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John Paul II — The Face of Love
e3mil.com ^ | 8/6/02 | James Bemis

Posted on 08/06/2002 5:10:58 PM PDT by nickcarraway

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To: JMJ333
My fight is not to convince people like you--it is to use reasoned argumnts to convince anyone who reads these threads. I do not expect to have my ideas treated fairly or even with courtesy by anybody on this thread. I will therefore argue on--whether you like it or not because what is happening is that the Catholic faith is being subverted gradually in almost every diocese and parish in the world. I notice you don't contend with me much on this. I am willing to hear your own excuses for what is going on. Defend the indefensible--if you can--the apostate bishops and the Pope who has tolerated them these many years.
481 posted on 08/10/2002 7:50:30 AM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: sitetest
I have seen Ferrara's work in The Remnant and Woods, a convert, thinks he knows more about Catholicism than does the Pope. But, they are fawned over by the schismatic right. There work will be treated like the Bible. All hope of a reunion ended long ago. This just drives another nail into their schismatic coffin
482 posted on 08/10/2002 2:58:57 PM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: sitetest
I have seen Ferrara's work in The Remnant and Woods, a convert, thinks he knows more about Catholicism than does the Pope. But, they are fawned over by the schismatic right. There work will be treated like the Bible. All hope of a reunion ended long ago. This just drives another nail into their schismatic coffin
483 posted on 08/10/2002 3:00:09 PM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: american colleen
facts schmacts :)
484 posted on 08/10/2002 3:01:07 PM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: Land of the Irish
If you think the Pope a mason, don't you have the Christian duty to warn others? Just state what you believe, if you have the courage of your convictions
485 posted on 08/10/2002 3:03:24 PM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: Catholicguy
Dear Catholicguy,

Well, based on their erroneous remarks about Fr. Abbott, as provided to us by ultima ratio, it's hard for me to get excited about their level of scholarship.

I'm glad to hear that they weren't so dishonest as to manufacture a quote. But their interpretation of Fr. Abbott's footnote was so wide of the mark that it is small consolation.

sitetest

486 posted on 08/10/2002 3:06:37 PM PDT by sitetest
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To: sitetest
quote. But their interpretation of Fr. Abbott's footnote was so wide of the mark that it is small consolation.

They are NUTZ. Both of them. They are unreliable. I ahve read their distortions for years. What is worse though, is that they are saints compared to Atila Guimares (SP?). This guy is the Mother of all nuts...man oh man.He and his sidekick Marian Horvath make Vlad the Impaler seem like Donahue

487 posted on 08/10/2002 4:18:03 PM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: ultima ratio
I don't care how lovable or admirable or wise he is, or how unwise or untraveled or blinded by celebrity you yourself are, if the Pope violates Catholic tradition to such an extent, alarm bells should be going off in your brain. The pope is not the faith!

You're a kook. You have heard so many alarm bells that your reasoning abilities have been severely damaged. Ultima ratio? No.Ultima retro,yes. Since you don't know what goes on in the Catholic Church except for what your extremist, biggoted sources tell you, you will have to take my word for it that the Koran is not being used in Sunday masses. What harm do you think the pope's goodwill gesture has done to the faithful? Only the the self appointed elite think that the average Catholic can't discern what is legitimate or not. What arrogance you have!

You ascribe infallibilty to this Pope's every statement and gesture, no matter how out of line with past magisteria they are.

Because I'm not in a state of perpetual panic and paranoia, you accuse me of pope worship. All I've said is that I am not qualified to make judgements about his motives and actions. Perhaps if I were a seminary drop out I would be qualified. But I'm not. Who the pope prays beside, what gestures he makes are pretty darn inconsequential to me and my faith. If you are so impressed by the minutiae of the pope maybe it is you who has the worship problem. But I know better. It is your abiding animus that allows you to freak out over such trivia.

