The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

What do you make of this?

And it shall come to pass that all who call upon the name of YHWH shall be delivered (Joel 2:32)

[ksen]

Get out of your box. :)

[newgeezer]

I love onion sandwiches!!! They're best made with a big slab of real Vidalia and Miracle Whip. Put crunchy peanut butter on the other slice of bread, and get ready for a true taste sensation.

Sadly, our culture and my wife (of 14 years this very day) aren't nearly as enthusiastic about them. It's been years since I've had one.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

I love onion sandwiches!!! They're best made with a big slab of real Vidalia and Miracle Whip. Put crunchy peanut butter on the other slice of bread, and get ready for a true taste sensation.

Holy cow dude. I'd rather eat a maggot on the fear factor from a gut truck. :-)

[OLD REGGIE]

In light of these passages, I think I see how the Catholic church could theoretically allow women priests someday. Something like this: "Since a woman, Mary, presented the sacrifice of Jesus to the Father, then a woman, acting in persona Mary, can offer the unbloody sacrifice of Jesus in the eucharist".

It'll happen in the Church of Mary.

[conservonator]

Is it just me or have the Vidalia onions been getting less and less sweet over the last few years?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

***What do you make of this?***

Lets look at the whole passage. Its cut and paste time. :)

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come.

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call [Joel 2:28–32].

There are many wonderful things that we could say about this passage of Scripture. Dr. Charles L. Feinberg, a Jewish Christian, and an outstanding Hebrew scholar, has written a fine series of books on the Minor Prophets which have been very helpful to me. In Joel, Amos, and Obadiah, pp. 26–27, he calls attention to something that I had not known before: “Verses 28 through 32 form chapter 3 in the Hebrew text; and chapter 3 in the English translations is chapter 4 in the original. No one will be inclined to doubt that the disclosure of truth in 2:28–32 is of sufficient importance to warrant its appearing in a separate chapter.” I certainly agree that these five verses are important enough to make them a separate chapter.

In understanding this prophecy, it is of utmost importance to note the time of fulfillment indicated in this passage: “And it shall come to pass (afterward).” Joel has been telling us about the coming Day of the Lord. As the first of the writing prophets, he introduced it, and he tells what is going to take place during that period. He has emphasized the fact that it will begin with the darkness of the Great Tribulation Period (our Lord Jesus gave it that name). We noted the importance of the time sequence in Hosea. In chapter 3, verse 5 of that prophecy it is written: “Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God, and David their king; and shall fear the Lord and his goodness in the latter days.” We identified the “latter days” as that time of the Great Tribulation Period which ushers in the kingdom by the coming of Christ to the earth, which is the beginning of the Millennium. This leads us to conclude that Joel is now speaking of a very definite period of time, that this prophecy is to be fulfilled during the Day of the Lord, after the night of the Great Tribulation Period. Then God will pour out His Spirit upon all flesh.

Although Joel is the first of the writing prophets, he is not the only one to mention the pouring out of the Spirit. In Isaiah we read: “Until the spirit be poured upon us from on high, and the wilderness be a fruitful field, and the fruitful field be counted for a forest” (Isa. 32:15). He is speaking of the kingdom which is coming on the earth, and the pouring out of the Spirit has reference to the Millennium. Of course none of the prophets spoke of the church age; all of them spoke of the last days in reference to the nation Israel.

Ezekiel 36:27 says this: “And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.” Then he continues, “And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God” (Ezek. 36:28). Now he is talking to a particular people and a particular land—Israel. It is also a particular period of time when God will pour out His Spirit. Also Ezekiel says: “And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord”(Ezek. 37:14). That’s not all: “Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord God” (Ezek. 39:29).
Zechariah is one of the last of the writing prophets. He says, “And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him; as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn” (Zech. 12:10).
Joel also makes it clear in the passage we are discussing—“And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance”—that he refers to a certain spot on the map.

The question arises: What did Peter mean when he referred to this passage of Scripture on the Day of Pentecost? Did he mean that the prophecy of Joel was fulfilled? No, he didn’t say that. He never claimed that this prophecy was fulfilled.

On the Day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit came upon the disciples they began to speak to Jews who had come to Jerusalem from all over the Roman Empire. Every man heard the message in his own tongue. These were not unknown tongues in which the disciples were speaking the message. Each tongue was the native tongue of one or more of the men who were gathered there from all over the Roman Empire and even beyond the empire.

