Saint's Dried Blood Liquefies in 'Miracle'

Heh, heh, I was suspicious that was what was going on.

>>his Church will only teach truth. <<

His church is made up of flawed human beings, negating your statement. A few centuries ago, wasn't some famous guy excomunicated from this "Church that only teaches truth" for espousing the ridiculous idea that the earth may not be the physical center of the universe?

His Word will endure. Many flawed interpretations will not.

I must go back to Psalm 118: 8 and 9.

>>If you don’t agree with any Church organization 100% It would seem you consider the promise of Christ to his Church to be worthless and Timothy referring to the Church as the pillar/foundation of truth to be a lie. <<

One could infer that from what I said, but it's not what I meant.

>>No, I am ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE I am right. It’s called faith in Christ and his word.<<

I won't reach that level about every little belief I have about God and His plan for man until after I die. And, no offense, I think it is presumptuous for any man to say such a thing. I don't know of any author I've read on theology that ever took that strong of a position on much of anything he espoused.

Pegleg, we are all flawed and now we "see as through a glass dimly." We simply CANNOT know FOR SURE. That is what the faith thing is all about.

His church is made up of flawed human beings, negating your statement.

Yes there are flawed human beings in the Church. However, the promise of Christ to protect the Church still stands. So in matters of faith and morals the Holy Spirit protects the church from teaching error.

A few centuries ago, wasn't some famous guy excomunicated from this "Church that only teaches truth" for espousing the ridiculous idea that the earth may not be the physical center of the universe?

The promise to protect the Church pertains to matters of faith and morals, not science.

His Word will endure. Many flawed interpretations will not.

I agree. Hence the deterioration and splintering of Protestantism.

One could infer that from what I said, but it's not what I meant.

Your words say otherwise, you just can't bring yourself to admit it.

And, no offense, I think it is presumptuous for any man to say such a thing.

No offense taken. If you are not 100% sure of your beliefs you've got some more work to do.

I don't know of any author I've read on theology that ever took that strong of a position on much of anything he espoused.

You should read the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Pegleg, we are all flawed and now we "see as through a glass dimly." We simply CANNOT know FOR SURE. That is what the faith thing is all about.

Of course we are flawed however, you CAN know for sure that the Church you are in is the one founded by Christ and therefore cannot teach error in matters of faith and morals. Keep searching, you'll find it.

Just to say sir, I'm not in any way insinuating that you are deliberately attempting to worship the devil. I understand that you seek peace and rest for your eternal soul. And I greatly rejoice in the Lord that you understand that you do have an eternal soul, and that you are a sinner who has not power in himself to save your soul, but only God can accomplish this work.

I greatly support that creed, and glory be to God for it. God alone is the Holy One, and God alone can please God. No man can please God except through the Son of God, who became a man, born of a blessed, virgin woman(not deity, for Mary was a sinner like all men except Jesus), and died as the perfect sacrifice for our sins, and rose again, defeating death.

If you would only stop at this creed, my friend, you would be a man of great blessing.

And though I do not attack you for a satanic stance on Jesus Christ, I do oppose the Catholic Church.

The "Vicar of Christ" or representative of Christ is not the Pope. When Jesus cried, "It is finished.", the veil of the Holy of Hollies was rent from the top down which meant that now any man who repents believes on Christ has the power of the Old Testament priests of Israel to pray directly to God. To those who believe, our intercessor is Christ Jesus, the High Priest; and our vicar of Christ or holy witness is not the Pope, but the Holy Spirit that dwells within our hearts and keeps our souls till the day of redemption in eternal Glory.

You cannot work your way to Heaven, my friend. Only through the blood of Jesus Christ can the vilest of sinners be made clean, and the only authority is God's Word, not any man or church body.

This is what the reformist Martin Luther realized when he began to read the Bible. The Catholic Church even back in Luther's day did not want people to read the Bible, because when people did, people would leave the C.C. in great numbers and would even be burned and tortured to death before they denied their Lord and the authority of His Word. Why? Because God's Word has the power to save lives from sin. The C.C. does not possess that power.

