How Does God Relate to Time?

“...someone born in a remote Chinese village who never heard the word of God...”

I am sorry this is long, but even simple answers from scripture are important, so I tend to explain my thinking a lot. I’ve been a Christian for over 50 years, and I don’t pretend to know all the answers, but here’s what I believe:

THIS IS A REPLY TO ANYONE WHO ASKS THIS QUESTION, whether sincerely (as concern), or in a hostile way (for an excuse). From your post, it seems that you are sincerely concerned, as am I.

I would NEVER belittle or cast aside as unimportant, this particular question. It is almost painful to think about it. We have to use scripture, though, and not our own sense of reason, justice, or mercy.

By saying that there has to be some other way for someone like that, we may actually be denouncing the gospel, or as Paul put it being “ashamed of the gospel”. Paul says that people have responded to the obvious evidence of God by imagining other ways to be righteous:

Romans 1:16-23
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Now take a look at these verses, and think for a minute:

Luke 6:41, 42
41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother’s eye.

Jesus said that we have enough trouble worrying about our OWN sin, and that we can only change ourselves. I know that these verses don’t strictly apply to this specific case, but again, the principle to learn is that we only have control of ourselves. In other words, I can only control my choices and opportunities - I have heard the gospel - What have I done with what I have heard?

And, to go along with that, not only can we not control others, but we cannot control God. We cannot tell him what to do, or what is “fair”:

Romans 9:21
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Summary:

1. God has revealed himself to our spirits (Rom 1:19) and through creation (Rom 1:20). If that person responds in favor of God, perhaps God will send him a witness.
(Could that witness to that poor man be me? Only if I give my life to Christ.)

2. We have so much sin, we cannot address others’ sin, unless we get rid of ours.
(How can I help him with his sin? Only if Jesus has removed mine.)

3. God is God, and He will do what is right - and “right” is not for us to say.
(1 John 1:5 - This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all)

We should all do what God has for US to do, and He will take care of things not in our control.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply and thank you for not assuming my question was borne of hostility.

I believe in God for a number of reasons. Knowing that there is something rather than nothing and reasoning therefrom leads me to the indubitable conclusion that there must be an intelligent and powerful Creator. Every other argument or reason is "just gravy" as my father would say.

I would also like to believe that this Creator is all loving, but can't see an all loving Creator punishing finite sins with infinite punishment. Even if you lay all of the dead and tortured bodies of WWII at Hitler's feet, there is a finitude to his crimes.

Now it is said that because God is infinite any crime against him requires infinite punishment. This would suggest that if a person goes to his grave having told a white lie on his death bed that he doesn't ask forgiveness for or atone for before he passes then he should spend eternity in Hell. This doesn't jibe with me.

This will sound odd, but the previous argument also seems a bit un-American to me. America was founded in opposition to monarchies. When monarchies were all the rage it was generally believed that a crime against the King was considered of greater magnitude than a crime against a citizen. So, for example, stealing a loaf of bread from the King's table was worse than stealing a loaf of bread from a poor family on the brink of starvation. After all, the King was ordained by God to lead the people and stealing from the King was akin to stealing from God moreso than stealing from a mere peasant. However, America is not about monarchy and the Divine Right of Kings. So we would consider the stealing of a loaf of bread from a poor starving family as a much greater crime than filching a loaf of bread from the Whitehouse. Since we know that God is unaffected by our sins, however horrific, it seems that sins against God are actually of less weight than those against our fellow humans, especially those who are already suffering in this world of tears.