Well, many believed, but others began to mock and say that the disciples were drunk—filled with new wine. So Simon Peter is the one who gets up to answer them. He acted as the spokesman for the group, and he gave an answer to the accusation that they were drunk. “… Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day” (Acts 2:14–15). Peter says you wouldn’t find people drunk in the morning. (It’s a little different in modern America—some people start drinking pretty early in the day.)
Peter continues, “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel” (Acts 2:16). You will notice that Peter does not say that this is in fulfillment of what the prophet Joel said. All the Gospel writers and the apostle Paul are very clear when they say that something is the fulfillment of a prophecy. I couldn’t begin to mention all of the passages. For examples, turn to Matthew 2:17–18: “Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children,and would not be comforted, because they are not” (italics mine). That was a fulfillment of prophecy that had to do with incidents associated with the birth of Christ. Drop down to verse 23: “And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene” (italics mine). Or turn to Acts 13 to the sermon of Paul at Antioch in Pisidia. He speaks of the resurrection of Jesus Christ and says, “And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee” (Acts 13:32–33, italics mine). The Bible is very definite about fulfillment of prophecy.

What does Peter say in Acts 2:16? “… this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel” (italics mine). He does not say it was a fulfillment of what Joel had predicted. Rather, he said, “This is that”—this is like that or similar to that. If you will go back in your mind to the Day of Pentecost, you will realize that Peter was not talking to Gentiles; he was speaking to Jews who were schooled in the Old Testament. They knew the Old Testament. They were Jews from all over the empire who had come to Jerusalem for the feast; they had traveled long distances because they were keeping what was required of them according to the Mosaic Law. Peter says to them in effect, “Don’t mock, don’t ridicule this thing which you see happening. This is like that which is going to take place in the Day of the Lord as it is told to us by the prophet Joel.”

He quotes Joel’s prophecy. “And it shall come to pass in the last days. saith God. I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh …” (Acts 2:17, italics mine). This is to occur in the last days. Then the Spirit of God will be poured out upon all flesh. Was that fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost? Hardly. It was experienced by those enumerated in the previous chapter. And three thousand were saved. Even if it had been three hundred thousand who were saved, it still would not have been a pouring out of the Spirit upon all flesh. It would still not have been a fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy.

In effect, Peter is saying to them, “Don’t mock at what you see happening. You ought to recognize from your own Word of God that Joel says the day is coming when God will pour out His Spirit on all flesh. If it is poured out on a few people today, you ought not to be surprised at that.”
Then Peter went on to quote the rest of Joel’s prophecy regarding what would take place: “I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come” (vv. 30–31). Was that fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost? Of course not. There were no earthquakes, no changes in the sun and moon. These will occur on “that great and notable day of the Lord.” Joel calls it “the great and the terrible day of the Lord.” The Day of Pentecost was a great day, but it was not a terrible day. It was a wonderful day!

My friend, if we understand the Book of Joel, we will never come to the conclusion that Peter was saying that the prophecy of Joel was being fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost. Simon Peter was merely using Joel’s prophecy as an introduction to answer those who were mocking.
Now the question arises: What was the subject of Simon Peter’s message? On the Day of Pentecost the subject of Simon Peter’s sermon was the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. Now when he comes to his text, he uses Psalm 16:8–10, which prophesied the resurrection of Christ. Notice how he applies it to Christ: “This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear” (Acts 2:32–33).

The conclusion both in Joel and in Peter’s address is, “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lordshall be delivered [Peter says, Shall be saved].” This is one of the many passages that causes me to make the statement that I think the greatest time of salvation is yet in the future. I believe God will save more of the human race than will be lost. I agree with Spurgeon who said that he believed God would win more to Himself than would be lost. When Christ comes to the earth to establish His kingdom, there is going to be the greatest time of individuals turning to God that the world has ever seen. Also during the Tribulation Period there will be a great turning to the Lord—much greater than there has been during the church age. The resurrection of Jesus Christ whom God has made both Lord and Christ is the whole point of Peter’s sermon. He is not emphasizing the phenomenon they had witnessed. The important issue is coming to know Jesus Christ. Oh, my friend, don’t be so occupied with having an experience that you miss coming to know Christ. What place does He occupy in your thinking, in your life, in your ministry?

This section of Joel’s prophecy is all-important, but it is yet to be fulfilled.

BigMack

[conservonator]

Like with steak and cheese.

Lunch, so near and yet so far...

[trad_anglican]

Malakhi:

Did they find that monkey that ran away from the bar in Green Bay?

[Quester]

What do you make of this?

