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The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)
Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi

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To: Quester
1 John 5:13 indicates that we can know.

I agree.

65,421 posted on 08/18/2003 10:21:26 AM PDT by malakhi (Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.)
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To: SoothingDave
I did not mean to imply that just knowing God is what it takes. We do/can have a very real relationship with Him, which generates feelings, but the way we have this relationship is to know Him, the only way we know him now, in these times is thru scripture. When we get those feelings and feel God is speaking to us, the only way we can know for sure if it is God is if it lines up with scritpure. If our feelings are telling us something that contridicts scripture, no matter how right or good it feels it is not of God.

Becky
65,422 posted on 08/18/2003 10:23:24 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain (Prov. 9:7-8)
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To: malakhi
Certainly God didn't give the Israelites a one-shot forgiveness for all sins past and future. Every year they need to examine themselves and desire forgiveness for what they have done.

But isn't that precisely what ya'll say the purpose of the crucifixion was? To provide a perfect atonement, once for all time?

Yes and no. Yes, it was a one time perfect atonement. No, Catholics don't (though some do) consider then an analog one time repentence and forgiveness.

I am saying that we have confession just like the Jews had atonement once a year. It is the same basic way of interacting with man that God has chosen.

I even think that the two are basically the same thing, except for the fact that Original Sin still existed. My personal sins are removed in Confession which returns me to a state of sanctifying grace. An OT Jew could get personal sin removed, but would retain Original Sin.

In either event, any removal of sin was possible because of the Crucifixion. We access the forgiveness won on the Cross, at various times during our lives, as we feel the need for repentence and forgiveness.

SD

65,423 posted on 08/18/2003 10:23:31 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: drstevej
Guess eternal life ain't eternal. Guess whom he justified, some he glorified.

3 weeks ago we were in the book of Colossians in my Sunday School class. One of the things I loved about that book was Paul's defense against the mysticism/gnosticism of his day.

Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
Col 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
Col 1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints of light;
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

I think that's a great passage because it tells us:

1. We have already been made ready to receive the inheritance,
2. We have already been delivered from the powers of darkness,
3. We have already been translated into the kingdom of Jesus, and finally
4. We already have redemption through His blood.

None of those things are future or dependent upon us. What a relief!

65,424 posted on 08/18/2003 10:24:37 AM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM)
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To: malakhi
But His actual Presence is not dependent upon our feeling that He is there. The "spiritual dryness" or "dark night of the soul" of the mystics is not the actual withdrawal of God's Presence, but rather the withdrawal of the sense or perception of God's Presence.

Yep.

SD

65,425 posted on 08/18/2003 10:25:36 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
I thought we were talking about basing beliefs on feelings. Sorry. I'm not sure of your point.

Becky

***

I was talking about discernment which is in concert with faith.

1 Jn. 4
1 BELOVED, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Exercising faith

Eph. 4:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

James 2:
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

65,426 posted on 08/18/2003 10:26:12 AM PDT by restornu (Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them.)
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
I did not mean to imply that just knowing God is what it takes. We do/can have a very real relationship with Him, which generates feelings, but the way we have this relationship is to know Him, the only way we know him now, in these times is thru scripture. When we get those feelings and feel God is speaking to us, the only way we can know for sure if it is God is if it lines up with scritpure. If our feelings are telling us something that contridicts scripture, no matter how right or good it feels it is not of God.

Understood, though I of course do not agree that the Bible is the only way we can get to know Him now.

SD

65,427 posted on 08/18/2003 10:26:56 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Quester
As an addendum:

righteous from the Hebrew
6662 tsaddiyq tsad-deek' from 6663; just:--just, lawful, righteous (man).
1) just, lawful, righteous
a) just, righteous (in government)
b) just, right (in one's cause)
c) just, righteous (in conduct and character)
d) righteous (as justified and vindicated by God)
e) right, correct, lawful

65,428 posted on 08/18/2003 10:27:24 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny) (Psalm 146:3 -- Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.)
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To: Quester; malakhi
1 John 5:13 indicates that we can know.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Why not highlight the first part? "These things have I written." I think we need to look at the first part and what he had written and what it means, before we go into assuming that "that ye may know" applies to you, eh?

SD

65,429 posted on 08/18/2003 10:28:50 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: ET(end tyranny)
Lexicon Greek 1343 [ from the root of 1342] ...

... Genesis 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.


Looks like God is going to bless the world as a result of Abraham's obedience.

Meanwhile, ...
Genesis 15:2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?

3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
God accounts righteousness to Abraham because of his belief.

Note: Genesis 15 comes before Genesis 26.

65,430 posted on 08/18/2003 10:29:48 AM PDT by Quester
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To: Quester; A_Thinker
Who/where is A Thinker?
65,431 posted on 08/18/2003 10:30:00 AM PDT by restornu (Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them.)
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To: SoothingDave
How else is there and be 100% sure it is of God?

Becky
65,432 posted on 08/18/2003 10:31:32 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain (Prov. 9:7-8)
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To: SoothingDave
I suppose this is in lieu of an argument. I believe I made the comment to the808bass. If he has a problem with it, or any serious Protestant, I will consider it.

And in turn I would expect you to ignore any comment I made concerning Catholics which aren't directed to you. Good enough.
65,433 posted on 08/18/2003 10:31:40 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE ((I am a cult of one! UNITARJEWMIAN))
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To: OLD REGGIE
If I had a comment I would make it. I wouldn't just hurl invectives at you.

Since you have nothign to say about it, why don't you just shut up?

SD

65,434 posted on 08/18/2003 10:34:01 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
I agree that God will save those whom He destined for such.

Welcome to the Dark Side.....

65,435 posted on 08/18/2003 10:34:07 AM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM)
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To: SoothingDave
I think we need to look at the first part and what he had written and what it means, before we go into assuming that "that ye may know" applies to you, eh?

I agree ... and suggest that all, who haven't, ... proceed to read John's writings.

He shall not steer you wrong.

65,436 posted on 08/18/2003 10:35:20 AM PDT by Quester
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
How else is there and be 100% sure it is of God?

Cindy demonstrated that earlier. She experienced God in His Awesome works. Some of us might experience Him in quiet prayer or in a dream or in some other non-verbal way. There are ways of experiencing God that are non-verbal is my point. And direct, not using Scripture as a go-between.

SD

65,437 posted on 08/18/2003 10:37:00 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: ksen
Welcome to the Dark Side.....

Heh heh heh. It's double predestination I don't abide by.

SD

65,438 posted on 08/18/2003 10:37:49 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
I don't think your example has anything to do with what we are talking about in the post you referenced.

Can you explain why you think it is not connected?

65,439 posted on 08/18/2003 10:38:41 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny) (Psalm 146:3 -- Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.)
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To: SoothingDave
By all means highlight the first part:), I would say it applies to the whole of 1 John.

Becky
65,440 posted on 08/18/2003 10:39:00 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain (Prov. 9:7-8)
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