We'll Take "The Quiet Mass"

Catholic Exchange ^ | October 16, 2002 | Jeffrrey Tucker

[Land of the Irish]

Prior to the revision of the 1962 Roman Missal, there were MANY stolid and banal celebrations of the old rite. All that is now forgotten. I used to go Msgr. Nolan's Mass because he could say it in less than 30 mins, including sermon.

Why the rush to get out of Mass? It appears you were not fond of the Tridentine Mass even when it was the normative Mass.

What are you calling stolid and banal? Things like incensing the altar at a solemn High Mass? All that may be forgotten in you Novus Ordo Mass, but that doesn't necessarily make them stolid or banal.

[Catholicguy]

As I bring these considerations to an end, I would like to ask forgiveness -- in my own name and in the name of all of you, venerable and dear brothers in the episcopate. for everything which, for whatever reason, through whatever human weakness, impatience or negligence, and also through the at times partial, one-sided and erroneous application of the directives of the Second Vatican Council, may have caused scandal and disturbance concerning the interpretation of the doctrine and the veneration due to this great sacrament. And I pray the Lord Jesus that in the future we may avoid in our manner of dealing with this sacred mystery anything which could weaken or disorient in any way the sense of reverence and love that exists in our faithful people

[WriteOn]

Thanks!

[WriteOn]

Thanks!

[Catholicguy]

<> I was instructed in the Faith on a basis of fear rather than love. While that approach did help me to avoid, or at least delay, some of the sins my neighbors engaged in at an early age, it had the effect of making my approch to the Faith legalistic. I was taught I had to go to Mass OR ELSE, so, I fulfilled my obligation in the fastest way possible.

My reference to stolid and banal was to how those Masses were celebrated<>

[american colleen]

That was beautiful, but it was not an "apology" for the abuses of the Mass of Paul VI. (unless I missed it - entirely possible)

[Desdemona]

My reference to stolid and banal was to how those Masses were celebrated

Could you describe this?

[Catholicguy]

<> There are bound to be similarities between the Mass and prot worship dervices. They copied us.<>

You must believe in the tooth fairy if you believe they copied us.

<> Who DO you think the protestants copied in formulating their worship services, the Islamacists? <>

<>So, when the going gets tough the tough get schismatic<>

Who has formally left the Church?<> You <> It's the apostate bishops who cover up for child rapists while at the same time they try their best to destroy every single tradition of the Church. Many of these men left the Church long ago and you and your ilk follow them like a bunch of rats following the pied piper simply because they live in their fancy palaces and claim to be Catholic.

<> Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm,, the smell of freshly baked Donatism<>

[RobbyS]

I was a fan of Jacques Maritain, who was a liberal icon, but he seems to have been taken aback also, saying he expected nothing except that the mass--as it existed--would be translated into the vernacular. To be sure I did not like attending masses in certain churches, where Mexican ladies said their beads, and did other private devotions, while mass was being said. Even so, the changes were done in such an arbitrary manner that I became convinced that no "liberal" in authority is ever LIBERAL.

[Catholicguy]

His Holiness Pope John Paul II Dominicae Cenae On the Mystery and Worship of the Eucharist Promulgated on February 24, 1980

<>The apology occured with this text<>

[RobbyS]

Go to the nearest Methodist Church if you don't think that many Protestants kept Catholic forms. Heck, some even have altar rails. The irony is that this proves how radical some modernists are.

[Desdemona]

I was stunned when the statues disappeared.

Ummm...statues of who? I'm just curious. The church where I grew up, had small side alcoves for Mary, St. Joseph, and St. Therese Lesieux(I know that's not spelled right). Mary and James are under the Crucifix. In the orginal renovation plans they were all to be removed. I threw a fit, privately. We need more statues, not less.

I'm curius because I'm now attending a church which has twice that number and the church itself is half the size. It's also 30 years older (1911 vs. 1942).

[ultima ratio]

No, the difficulty is that he was speaking so foolishly. He ditched a Mass that had evolved over 1500years for a "Memorial Meal" that was fabricated to appeal to Protestant sensibilities. The end result was the worst of both worlds: he alienated millions and millions of Catholics and he got no noticeable conversions. He all but admitted he was contravening Trent. Your problem is you think popes are gods who create Catholic tradition, rather than the guardians of that tradition. You argue as if they are always infallible, even when they institute novelties which turn out to be disasters for the rest of us. Try being a little more objective. Popes are often wrong--as Paul VI clearly was, and as John Paul II often is--when he kisses the Koran or declines to discipline corrupt or apostate bishops.

[Desdemona]

The Protesatants invented their worship services out of thin air.

I'm going to regret this....

CG is right. When was the last time you've been to a protestant service? There's much more Catholic form to mainline services than not. The order is wrong and the language degenerated, but it looks more like Mass than you can possibly imagine. They take the readings from the same order of the Lectionary and just skip the ones from the books Luther took out. They use exactly the same prayers we do, and even attribute them to the saints, omitting the word saint. They have no clue who Francis of Assisi or Thomas Aquinas were, but they use their words and prayers.

It's pretty much wholesale ripped off.

[ultima ratio]

Meanwhile millions of Catholics are being slowly turned into Protestants. At the last Gallup poll of Catholics, published in US News and World Report in 1992, two-thirds of all Catholics no longer believe in the Real Presence. The findings were also later published in Catholic World Report. Rome doesn't seem at all troubled by this, however. Yet without the Real Presence we can have no real sacrifice and consequently no real priesthood. Without a real Sacrifice and a real priesthood there can be no real Catholicism.

[Desdemona]

OK, so in 1960 were the majority of Protestants having their services in Latin, with the preacher facing away from the people? Were they still singing the Gregorain chant? Were the people coming to receive "communion" at an altar rail?

Some Episcopalian churches stil use an altar rail.

These aren't the details I was talking about and you know it.