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Question the Practice of Halloween... Or the Christian Practice of Satanism
The Sir Francis Dashwood Journal | 10-31-02 | Sir Francis Dashwood

Posted on 10/22/2002 5:11:40 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood

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To: Siobhan
We give the children who come a little gift bag with some candy but also a New Testament, some holy cards, and pencil that says "Jesus Loves You" and a button that says "Jesus Love Me (and you too!)".

Beautiful!

121 posted on 10/25/2002 4:43:49 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: DouglasKC
Yep. If a Christian for the most part does pretty much the exact same things as a non-Christian does than who is emulating whose behavior?

Does this mean I can't go to any more Super Bowl parties?

122 posted on 10/25/2002 4:50:02 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: fatima
Dear Sir Francis Dashwood,thank you for your stand for life "(I personally see abortion as a summary execution of the innocent.) "

George Will recently wrote a column concerning our current problem with terrorism, in which he describes a book written about the National Socialist horror and how it is congruent to the Palestinian suicide bombings of Israelis. One part of this book describes a German soldier with a one year old child impaled on his bayonet, still crying weakly. This is how I see abortion - - a revived practice of ritual murder.

Likewise, I see Halloween as a revived practice that has such esoteric parts and idolatry attached. All the elements of drama are a ritualization of the pagan idolatries. You can go to this thread: Ethereal Explorations, where I desribe it in detail, with scholarly references you can investigate...

123 posted on 10/25/2002 4:56:44 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood
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To: Siobhan
Thanks for the history of Halloween in #112. Very interesting and amusing.
124 posted on 10/25/2002 5:03:52 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: Antoninus
It's not up to you to "see". I'm perfectly comfortable that my way of "celebrating" Halloween does not violate any of God's commands. We do not practice witchcraft, sorcery, idolotry, or any other anathematized act on Halloween. The holiday has been thoroughly Christianized and is innocuous. Those "Christians" who foolishly insist on re-injecting Satan into it are succeeding beyond the wildest dreams of occultists.

Consider this:

When the LORD your God cuts off from before you the nations which you go to dispossess, and you displace them and dwell in their land, take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise. You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods. Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it. (Deuteronomy 12.29-32)

51 posted on 10/23/02 7:32 PM Pacific by DouglasKC

I thought it very instructive about Christian practice.
125 posted on 10/25/2002 5:08:43 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood
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To: Loyalist
<> Catholic insight? I went to that website. Talk about a Nightmare on Elm Street. What a crackpot site...all the usual suspects, Chris Ferrara, Peter Scott of the ssspx

Loyalist, those folks will turn you into a humorless crank. Please avoid them<>

126 posted on 10/25/2002 5:18:16 AM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: xm177e2; BlessedBeGod; straight on red; .38sw; 1 FELLOW FREEPER; 101viking; 1lawlady; 2Fro; ...
Ping...
127 posted on 10/25/2002 5:37:24 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood
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To: Catholicguy; Sir Francis Dashwood
However, the Bible does claim that Lucifer was the most beautiful of your God's creations.

It has been a LONG time since I asked you to source this in the Bible.

Yes Dashwood, cite your source! LOL!

128 posted on 10/25/2002 6:06:37 AM PDT by FormerLib
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To: DouglasKC
Exaclty! If someone is celebrating the original intent of Halloween, then they are not choosing the way of God. If it's just kids going from door to door for candy and dressing up like their favorite superhero, I don't think it's a problem. Likewise Easter. If one is participating in the original pagan celebration, that's bad ... if they're celebrating the day the Lord rose from they dead, that's good.

I don't agree with that. A day is being celebrated that stands for something that God is against. How an individual celebrates it doesn't matter. The fact that it's being celebrated is enough. Celebrating or observing it in any way only strengthens and promulagates it.

Are you saying that God is against us celebrating the day Jesus rose from the dead on a day that used to be a pagan holiday?

129 posted on 10/25/2002 7:01:39 AM PDT by al_c
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To: Siobhan
Thank you very much for this.