There is also another conundrum. Christians are diverging into two polarized groups (like the rest of our society): progressive and traditionalist. The progressives tend to minimize the horrors of Hell or even imagine it doesn't exist while also believing that abortion, gay marriage, gender reassignment surgery, etc. are all fine and dandy. Meanwhile the traditionalists who continue to believe that abortion is murder, there's no such thing as "gay marriage", etc. also continue to believe in an eternally lasting Hell. The progressives believe that everyone (save Hitler or Trump) will eventually find their way to Heaven, while the traditionalists tend to believe that very few of the hundreds of billions of humans that will ever live will end up in Heaven. They may hem and haw about what happens to aborigines who've never heard the Good News, or those who heard the Good News from pastors who raped them, but they will have a very long list of things you have to believe if you want to be certain that you end up in Heaven. Catholics must believe everything taught in all of the Councils. Protestants must believe in the complete inerrancy of the Bible; a book which has numerous things one must believe. The choices are not very good: hedonistic progressives who can get away with murder and still go to Heaven, or ascetic traditionalists who seem OK that their all loving God will be sending the mass of humanity to an eternity of torture.

I agree that I have enough of a hard time keeping my own meager life in line with God's Will, but I am still part of a Christian church however sectarian. There seems to be a contradiction between the statements "Each person is ultimately responsible for his own soul" and "God wants us to spread the Gospel as far and wide as quickly as possible". In one case we are emphasizing the personal relationship each person has with God, while in the other we are talking more about the church as a group that must support one another. If an individual goes to Hell because missionaries didn't get to him in time, that also sounds unfair and not something that an all loving God would want as a result.

The final "knock-down" argument that I hear in response to my concerns is that God is infinite and we have no hope in understanding His plan for us as individuals or the world as a whole. Who am I to question God? But I am not questioning God. I am questioning the conclusions that some have come to from their readings of the Scriptures that seem to suggest that God is not all loving.

With regard to Scriptures, there are those who believe that there is no room for any interpretation of the Bible and so they believe in Young Earth Creationism (YEC). These folks have to jump through all manner of hoops in order to explain why the Earth appears to be 4 billion years old, why there are fossils in rock that is millions of years old, why all the creatures on earth share very similar DNA, etc. There are also people who because the Bible tells us that Jesus died once for our sins, that the implication is there are no intelligent beings in other star systems. Somehow they believe it is OK that God put people on our planet in locations that Christians wouldn't reach in hundreds of years, but it would not be OK for God to put people on planets that are lightyears away from missionary activity. These are the people who tell us that if beings come to Earth claiming to be extraterrestrials, they will in fact be demons from Hell. How much embarrassment will that cause the church when these Biblical purists go on their anti-demonic rants if/when the UAPs land on the Whitehouse lawn or Times Square? I bring these odd points up because I believe there is room for responsible interpretation of the Scriptures and a reasonable interpretation could be that, yes there is a Hell, but it will not be as hellish as the traditionalists seem to want it to be... or sometimes seem gleefully to wish it to be.

Finally just a word about eternity. Eternity appears to be a rather static place. After all, God is the unmoved mover. The question is how will we as mere humans share in this eternity? Will we become static unmoved movers as well? Many conundrums come out of this (e.g. can we really have free will if God who created us and sent us on our way knows exactly what we are going to do?). Here is a conundrum that is more aesthetic than epistemological: So there is this poetic story told about Lucifer. We are told that he was God's favorite angel. We are led to believe that this situation went on for some time until Lucifer became prideful and suffered under the yoke of an all powerful God. We are told that he then went among the angels and was able to convince 1/3rd of them of the unjust position they had been put it. We are then told a massive battle ensued which ultimately led to Lucifer and his minions losing and being tossed down into Hell becoming Satan and his demons.

If you throw eternity into this mix, however, this amazing story takes place in an instant. No drama. No build up. Nothing resembling our human predicament. No real lessons to be learned by us as we struggle through time while our God, who we were somehow made in the image of, experiences no time, no change, no struggle. The essayists says that God experiences all time, all change, and all struggle but since he experiences this same infinitude throughout all of eternity, to Him it is a constant. This is just another conundrum that I admit finite beings may never be able to get our heads around.

Still there have been some great mathematicians who have done some amazing things with infinity and infinite sets, so there may be some hope in the future.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.