And it shall come to pass that all who call upon the name of YHWH shall be delivered. (Joel 2:32)

Exactly what it says ... that all who call upon the One True God shall be saved.

God does not ignore those who call upon Him.

If you call upon Him ... He shall deliver you.

Take note that He may have opted to accomplish this through JESUS.

[OLD REGGIE]

The man has a Bible, a notebook, a keyboard and a mouse... and the first one he discards is the Bible???

No, No. I just don't use it simultaneously with the computer. Sorta like when I was a RC except then I was told not to use the Bible during waking hours because it "confused" me when I did so.

[malakhi]

of 14 years this very day

Happy anniversary!

[Quester]

What do you make of this?

And it shall come to pass that all who call upon the name of YHWH shall be delivered. (Joel 2:32)

Exactly what it says ... that all who call upon the One True God shall be saved.

God does not ignore those who call upon Him.

If you call upon Him ... He shall deliver you.

Take note that He may have opted to accomplish this through JESUS.

[newgeezer]

Is it just me or have the Vidalia onions been getting less and less sweet over the last few years?

I've certainly noticed that, too. In fact, I've had some alleged Vidalias which might as well have been common whites. Maybe it's the growing conditions of late. Maybe it's a problem of quantity vs. quality. Maybe they don't send the good ones to Iowa anymore. Or, maybe it's just a scam.

I can remember when a Vidalia could be enjoyed like an apple. But, not in recent memory.

[malakhi]

he calls attention to something that I had not known before: “Verses 28 through 32 form chapter 3 in the Hebrew text; and chapter 3 in the English translations is chapter 4 in the original

Yep, this is correct.

Of course none of the prophets spoke of the church age; all of them spoke of the last days in reference to the nation Israel.

I agree.

Ezekiel 36:27 says this: “And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”

Which would seem to refute the idea of the Law being abrogated.

The conclusion both in Joel and in Peter’s address is, “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lordshall be delivered [Peter says, Shall be saved].” This is one of the many passages that causes me to make the statement that I think the greatest time of salvation is yet in the future.

Joel says"the name of YHWH", though, not "the name of Jesus". How does this fit in?

This section of Joel’s prophecy is all-important, but it is yet to be fulfilled.

It has yet to be fulfilled, but as the citing of it by Peter in Acts suggests, it can be prefigured by events that occur prior to its fulfillment. If the pouring out of the spirit on Pentecost is "like or similar to" what Joel prophecies, then I would suggest that, even before the fulfillment of the prophecy, those who call upon the name of YHWH will be delivered.

The alternative, after all, is that those who call upon the name of YHWH are not delivered.

I love YHWH, because he has heard
my voice and my supplications.
Because he inclined his ear to me,
therefore I will call on him as long as I live.
The snares of death encompassed me;
the pangs of Sheol laid hold on me;
I suffered distress and anguish.
Then I called on the name of YHWH:
"O YHWH, I beseech thee, save my life!"
Gracious is YHWH, and righteous;
our God is merciful.
YHWH preserves the simple;
when I was brought low, he saved me.
Return, O my soul, to your rest;
for YHWH has dealt bountifully with you.
For thou hast delivered my soul from death,
my eyes from tears,
my feet from stumbling;
I walk before YHWH
in the land of the living.
I kept my faith, even when I said,
"I am greatly afflicted";
I said in my consternation,
"Men are all a vain hope."
What shall I render to YHWH
for all his bounty to me?
I will lift up the cup of salvation
and call on the name of YHWH (Psalm 116:1-13)

[malakhi]

Did they find that monkey that ran away from the bar in Green Bay?

Nope, he's still on the lam. He is described as small, dark and hairy. Not armed, but potentially dangerous. They took an Italian man into custody, but had to let him go because he had an solid alibi. ;o)

[newgeezer]

Happy anniversary!

Thank you.

By the way, for our recent "Christ in the Passover" program presented by Jews For Jesus, my wife made a Parmesan Bake with matzos. It was incredibly delicious. However, count me among those who have no love for matzos. I tried one out of the box; even peanut butter didn't help much. And I'm one of the least finicky eaters you'll ever know.

I'll have to assume the salted ones are better, compared to those Passover matzos.

[malakhi]

I'll have to assume the salted ones are better, compared to those Passover matzos.

You assume correctly!

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Joel says"the name of YHWH", though, not "the name of Jesus". How does this fit in?

The truth is that Jesus' entire life, his teachings, miracles, even his death and resurrection, were all explanations and clarifications of God's Holy Name YHWH.

BigMack

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

While I'm here....

BigMack