vatican Council II " - held in 1963 - state that, without question, ANYONE who believes that one can be saved without The Roman Catholic Church is AUTOMATICALLY anathema! That is, CONDEMNED TO ETERNAL HELL ! ~ CURSED !

What does this mean Polycarp? Can you give an answer?

BigMack

[RnMomof7]

LOL, howdja like that question from me? :-)

I always love questions that I do not really have to answer:>)

Hbr 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Where does it come from?

Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

What does it do?

Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

It is a fruit of the Spirit...so it is NOTHING you can make yourself do..(have faith) It comes when you read the word and are converted

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

For all that think one can work their way to heaven

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

[RnMomof7]

Anyone who would maintain otherwise is spiritually blind at best, or advancing a sinister or demonic agenda at worst.

No man knows her heart..you may be right ..BUT if her words are true and she saw all ways as equally valid ways to God I fear you are wrong. AND if she did say them not only would she be lost she would be excommunicated..

[sheltonmac]

"Thank you for once again judging a Catholic's soul..."

Where, pray tell, did Mom judge someone's soul? She was merely pointing out that if someone believes one can get to heaven without faith in Christ Jesus alone, then the eternal fate of that person's soul is in doubt.

"If in coming face to face with God we accept Him in our lives, then we are converting. We become a better Hindu, a better Muslim, a better Catholic, a better whatever we are...What approach would I use? For me, naturally, it would be a Catholic one, for you it may be Hindu, for someone else, Buddhist, according to one’s conscience. What God is in your mind you must accept" (Doig, Mother Teresa, Harper & Row, 1976, p. 156).

--Mother Theresa

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6).

--Jesus Christ

Assuming the former is an accurate quote, whose words are more authoritative in this case? Who do we believe? Who is right and who is wrong?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

"If in coming face to face with God we accept Him in our lives, then we are converting. We become a better Hindu, a better Muslim, a better Catholic, a better whatever we are...What approach would I use? For me, naturally, it would be a Catholic one, for you it may be Hindu, for someone else, Buddhist, according to one’s conscience. What God is in your mind you must accept" (Doig, Mother Teresa, Harper & Row, 1976, p. 156).

Assuming the former is an accurate quote

SWIM!!!

:)

BigMack

[Maximilian]

This is really an excellent question, and it's not enlightening to see Catholics floundering around so much trying to answer it.

The simple answer is that the statements you have quoted could be interpreted to be heretical. The anathemas written in such bracing language that you quote from Trent apply to all heretics (Protestants, for example). So is Mother Theresa a heretic?

In order to be a heretic, one has to KNOWINGLY and OBSTINATELY cling to heresy, even though one is aware that it is contrary to Catholic teaching. In fact, the first condition for all mortal sin is that one has to be aware that the action is seriously wrong.

Mother Theresa would NEVER have wished to hold any beliefs that were contrary to the faith. The fact that she would make some erroneous comments in an interview is not evidence of heresy. But if she were warned by her bishop or by the Vatican that such statements were contrary to the faith, and she persisted in teaching them anyway, then she would be a heretic and would fall under the condemnations you cite, no matter how many good works she may have done.

It is an indictment of the post-Vatican II Church that someone as saintly as Mother Theresa, someone who wanted only to believe what the Church believes, could have been mistaken on such a basic point. Those who created so much confusion in the Church such that basic doctrines are no longer clear even to those in the most advantageous positions, are the ones who will find themselves suffering under the anathemas of the Council of Trent.

[Conservative til I die]

"Prayeez Jeebus!"

[Conservative til I die]

I personally do not much care one way or another..

Yeah, we can really tell that by your posts. Suuuure.

[Conservative til I die]

No kidding, that is what they taught when I was little but I was hoping they outgrew that arrogant nonsense by now.

It's funny how hate makes for strange bedfellows. RNMOMOF7 would tell you're going to hell just like us Catholics, in a second.

[Conservative til I die]

"I love all religions. ... If people become better Hindus, better Muslims, better Buddhists by our acts of love, then there is something else growing there." (12/4/89)

I don't see how this equals your "All good Hindus go to Heaven" quote. I can't believe some are so intellectually dishonest that they knowingly put quotes around their own paraphrase and then brazenly represent it as fact. Where do they teach this kind of logical reasoning?

[ventana]

Is water the only method of baptism? Why? V's wife.

[restornu]

Rev. 22
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

(*I wonder who the righteous is, for the filthy rags preach endlessly all are like filthy rags, yet the scriptures say only the righteous will be saved! Humm!)

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work

(*I wonder if reward is the about the degrees of Glory?)

Rev.2
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works

Rev.20
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and bell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

[ventana]

Here are some definitions of anathema that are more to the sense of what those at Trent were saying.

1. A formal ecclesiastical ban
2. A vehement denunciation
4. One that is (to be) greatly reviled, loathed, or shunned.

The modern perspective on the nutshell from Trent to lend context: Stay away from proddies and other heretics. This was after all back during the Reformation and could be viewed as an attempt to pull the wagons into a circle on the part of the Church (they get better reception that way).

That said, I was always taught that no one gets to Eternal Life but through Jesus. I would certainly tend to put a bit of trust in the expressed feelings of a living saint who helped more people to experience Gods grace on a bad day than RN (or any of us) has done thus far in her entire life.

The bottom line as I see it is that Christ gets to decide whose lives reflected the qualities he said would recieve the reward of heaven. While it is shocking to consider that those of other faiths could be "Christ-like" did he not say that he was the hungry, the thirsty, and the naked of the world?