Archbishop Williams Insists He's No Pagan - Canterbury Top Pick To Be Honorary Druid

Religion News Service ^ | July 20, 2002

[RochesterFan]

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a duck...

[Revelation 911]

Look, you asked me not to ping you - I dont, and then you ping me - please remove me from any of your ping lists

[George W. Bush]

(BTW I also am very upset about the Pope kissing the Koran.)

I understand entirely. Billy Graham's remarks on Muslim religion and salvation outside of Christ get some of us quite upset, his decades of approving of Communist regimes, etc. But he doesn't have anything remotely resembling infallible teaching authority. On the other hand, your pope has never given aid and comfort to Communist regimes like Graham has.

I didn't specifically intend to make members of the church of Rome look like fools over this matter with your pope. But I feel very strongly about the ancient and modern martyrs and the testimony of Christ that they make when they give their lives rather than accomodate a false god.

These ecumenists (of all stripes) are entirely outside the Christian tradition in my opinion. None of them is worthy to be called a leader. Look at all the ancient fathers of the church. So few died of natural causes. It's shameful to willingly appease false gods. I would think that they should be afraid to meet their Maker for fear that Christ will deny them as they have denied Him. Christian leaders have greater responsibilities than ordinary believers.

My apologies if I was belittling to the faithful within the Roman church who do remember and revere the example of the ancient martyrs and who have written so often here about the persecution of modern martyrs in the Third World, those whose sacrifice more than any other work of man established the church of Jesus Christ against all the persecutions of the Roman Empire and, in modern time, against the persecutions of cruel Marxist and Muslim states. I know that many of you do not hold with honoring false religions in any way.

[George W. Bush]

For all we know, Rowan Williams may consider joining this group to be no more questionable than joining a local book-reading club. I'm not saying it's right, but it may give us reason to consider what we do in our own lives.

Any Christian leader should be careful to lead a life beyond reproach and a life that testifies solely to the power of Christ to grant salvation and eternal life.

Rowan is minimizing Christ here. Will the great testimony of his entire life actually be this horrible blurb about him joining a strange Druidic cult? Is this the proper final testimony of a mature Christian as he approaches the end of his life?

Do you suppose that the Druids and other British New Agers will fail to make propaganda of his foolishness? That the newspapers and media will somehow fail to gleefully report this widely?

Our ancient enemy and his worldly allies will not miss this opportunity to denigrate and distort the cause of Christ.

Yes, it is serious. So are the problems with Graham and the Roman pope. It's ecumenism-run-amok which is the only natural result of ecumenism. It's the same strange impulse that leads Christian "leaders" to suggest that Buddhists and Moslems may be saved, that Buddha and Allah are just other names for Jehovah and every other flappy idea these heretics spin out to please the itching ears of the world. How pleasing their philosophy of religion! But any reader of the Bible or observer of the early church or the Reformation church can readily discern that they are not within the Christian tradition.

I'm sure you're aware of my extremely strong disagreement with the theology of Rome. But I consider it far more likely that the ordinary Roman church member will enter heaven than those Christian leaders who deny Christ in this way. They are utterly without excuse. And these actions on their part makes everything they have ever said or done come under a cloud of suspicion.

[Ryle]

Thanks for the ping, RnMomof7. There are still pockets of conservative orthodox belief remaining in the Anglican Church, but they're a much beleaguered group.

[nicmarlo]

...we need to ask respected by whom

I know your comment is rhetorical, however, I think many know by whom it is "respected." And it ain't God.

[xzins]

the picture at #13 is instructive to me. it's a bunch of folks who have no idea of meaning in life. they're looking for it in mystical rites and mystical robes.

Too bad.

LOL. On another level it reminds me of the old "Flintstones" cartoon. You know...when Fred and Barney are at the lodge meetings wearing their horned hats and being grand poobahs. Does anyone remember the name of their lodge/order? (Hint: I don't.)

Bwahhahahhahahahah

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The Royal Order of Water Buffalos.

http://www.tvacres.com/fraternal_orgs.htm

[xzins]

LOL. Thanks, DrE. How do you find this stuff?

[mgstarr]

Thought you might be interested in the reply I received today from the Archbishop's office:

This story has caused us endless problems. The order that +Rowan is joining has NOTHING to do with paganism. It is a broadly Christian order of poets, artists and other cultural figures. The Gorsedd is two hundred years old (no more), and is largely made up of Christian ministers of one kind or another, who would have little truc with paganism.

Given what I know of his politics in general, I reserve judgement on their reply.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Google is God's gift to the curious. 8~)

[Catholicguy]

Congratulations, Bush. I was delighted to see this post, about an Anglican, being used by you as an opportunity to issue a gratuitous, non sequitur, diatribe against Rome. The good thing about mentioning ANY Christian denomination or confession is that they all split from Rome so you will have an inexhaustible amount of opportunities to scratch your antiRoman itch - enjoy>

I hope that release of bile relieved some of the pressure on your pyloric valve (apologies to Ignatius Reilly of "Confederacy of Dunces").

[Catholicguy]

The worst this heretic and blasphemer can do is to sow some temporary confusion, to offer a false testimony of Christianity. His eternal punishment will be extremely severe unless he repents. Along the same lines as that which can be expected from the current pope kissing a Koran in meetings with Muslims, a book which denies Christ and insists that the crucifixion was a fraud and that another man died in Christ's place. I believe that there are certain accommodations with the world that are not compatible with salvation. These are examples of how people deny Christ in modern times.

