Taking Hell Out of Church

The Grand Rapids Press ^ | 7/20/02 | Charles Honey

[Wrigley]

There would be consequences, to be sure, but also a chance for McVeigh to reconcile with God, he told his United Methodist congregation.

Reading just this from the United Methodist minister, Rev. Chris Lane, made sent chills down my spine.

[Wrigley]

Bump for your thoughts.

[Wrigley]

"Why would a God of unlimited grace close the door on us ever having access to that again?" asked Lane, co-pastor of Genesis United Methodist Church in Ada Township.

We've had some discussion with our Mormon friends about second chances after death. This sounds so similiar.

[sspxsteph]

"We believe the Bible is true and we're going to tell the truth. If the truth is sometimes uncomfortable, I'm sorry."

I am sure that it would be very uncomfortable to talk about hell in a sermon. I know that it is even uncomfortable to hear sometimes, but it sure does make me think twice about what I am doing. God does want us all to go to heaven, but we determine where we go when we offend him. I just know that when a pastor is somewhat responsible for his parishioner's souls, grit the teeth and tell them what will happen if they sin and not try to change their ways.

[the_doc]

A tree is known by its fruits.

[RnMomof7]

"Why would a God of unlimited grace close the door on us ever having access to that again?" asked Lane, co-pastor of Genesis United Methodist Church in Ada Township.

We've had some discussion with our Mormon friends about second chances after death. This sounds so similar.

This is not surprise. When is the last time and Arminian that posts here heard a sermon with a reference to hell?

The altar call is designed to solve today’s problems..Are you unhappy, lonely, poor? Get Christ.

People are shocked and insulted when I speak frankly and tell people " I care about you I do not want to see you burn in hell for eternity"

It is seen as an unkind statement....but long before I ever thought that thought Jesus said the words. Telling someone that is an act of love!

The Methodist church is a waste land, that pastor most likely has a church full of tares that are all going to burn in hell. If he challenged them with the gospel they might become Hindi or Buddhist .He would lose his job

The problem for that pastor is God hates false shepherds....

This makes me think of the " better place doctrine" It comes into play when ANYONE dies.....all the comforters say to the widow of a reprobate drunkard serial adulterer "he is in a better place"

To that I say " like Hell"

[Wrigley]

BUMP

[drstevej]

***"I try to stay positive on this. If you don't, maybe you'll get one out of five (committing to Christ), but the other four will say, 'Stick it in your ear.'"***

Jesus and Paul frequently heard the 1st century equivalent of "stick it in your ear!"

This dude sounds more like Peale than Paul. I find Paul appealing and Peale appalling.

[Wrigley]

And along those lines come this great insight.

While some evangelical scholars adopted a less literal view of hell, many church leaders who push for growth would rather not deal with it, Hesselink said.

"They want to appeal to people. They're not going to talk about sin and anything that's terribly negative -- above all, hell."

And

"It's just too negative," said Bruce Shelley, a senior professor of church history at Denver Theological Seminary. "Churches are under enormous pressure to be consumer-oriented. Churches today feel the need to be appealing rather than demanding."

[lockeliberty]

Sounds as if those who espouse PMA are having a bad case of PMS about hell.

[drstevej]

Imagine a physician saying.

"I practice positive medicine. I don't talk about malignacies and cancer. When people come to me they want to hear good news, not judgmentalism. If they are one cheese fry from a heart attack, I tell them their lungs sound good. If they have a life threatening brain tumor, I tell them that if it were a fetus in the womb I would get rid of it, but their brain tumor is just one glitch in an otherwise healthy body and not a cause to worry."

Think I'd need a good malpractice policy?? These PMA pastors are guilty of spiritual malpractice.

[COBOL2Java]

The violence and torture Dante described in the "Inferno" and Hieronymus Bosch illustrated on canvas centuries ago became cultural fossils in most mainstream Christian denominations -- a story line that no longer resonates with churchgoers.

No longer resonates??? Au contraire. One of the most resonating sermons that I had ever heard was from an earlier pastor of my church. The subject of his homily was what it was like to go to Hell. He spoke for quite a long time, as he gave biblical and theological explanations of what it meant to find oneself in a state of damnation after death. Even though the sermon was long, I remember noticing that except for his voice, you could hear a pin drop in the church. He did not speak in loud, theatrical tones, but in a calm, reasoned manner.

I wish I could recall the details, but I think he was speaking directly to my heart and my soul, so specifics are not so much in my memory banks as are the emotions I experienced. I was absolutely terrified.

One impression I do remember is an image he painted of watching God's eternal love, like the sun in a solar system, gradually growing smaller and smaller, as if I were on a spaceship hurtling out into the cold of space. It became like a pin prick, and then it was gone, and I was left in the eternal torment of being separated from Him. I will never forget it.

[Wrigley]

Sounds like a great sermon. I'm sure he wrapped it up by coming back to the cross, the reason we as Christians will never have to fear that seperation.

Does your church tape sermons.

[COBOL2Java]

Does your church tape sermons.

Sadly no. He was a wonderful preacher, and I was sad to see him transferred to another church down in the southern end of our diocese. I know his new congregation is blessed!

[lockeliberty]

These PMA pastors are guilty of spiritual malpractice.

Surely Schueller should know better, shouldn't he? {sorry} {;^=D

[drstevej]

Pastors who preach in crystal cathedrals don't throw stones!

[Wrigley]

The mortgage bill is high enough. Let alone repairs.

[Gerish]

Yes, you don't hear alot about hell these days which is not good. I believe alot of these people of the clergy are playing right into the devil's hands. One of the greatest deceits of the devil is to make people believe he doesn't exist. Sometimes (and often) people need to know the "fear of God."

[lockeliberty]

Pastors who preach in crystal cathedrals don't throw stones!

I'm not so sure. I bet if we asked our friend Matchett PI he would say that Scheuller was all about "breaking the glass ceiling".

[DittoJed2]

Very sad commentary on the state of the church today. Very Laodicean, for sure if not totally DEAD.

The believer is in danger of being lost if they do not live out the grace that they know of," Fry said.
What is up with this statement????? Is he talking about eternally lost?