I haven't gone trick or treating in...a long time, but if the weather's nice, my sister and I sit on our parents' front porch, split a bottle of wine, and have a covered dish with the "treats" underneath. One year it was mashed potatoes. Last year we took the lobster jello mold and put red jello in it with blinking eyes. And the kids are so sweet, they fall for it every year. And their parents stand on the sidewalk and laugh. The most memorable costume I ever saw was a bathroom plunger. It was paper marche and the kid made it himself. A friend of my youngest brother, too.

We don't do pumpkins anymore basically for lack of time, but we have a squirrel problem in the neighborhood and the darn creatures like pumpkin. Carve a face and the face is gone the next morning.

Anyway, Halloween is a lot of fun. And Christmas...well, the family ornament collection requires a HUGE tree. Everywhere we go, we bring back ornaments. And my mom started a Fontini (sp?) Creche collection which now takes an hour just to unpack...

We have a thing for holidays.
130 posted on 10/25/2002 7:59:15 AM PDT by Desdemona
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
My family enjoys Halloween and we watch Harry Potter.

Luckily only one person can judge my family, and it isn’t you.

See you in heaven.
131 posted on 10/25/2002 9:06:28 AM PDT by Marine Inspector
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
I don't pratice Halloween,I think it is boring.
What you say here deserves repeating.
"George Will recently wrote a column concerning our current problem with terrorism, in which he describes a book written about the National Socialist horror and how it is congruent to the Palestinian suicide bombings of Israelis. One part of this book describes a German soldier with a one year old child impaled on his bayonet, still crying weakly. This is how I see abortion - - a revived practice of ritual murder."

132 posted on 10/25/2002 9:26:14 AM PDT by fatima
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
Sorry, I'm from a tradition that frowns on isogesis of Scripture. We see the great sweep of Salvation History through all the Scripture but with New Testament spectacles, and we participate in the Holy Spirit's ongoing role leading us into all truth even though we may be feeble as frail. We have the Magisterium of the Church and the Catechism which also provide clear guidance on fruitful methods of interpretation.
133 posted on 10/25/2002 9:51:47 AM PDT by Siobhan
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To: fatima; Sir Francis Dashwood
And I repeat it again, because it was spot on:

"George Will recently wrote a column concerning our current problem with terrorism, in which he describes a book written about the National Socialist horror and how it is congruent to the Palestinian suicide bombings of Israelis. One part of this book describes a German soldier with a one year old child impaled on his bayonet, still crying weakly. This is how I see abortion - - a revived practice of ritual murder."

134 posted on 10/25/2002 10:23:57 AM PDT by Siobhan
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To: Desdemona
We have a thing for holidays.

As do we. My family teases me about transforming the living room into the entire Holy Land at the time of the Lord's birth. We have the 3 Kings and their caravan moving around the house and the room until Epiphany when they make it to the Holy Family. We did that in my home growing up -- although it was three kings and only a forlorn looking camel - but we thought it was wonderful.

135 posted on 10/25/2002 10:28:20 AM PDT by Siobhan
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To: Aristophanes; Bud McDuell; Dajjal; HDMZ; Land of the Irish; Maximilian; narses; SrBahamonde; ...
PING for All Saints and All Souls Days!
136 posted on 10/25/2002 1:39:55 PM PDT by Loyalist
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To: Desdemona; fatima; Sir Francis Dashwood; Siobhan; DouglasKC; Loyalist; Antoninus; Catholicguy; ...
My two cents on Halloween:

First: 1 Thessalonians 5:22, “Abstain from every form of evil.”

Second: In life, the life that God intended His people to live, there is a line that we draw, and that line is called sin. There are things that are very specific in regards to this. Lying is sin. Stealing is sin. Sex with someone other than your spouse, is sin. That’s the division. On the other side of that line is freedom. Those things that are specifically sinful should be cut off and separated from the rest of life, but everything else comes under the heading of freedom. Freedom for us to enjoy and delight in. This would obviously include being able to dress up in a costume one night a year and collect candy from other houses, right? Sure but, before we go further, we need to look at 1 Corinthians 10:23

“All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify.”

