The Kasper-Ratzinger Debate & The State of the Church

New Oxford Review ^ | April 2002 | Philip Blosser

[narses]

Ping

[american colleen]

Wow! A hard hitting, excellent essay. I'm going to print it out and save it for an occasion that I am sure will be coming up. The nun who runs the "pastoral" groups in our parish will just love it... she jumped out at me when I read this: "Closer to our own time, similarly, Jesus is "discovered" to be a gentle healer, a hippie-sage, a charismatic prophet, a founder of self-esteem and self-realization movements, a proto-Marxist, or a champion of feminism and political correctness. " The nun is a "Jesus is my friend, and please don't litter" type.

OK, so Kasper is on the list of possible "Popes in the running" (how long is this list, anyway? Seems that all non-AmChurch Cardinals under age 70 are on that list). Yikes! He's a pretty scary guy. Kasper seems to believe that we shouldn't have to live up to the Body of Christ, the Body of Christ should have to live up to us - which equals moral relativism. Cardinal Kasper also is trying to diminish the office of the Pope, I think. I can see why JPII asked Cardinal Ratzinger to stay on despite Cardinal Ratzinger's age and health. Thank God for Cardinal Ratzinger!

For over two generations our faith formation has been shaped by a media culture that has portrayed our Church as a dinosaur that is either an impediment to social progress or simply irrelevant. We are blinded by ignorance. Where there is no vision, the people perish. The truth is that our Church's traditions and teachings have not been tried and found wanting; they have been found demanding and are no longer tried.

I can understand the pressure that the priests and Cardinals are under. I think that some, or even most of them are afraid if they really teach what the Church teaches, most of us will leave... but, it seems to me that most of us have left already.

[Catholicguy]

"But the most frequently cited apostle, Peter, is mentioned 179 times, and in each listing of a group of the apostles, regardless of the order in which the others are named, his name always heads the list"

Actually, there is one list that names him second as I recall. I am gonna go find it

[Catholicguy]

Galatians 2:9 "And when they had known the grace that was given to me,, James and Cephas and John..."

[narses]

I'm glad I found this. I want to find the other essay refered to as well. Perhaps tonight.

[american colleen]

Great, because I'd like to read it. I'm on my way to the beach today with the kids... it is an absolutely beautiful day today, no clouds, no humidity, a light breeze and it will be about 80 degrees. A gift from God! I'll check back later tonight while I am at work.

[Desdemona]

Great article. I am trying to get through it and really seriously think about what is written there on the page.

The notion that Protestantism is running rampant among the flock should be obvious. Too many places want democratic control. Believe it or not, honest, true story, my parish is renovating the church and among the things to be done, is to have new Stations made. Some members questioned the need for Stations. Then, we got into an argument about where the Baptismal Font should go, at the front (Protestant) or the back (Catholic) of the church. Eventually, a command decision was made to put it where it belongs, in the back. It was just unreal.

Anyway, until better efforts are made to educate the faithful on the faith itself (which won't happen so long as the Jesuits have so much sway) this is NOT going to go away. My "job" in my parish happens to be in Liturgy (cantor), so I've done a fair amount of research on that topic (and fight regularly the regurgitation of Cardinal Mahoney's sentiments on church music and the his take on the concept of "Performance" at Mass (Okay, it's not a performance, but has all the elements of one and must be treated as such or disrespect for the Church, Mass, Scripture, and the Congregation is obvious, IMO)). My education in theology, on the other hand, could stand to be strengthened.

Darn it. I was on a roll. My apologies.

Des

[ThomasMore]

those, on the one hand, who are concerned to safeguard the unity of traditional faith and morals, and those, on the other hand, who are concerned with keeping abreast with the changing times.

What profits a man to gain the whole world and loose his soul. This is a no-brainer. That's why I see those who would forfeit traditional faith and morals for modernism as men with no brains.

[nickcarraway]

The Cardinal Ratzinger Fan Club

[saradippity]

Thankyou for posting this article.Every Catholic that is somewhat bewildered over the current situation in the Church should read it.

It is a source of great concern to me to see this conflict,which so clearly pits two very different "visions" of Church,battled out within the very heart of the Church.

Can anyone shed some light on why a priest or bishop,who clearly brings a worldly agenda forward,was nominated and appointed to the College of CArdinals?

[narses]

One theory I've heard was that it was to PREVENT a German schism. Abortion certificates have been a huge issue there.