Do not be deceived, friend. There is no condemnation to those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation (Saints), not Mary, not the Pope, and not any church.

Vain repetition?

John 3:18 "He that believes on Him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

The Church is not greater than God's Word. The Church is but the bride of Christ.

If Jesus Christ is your atonement then why do you pray to another God, Mary?

If Jesus Christ is your atonement then why do you need absolution for you sins, and why do you need to keep sacraments to go to heaven or stay out of purgatory?

If Jesus really is the Christ and the Son of God than His sacrifice is enough for all your sins. Nothing that you can do can save you, for you are a man and no man can please God except he be God. That man was Jesus Christ.

The Catholic Church is a tool of the devil and is misleading many a poor soul away from Christ. And even Satan can do supernatural works or "miracles."

2 Corinthinas 11:13-14 "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."

I used to think they were the instructions on how to get to heaven. They aren't. They are merely instructions on how to live a happier life as in, do this stuff and you will be happier. Oh, and as Jesus made quite clear, as part of the law, they are also part of what gave sin it's power.

All of God's commands, which is the Law, must be obeyed in order for God to be pleased; otherwise, the penalty is death. God is life and sin is not of God and is therefore death. So the 10 Commandments must in fact be obeyed. They are not the 10 suggestions for better living.

I said above that all of God's commandments must be obeyed or it is sin and this means eternal death. Adam blew it when he sinned in Eden, so now all man must die physically. All man is born to die into eternal Hell, and no man can keep all of God's commandments while on this earth, so he must die eternally too. Of course Jesus Christ is our atonement to those who trust in Him for eternal salvation. The follower of Christ will live in glory forever, but he is not working for the things of the world but for the things of Heaven. So to obey the 10 Commandments will not bring you eternal life(only Christ can), but they will bring you treasures in Heaven and in this life.

May the Peace of God and His Holy Spirit be with you.

amazing no one would have a Bible if it not for the Catholic Church that gave it to them...

Not! God wrote the Bible, not the C.C.

I think it would be more appropriate to make that charge against a theology that posits the devil to be "the second most powerful being in the universe".

Well, he is. God allows him to be for now.

The Bible is the word of God...written under Divine inspiration but transcribed, put together by the Catholic Church.

The evangelical approach seems to be that people became Christian first and then form volunteer associations to strengthen one another's faith. That is not the way that the Reformers saw the matter in the 16th Century: they thought they were reforming an existing institution that had become corrupt in doctrine and practice and needed to be restored to its primiitive condition by reference to Scripture. But of course even then there were those who believed that they had experienced "Easter" and had come to know Jesus as surely as and in much the same manner as had St. Paul. It was this as much as the differing interpretations of the Bible that doomed the Reformation and caused the multiplication of sects which both Catholics and Protestants felt the need to suppress.

John 3:18 "He that believes on Him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

The bible is all inspired...not certain verses that meet your need.

The Church is but the bride of Christ.

Then why would Christ have more than ONE bride?

If Jesus Christ is your atonement then why do you pray to another God, Mary?

Mary is not God and nor does the church or any Catholic believes she is..

If Jesus Christ is your atonement then why do you need absolution for you sins, and why do you need to keep sacraments to go to heaven or stay out of purgatory?

Where does it say in the Bible past, present and future sins are automatically forgiven once one becomes a christian?

The Catholic Church is a tool of the devil and is misleading many a poor soul away from Christ. And even Satan can do supernatural works or "miracles."

Christ established ONE Church with one set of beliefs...Eph 4:4-5. The one that is the TRUE church has an unbroken link to the new testament, the Catholic Church shows that. They can trace bishop by bishop back to the Apostles..

Just to say sir, I'm not in any way insinuating that you are deliberately attempting to worship the devil.

This statement is offensive. You sound like another one of those holier than thou types who passes judgment on anyone who doesn't hold your views.