Paul, here, is wrapping up a discourse he started in Chapter 8. He starts with verse 1, “Now, concerning things sacrificed to idols…” and has continued on discussing an issue that had been brought up in the Church at Corinth. Most of the meat that was sold in the meat markets in Corinth came from sacrificial animals that had been slaughtered at pagan temple ceremonies. However, part of the problem was that it was the best meat in town. The immediate concern of these Christians was this: If a Christian ate meat offered to an idol, were they somehow participating in the worship of that idol? Did these rituals somehow automatically taint the food? Some of the younger Christians in the church said it was sinful to eat that meat. The meat was tainted by its idolatrous identification. But other Christians in the church said it wasn't a sin to eat it. Well, first, Paul sides with the people who want to eat this food. Chapter 8, Verse 7-8. Paul tells these Christians that he agreed with their theology of freedom, but the problem was that they had become arrogant and selfish. (vs 9-13).

The real evidence of spiritual maturity was not knowledge but love, the willingness to live sacrificially for other people in the body of Christ. Paul asked these more mature believers in Corinth to exercise the freedom they had in Christ in a loving and sensitive way. They ought to be concerned for the brothers and sisters in the body who had a weaker conscience with regard to eating food sacrificed to idols and attending events in the pagan temples. So the call to these Christians was to give up their legitimate rights for the sake of the gospel that was at work in the body and in their community.

Edification is more important than our personal gratification.

As Christians we have freedom in matters of morally neutral things, such as celebrating All Hallows Eve. Contrary to what Janis Joplin sings, freedom is far more than merely “nothing left to lose”. Freedom means enjoying and developing our gifts and skills as the Lord has given them to us. Christ didn’t die to redeem half of our actions. When we received Christ, we were either redeemed in whole, nor nothing was. Christ died that we might have life and life abundantly. John 15:15, “No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is dong; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you”. We need to realize that we have so much more freedom that we ever even think of reaching out for. But, if we are going to reach out for freedom, and I honestly hope that we can try, our behavior must be tempered with concern for others in the body of Christ, as well as those who are outside.

If our freedom is going to be properly expressed through our Christian life, it has got to be concerned with the spiritual benefit of others. It is really for this reason, more than any other, that me and my family choose to opt out of celebrating Halloween.

137 posted on 10/25/2002 2:20:17 PM PDT by ponyespresso
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To: ponyespresso
The immediate concern of these Christians was this: If a Christian ate meat offered to an idol, were they somehow participating in the worship of that idol? Did these rituals somehow automatically taint the food? Some of the younger Christians in the church said it was sinful to eat that meat. The meat was tainted by its idolatrous identification. But other Christians in the church said it wasn't a sin to eat it. Well, first, Paul sides with the people who want to eat this food. Chapter 8, Verse 7-8. Paul tells these Christians that he agreed with their theology of freedom, but the problem was that they had become arrogant and selfish.

I have a question. How does this example justify not participating in what is now a harmless evening of fun? Well, so long as the teenagers don't throw eggs? This example would seem to contradict your position. Isn't Paul telling these overly concerned people that they are being busybodies? At this point, there is no sacrificing or paganism to Halloween. Just a whole lot of creativity.

Excuse me, please. I have to go wash the lobster mold.
138 posted on 10/25/2002 2:48:40 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: Aquinasfan
Yep. If a Christian for the most part does pretty much the exact same things as a non-Christian does than who is emulating whose behavior?
Does this mean I can't go to any more Super Bowl parties?

Yes, but only in the years the Detroit Lions are in the Super Bown....

139 posted on 10/25/2002 5:41:43 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: al_c
I don't agree with that. A day is being celebrated that stands for something that God is against. How an individual celebrates it doesn't matter. The fact that it's being celebrated is enough. Celebrating or observing it in any way only strengthens and promulagates it.
Are you saying that God is against us celebrating the day Jesus rose from the dead on a day that used to be a pagan holiday?

God tells us in the bible which days he considers holy and sanctified. Easter isn't one of them no matter how good your intentions.

140 posted on 10/25/2002 5:44:50 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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