Busy, busy, busy...so many to condemn to Hell, so little time....

[Catholicguy]

I thought I'd point out that many of us here are Calvinist

Yes. This post is about Cavinism. I forgot....Everything is about Cavinism

[Catholicguy]

Litany, The Barque of Peter sails safely between the Scylla of Schism and the Charybdis of Calvinism. Don't go near that whirpool of fanaticism, confusion, and hate. It will suck you down and rob you of compassion and light. Stay aboard the Ark of Salvation. Ubi Petrus, Ibi Ecclesia

Try the link below for a conversation about the Pope kissing the Koran. Jesus was castigated for eating with sinners. The Pharisees may change their denominational clothes, they never change their stripes and there is nothing new under the sun and one can witness their attempt to change the matter of this thread into one of their INTERMINIBLE threads about Calvinism. http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ394.HTM

[Catholicguy]

Yes, it is serious. So are the problems with Graham and the Roman pope. It's ecumenism-run-amok which is the only natural result of ecumenism. It's the same strange impulse that leads Christian "leaders" to suggest that Buddhists and Moslems may be saved, that Buddha and Allah are just other names for Jehovah and every other flappy idea these heretics spin out to please the itching ears of the world. How pleasing their philosophy of religion! But any reader of the Bible or observer of the early church or the Reformation church can readily discern that they are not within the Christian tradition. I'm sure you're aware of my extremely strong disagreement with the theology of Rome. But I consider it far more likely that the ordinary Roman church member will enter heaven than those Christian leaders who deny Christ in this way. They are utterly without excuse. And these actions on their part makes everything they have ever said or done come under a cloud of suspicion

Just curious, does all this damning make you thirsty?

[Catholicguy]

Here is the link to that conversation about the Koran and the Pope


http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ394.HTM

[George W. Bush]

Jesus was castigated for eating with sinners.

But He didn't pay homage to false gods. Neither did His apostles or the early church. Not even once. They died instead, leaving their testimony in blood to their conviction of Christ as Saviour and King.

The Pharisees may change their denominational clothes, they never change their stripes and there is nothing new under the sun and one can witness their attempt to change the matter of this thread into one of their INTERMINIBLE threads about Calvinism.

No, I offered one of the comforts of Calvinist doctrine (Jansenist doctrine to you Roman types), that we should know that not one lamb of Christ's flock can truly be lost, that God shall always triumph, that no false Christian leader (Graham, this so-called archbishop, your so-called pope) can truly lead anyone to damnation with false doctrine. As I said before, it is not within the power of any man to save or damn another. That is God's sole province.

http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ394.HTM

Thanks for the laughfest. Would you care to also explain the pope's appearance several years back when he prayed publicly with the Dalai Lama and a native American shaman (I think some other worshippers of false gods were there too). For that matter, explain to me why a Muslim was onstage with GWB and Billy Graham at the National Cathedral?

These are false religions. No Christian should have any part of them. We are forbidden to even bid godspeed to unsound Christians, let alone pray with the enemies of Christ. The ancient church and the apostles knew this and practiced it. Until they killed them for it.

Exodus 20:3 KJV: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Quaint as it may seem to you, those words meant something to the apostles and to the ancient church. They still mean something to hundreds of thousands of living martyrs suffering persecution today for Christ's sake, many of them from your own church. They mean something to a lot of us Protestants and to a lot within the Roman church too. But you think it's fine for everyone to pretend that Allah is Jehovah, Buddha is Jehovah, etc. Graham and your pope hug up to them while these Muslims wantonly rape, rob, and murder Christian martyrs openly by the thousands, in Africa, in the Sudan and Saudi Arabia and throughout the Middle East, in the Phillipines. And you think it's fine for Christian leaders to pay homage to their writings (Koran) which teaches Christ's crucifixion was a complete fraud.

You can keep your pope. I certainly disavow Graham.

[George W. Bush]

I was delighted to see this post, about an Anglican, being used by you as an opportunity to issue a gratuitous, non sequitur, diatribe against Rome.

Then you missed some recent threads, particularly a few about Billy Graham where he was castigated across the board for being unsound and preaching strange and unorthodox doctrine. And we got a lot of bashing over the Graham thread too from non-Romans.

It goes across the board. We denounced Schuller, the Christian psychologizers, and the rest of the pack of "Christian celebrities". We've done this consistently for a long time. I suppose you're upset that we don't just ignore what your pope has done. Sorry, blasphemers don't get any free rides, whatever body of believers they claim to lead.

Someday, we should have a thread about whether this pope actually is, as is so often averred, the very soul of conservative Roman orthodoxy or a wild-eyed radical outside Roman tradition. I think that comparing his teaching and practices to those of all previous Roman popes would draw a picture of what this pope really stands for. And the same applies to Graham and a whole pile of other "celebrity Christians" outside the church of Rome.

[Catholicguy]

You can keep your pope.

Thanks for your generous permission. You like to quote the New Testament. In the 16th Chaper of Matthew, Jesus establishes His Church upon Peter and promises him that what he binds on earth will be bound in Heaven and what he(Simon/Peter/Cephas/Kepha)loooses on earth will be loosed in Heaven.

I forget where it is in the New Testament that Jesus builds another Church upon Calvin and promises John Calvin that whatever he binds on earth..etc.

Can you refresh my memory and show me in the New Testament where Jesus does that.

Failing that, can you at least damn me to Hell? (I'm feeling left out).