Finally, your veiled reference to books on the subject of the supposed anti-semitism regarding of another pope is clearly a reference to the slanders charged against Pius XII, outrageous tissues of lies totally without merit. It shows you to be unknowledgeable regarding scholarship every Catholic should become acquainted with about one of the greatest popes in history, a man hailed as a hero after the war by the Jews themselves. These books by Catholic-bashers which have sprung up ever since his death are deliberate hit-jobs, designed first by the KGB, then by ex-Catholics or Jewish axe-grinders, to sully Pius' pristine reputation and were not based on anything factual. The irony is that no single individual during WWII did more to speak out against the dangers of Nazism or to rescue the Jews themselves than Pius XII.

My point was that John Paul II's reign has been so benevolent and open and he is so well respected by the entire world that criticism of him will be near impposible (I'm excluding your crowd of course). I did't mean to give creedence to the charges that have been leveled against Pius XII. JPII has put a good face on his church, despite the scandals of his inferiors. It's incredible ( not to me )how defensive you become when it is a pre-conciliar pope that is misunderstood. Keep typing. All your inconsistencies, hypocrisies, biases,and inaccuracies (purposeful?) will soon be known to all.

488 posted on 08/11/2002 11:39:09 AM PDT by St.Chuck
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To: ultima ratio
You think what's going on is fine--but past popes have warned about Modernism--and this Pope has embraced it.

That is your interpretation. Your interpretation has no merit.

Why do you care? Doesn't the SSPX satisfy your religious aspirations? Don't you get the mass the way you want it? What difference does it make to you what the pope does or doesn't do?

489 posted on 08/11/2002 11:46:57 AM PDT by St.Chuck
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To: St.Chuck
"You're a kook...You're in a perpetual state of panic and paranoia."

LOL

Are you always so friendly in discussions? And I'M the guy who's bitter and has the problem? You blast off the vitriol the minute somebody dares to present a cogent argument against the wreckage that is now calling itself the Catholic Church. In any case, your personal venom still doesn't change the facts any nor disguise the obvious. Which is that this Pope has failed and his many novelties and apologies and outright doctrinal unorthodoxies have hurt his Church.
490 posted on 08/11/2002 12:20:37 PM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: St.Chuck
"What difference is it to you what the Pope does or doesn't do?"

The arrogance is yours. He is not just your pope, he is mine also. There can be no reform unless the guy at the top decides to clean house. He has appointed these so-called "spiritual shepherds." He must discipline them. If he won't, then laymen and women should make a noise until he does. It's the ONLY power we have--what else are we supposed to do while the gay subculture flourishes and doctrinal dissent spreads? Do you think liberal activists in seminaries and colleges keep quiet? The time for silence is over! If it makes you uncomfortable, get over it.
491 posted on 08/11/2002 12:36:02 PM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: ultima ratio
Are you always so friendly in discussions?

No, I'm not, and I don't think you have discussions; just a relentless attack on the catholic church. A discussion would entail listening to others, but the "alarms" have hampered your hearing.

As for the Pope's actions please reread todays epistle.

492 posted on 08/11/2002 1:00:28 PM PDT by St.Chuck
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To: ultima ratio
He is not just your pope, he is mine also.

Stop it. You are embarrassing yourself.

493 posted on 08/11/2002 1:05:03 PM PDT by St.Chuck
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To: St.Chuck
You are apparently incapable of civil discourse. Bye-bye.
494 posted on 08/11/2002 1:54:22 PM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: Catholicguy
Woods, a convert, thinks he knows more about Catholicism than does the Pope.

Whatever errors Thomas Woods has made, there is no justification for blaming them on his being a Protestant convert.

495 posted on 08/12/2002 10:39:52 AM PDT by Loyalist
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To: Loyalist
Woods, a convert, thinks he knows more about Catholicism than does the Pope.

Whatever errors Thomas Woods has made, there is no justification for blaming them on his being a Protestant convert. The point made was that a convert thinks he knows more about Catholicsm than the Pope does.

496 posted on 08/12/2002 12:52:23 PM PDT by Catholicguy
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