No man can please God except through the Son of God, who became a man, born of a blessed, virgin woman(not deity, for Mary was a sinner like all men except Jesus), and died as the perfect sacrifice for our sins, and rose again, defeating death.

Another Catholic misconception. We do not hold Mary as a deity.

And though I do not attack you for a satanic stance on Jesus Christ, I do oppose the Catholic Church.

Like many others on FR, you oppose what you think is Catholicism. You don't know what we believe because you've never taken the time to understand our doctrines.

The "Vicar of Christ" or representative of Christ is not the Pope.

You need to understand the significance of the "keys" and then it might make sense to you.

. You cannot work your way to Heaven, my friend.

Yet another Catholic misconception. Show me where I said that or where the Church teaches this.

Only through the blood of Jesus Christ can the vilest of sinners be made clean, and the only authority is God's Word, not any man or church body.

The New Testament is quite clear when it proclaims the Church is the pillar/foundation of truth.

This is what the reformist Martin Luther realized when he began to read the Bible.

Martin Luther was a heretic.

The Catholic Church even back in Luther's day did not want people to read the Bible, because when people did, people would leave the C.C. in great numbers and would even be burned and tortured to death before they denied their Lord and the authority of His Word.

Another myth. Sources please.

Why? Because God's Word has the power to save lives from sin. The C.C. does not possess that power.

Yet another Catholic misconception. Show me where I said that or where the Church teaches it has the power to save lives.

Do not be deceived, friend. There is no condemnation to those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation (Saints), not Mary, not the Pope, and not any church.

I suggest you stop disagreeing with what you think is Catholicism. Your uninformed opinions and so called facts are erroneous.

Vain repetition?

You've got be kidding. Read the words again and you will see that the Catholic Church worships God and God alone, "we worship you, we give you thanks, we praise you for your glory".

As I understand, some Catholics do believe that Mary had to be divine in order to conceive Jesus the Divine. I'm not so sure now that it's the larger veiw in the C.C., but I'm glad that you do not hold to that false view.

The Catholics do, however, pray to Mary which is in effect placing her in the same position of Jesus Christ. Jesus is the only intercessor between God and man for He is the Christ, the Messiah, the only man who ever lived a life totaly pleasing to God the Father, because Jesus was God as well as man.

I would like to know what you believe irregardless of the Catholic Church, for your personal relationship with Christ is more important than the doctrines and practices of any Church. It is you who will have to stand before God on Judgement Day for your sins, not the Church.

I understand the Pope to be considered Christ's replacement on earth as the head of the Church. Peter is suppose to be the first Pope. But Peter was never given this title and Peter in no way claimed many positions the Pope does. The New Testament saints did not pray to Peter but to God directly, because once again Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. It is the Holy Spirit who guides the actions of the saints, not any Church. A Church can only put up guidelines but those guidelines must be within the confines of God's Word, otherwise they are preaching another gosple and are therefore false teachers.

The Church is but the bride of Christ and will be presented as such by God the Father to Jesus Christ at the wedding feast in Heaven as described in Revelation. God's Word is the written way to Christ and there is no other.

Jesus said that He is the "way, the truth, and the life;" no man comes to the Father "but by Me." This is because Jesus is the only one to ever please the Father wholly. And Jesus also said that any man who does not come to the Father through Him is a "thief and a robber."

The Catholic Church does teach a works-based salvation. Things such as infant baptism and communion are works and are nothing spiritual in and of themselves. They are but acts of men. God's Word teaches that all man's works are as filthy rags before all-righteous God, and that no man is righteous, no not even one, except for Jesus.

The real power is spiritual not physical. Nothing man does can save him. Only faith in Jesus Christ can "save" a man and that is because Jesus saves. When Jesus gave up His spirit and died He cried "It is finished.". Jesus paid it all on the cross. Nothing is left for a man to do except accept that gift Jesus gave.