[sinkspur]

Then, we got into an argument about where the Baptismal Font should go, at the front (Protestant) or the back (Catholic) of the church.

Exactly what is "Catholic" about placing the Baptismal Font at the back of the Church? Liturgically, it seems proper to place it in the sanctuary, where the new Christian can be fully welcomed into the Church.

[narses]

Des,

Your post is a microcosm of the challenges facing Holy Mother the Church today. We are called to be Soldiers of Christ. It sounds like your congregation won a significant battle. Congratulations.

[Mike Fieschko]

Liturgically, it seems proper to place it in the sanctuary, where the new Christian can be fully welcomed into the Church.

Can't someone advance reasons for the 'back', near the entrance, since the person's 'entering' the Church, 'middle', since the 'community' 'surrounds' the person and they've not yet received First Communion, or near the sanctuary, for your reason.

This sort of dispute and 'reasons' makes me lean towards keeping the font where it's already been and using the money for other stuff, and not signing off on someone's possible agenda for 'change'.

My opinion, FWIW.

[ELS]

Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on Some Aspects of the Church as Communion

Cardinal Dulles Weighs in on Ratzinger-Kasper Debate

The articles in America are not available online

[Desdemona]

It has to do with the symbolism of coming into the church. It's also somewhat of a modernization as in the "Old Country," Italy primarily, the Baptistries were either across the street or otherwise outside the church.

[Dajjal]

The big question is: WHY in blazes did John Paul II make dissident Archbishop Kasper a cardinal in 2001?

(I suppose one of Stephen Hand's groupies will tell me that it's because the Pope was implementing some "Master Plan" to save the Church.)

Canon Lawyer Calls Kasper's and Lehmann's
Cardinal Nomination a "Genuine Scandal"

Father George May, Professor of Canon Law at Mainz University from 1960 to 1994, denounced the scandal of Archbishops Walter Kasper and Karl Lehmann receiving red hats.

In a February 2001 interview in Kirchliche Umschau, Father May said: "The nomination of Kasper and Lehmann [to the College of Cardinals] is a genuine scandal, that is to say, an occasion of sin . . . "

Both Kasper and Lehmann were made Cardinals by Pope John Paul II on February 21, 2001.

As for Karl Lehmann, even the liberal Italian press calls him "soft rebel," contrasting him with "hard rebels" such as Hans Kung. For years Lehmann resisted the Vatican's efforts to stop the German bishops from operating "counseling centers" which issued certificates German women need to obtain abortions under German law. He has also publicly questioned the Church's teaching that divorced and remarried Catholics may not receive Holy Communion. He co-authored [with fellow progressivist Walter Kaspar] a theology text which, among other things, denies the existence of a personal devil and personal demons.

Lehmann is unrepentant since his elevation to the status of Cardinal. Catholic World News reported that the day after he got his red hat, Lehmann "told reporters that he did not regret his opposition to the Holy See on the question of abortion counseling in Germany."

The other new Cardinal, Walter Kasper, is well-known for his heterodox views on the person of Jesus Christ. In his 1973 book Jesus Yes, Church No?, Father Kasper scorned the infallible Sacred Scriptures, stating that Christ "probably described himself neither as Messiah nor as Servant of God, nor as Son of God nor as Son of Man."

After Kasper's elevation to the Cardinalate, he was appointed Prefect of the Vatican's Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity. At the same time, he brazenly defied 2000 years of Church teaching alleging that non-Catholics need not convert to Catholicism for salvation. In a public statement printed in Adisti in February, Kasper said: ". . . today we no longer understand ecumenism in the sense of a return, by which the others would 'be converted' and return to being 'Catholics.' This was expressly abandoned at Vatican II."

With Cardinals like these, who need enemies?

[american colleen]

Can anyone shed some light on why a priest or bishop,who clearly brings a worldly agenda forward,was nominated and appointed to the College of CArdinals?

I was thinking maybe because they can keep an eye on him? Seems like Ratzinger thoroughly rolled over him in this debate (I might be biased, of course). At least what Kasper writes and says is within earshot of those who can act quickly to rebut "the world agenda."

[saradippity]

I think your thought is brilliant.Maybe the Vatican is sick and tired of the smarmy,clever,deceitful hierarchy who pretend to be Catholic but are far from it.What a great way to smoke them out.Thanks American Colleen,there's more than one way to skin a skunk.