Faith without works is dead, but works without Faith are worthless. These works are accomplished by the inward working of the Holy Spirit and the works are but a testimony given by the worker that they believe in Christ. So in and of itself baptism can neither save a person nor keep him out of purgatory or any other kind of judgement. That is why Jesus told the sinner on the cross that he would be in paradise when he died the same day as Jesus, because the dying man trusted in Jesus. The dying man on the cross beside Jesus was neither ever baptised nor did he do any of the sacraments.

God's Word is the only authority. God's Word is the final authority. The true Catholic Church is but the universal body of saints who follow God's Word based on what Jesus taught.

Romans 10:17
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

We learn of God from His Word and we understand what it is to have faith in Jesus through His Word alone.

As to Martin Luther and such. The Catholic Church in his day made translating the Bible into another language other than Latin a crime punishable by execution via burning at the stake. Most people did not know how to read Latin. When translations did spring up the Reformation started to come about and many of those Reformers were persecuted by the Catholic Church. Ever heard of William Tyndale? Martin Luther translated the Bible into German.

I'm being thoroughly admonished on my statement of Mary. I've heard that there are Catholics who believe that Mary was divine. I doubt that any would say such, but in effect, Mary is put on the same level as Christ. To say Mary was sinless is to say that she was a Son of God just like Jesus. Once Adam sinned all were born with a sin nature. Mary's mother was not sinless was she? Neither could Mary be if she was not conceived of the Holy Spirit. And nowhere does God ever speak of her assumption.

Besides God's Word clearly teaches that there is one human ever to perfectly please God and that was Jesus the Divine.

Luke 1:46 And Mary said: "My soul exalts the Lord, Luke 1:47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior

Mary is calling God her Savior. Her Saviour from what? Her sin.

Where does it say in the Bible past, present and future sins are automatically forgiven once one becomes a christian?

I John 2:12 "I am writting you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for His names sake.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

John 3:16 For God loved the world so much He gave His only Son to die. Whoever believes in that Son will not die but have everlasting life.

So if believing in Jesus results in eternal life, how has Jesus changed us to make us worthy of eternal life? We still are humans capable of sin, but we are forgiven of all our sins. Heb 9:12 says that Jesus died once for all.
He had to die because without the shedding of His blood no man could be forgiven his sin before God the Father. One sacrifice for all mankind's sin.

Jesus told the woman at the well that she will never thrist again if she drank of the water that He gives. By definition you are forgiven of all your sins once you accept Christ! What a cause for rejoicing!!

Jesus paid it all on the cross. Our sins are as far as the east is from the west. God no longer sees us as sinners but as His children.

Jesus died for every sin that was ever committed or ever will be committed.

If you are not washed by the blood of the crucified One, the perfect sinless Lamb of God, the Messiah, the Saviour, then you are not accepted as righteous before God the Father and you will live in Hell when you die (Heb. 9:22).

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Once you have the baptism of repentance(Luke 3:3)you are given the gift of the Holy Spirit which will never leave you, even when you sin. You are "sealed" or your soul is kept. Your name will be written down in the book of life. You cannot lose your salvation. Of course, you do not want to sin when you are living in the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

When you believe in Jesus you are given a new life in Christ, old things are past away and all things are become new. You are a new man or woman when you put your trust in Jesus alone for salvation.You win a prize, btw, if you have made it all the way to the end of this long post (jk). :)

The Catholic Church in his day made translating the Bible into another language other than Latin a crime punishable by execution via burning at the stake.

It sounds like somebody has really led you astray about the Catholic Church, based on your last post. That post is full of fallacies, including the one above.

Instead of relying on rumors and the spreading of fallacies, why don't you learn for yourself the truth about the Catholic Church. There are plenty of resources readily accessable to help you, if you're interested.

I agree that many translators were Catholic (Jerome's Latin vulgate for one), but many were not.

Go aheah and send the "resources" this way, but none can disprove the truth of History. William Tyndale is an example of what I was speaking of.

Funny thing, one of my Bible teachers in High School was named Rambler.