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Purgatory: Holy Fire - Continuing Ed
Catholic Education Resource Center ^ | 4-29-2021 | Scott Hahn - Biblical Scholar

Posted on 04/29/2021 5:26:30 PM PDT by MurphsLaw

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To: MurphsLaw
"Just so you know- I originally caucused this thread to avoid any continued rancor between Catholic/Protestant."

And just so you now know- you cannot use the caucus lapel to avoid Protestant refutation while you implicitly impugn them.

"The purpose was to share with those Catholics- who were interested enough to read it -"

Which means about 4 RCs responded.

"As your lengthy 4 page posts of decoding biblical passages and all - albeit meaningful to you - are not read by uninterested readers either. "

Posts, plural in response, not one 12,000 word page of prolix propaganda

" he used his personal witness to explain the Faith- BUT IT IN NO WAY DID HE REFER TO HIS PROTESTANT UPBRINGING TO DENIGRATE or ATTACK the many Protestant faiths out there."

Just being a convert from it itself impugns whatever is under that big tent.

"NOt Scott Hahn - he is very respectful of his past faith life and is NOT antagonistic"

He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. (Matthew 12:30) Hahn promotes distinctive Catholic teachings are not manifest in the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed (which is Scripture, in particular Acts through Revelation, which best shows how the NT church understood the gospels). And thus attacks evangelical faith.

"That you disagree with him - and that he is wrong and you are right- WAS NEITHER SURPRISING OR DESIRED TO BE SOLICITED...."

I did not even mention Hahn to cite his article but post refutation of the doctrine and arguments for it.

21 posted on 04/30/2021 11:55:36 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save + be baptized + follow Him!)
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To: daniel1212
And just so you now know- you cannot use the caucus lapel to avoid Protestant refutation while you implicitly impugn them.

Please cite where in this author's proof you see where protestants are being impugned? Or do you have a different definition of the word "impugn"??
You bear false witness on this man with this slanderous statement. He deserves better, show me where.

Which means about 4 RCs responded.

Perhaps in your zeal you missed the very FIRST line of my post - where commentary was not being solicited - please re-read::

(Caucused Post to clear up misunderstandings and misconception regarding recent discussion of The Doctrine of Purgatory....bkmk worthy.....No commentary necessary- no criticisms or animus required....

Just being a convert from it itself impugns whatever is under that big tent.

That an unnecessary hateful statement against this man. What right do you have to pass judgement on him. Aren't YOU a convert as well - does that not apply to you..? The mission of the Church- no-The Church IS THE MISSION of converting souls to share a life in Jesus Christ. That is core to Christianity - and you are not working on the side of the Lord if you feel otherwise.

I did not even mention Hahn to cite his article but post refutation of the doctrine and arguments for it.

Thou doth protest too much...
You should for sure be proud of your bible learning, no doubt... but be careful how you use it-- ANYONE of us can fall into the trap...as C.S. Lewis cautions:

“That raises a terrible question. How is it that people who are quite obviously eaten up with Pride can say they believe in God and appear to themselves very religious? I am afraid it means they are worshiping an imaginary God.” ― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

22 posted on 04/30/2021 2:09:30 PM PDT by MurphsLaw (“speak against the holy Ghost, it shall not be Forgiven him, in this world, NOR in the world to come)
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To: MurphsLaw
Please cite where in this author's proof you see where protestants are being impugned? Or do you have a different definition of the word "impugn"? You bear false witness on this man with this slanderous statement. He deserves better, show me where.

If you insist. impugn: to challenge as false...; cast doubt upon. (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/impugned)

On the one hand, as an Evangelical Protestant, I had firm convictions about the finished work of Jesus Christ;... But the application of that redemptive work of Christ by the Holy Spirit is another matter, one that I did not really come to grips with...Now that block, that obstacle was one of the biggest...

Implication: Protestantism, specifically evangelicalism, was deficient in what it taught, thus imputing fault, casting doubt upon the same, impugning that faith in contrast to Roman Catholicism. And which premise the rest of his deficient, faulty, ignorant, Scripture-wresting , sophistical apologetic follows (which I am tempted to show point by by point, but that would take even more hours with my stiff arthritic finger). Thus his apologetic is an an argument against being a Catholic.

"Just being a convert from it itself impugns whatever is under that big tent." "That an unnecessary hateful statement against this man."

"hateful statement? I was simply stating a fact.

"What right do you have to pass judgement on him. "

What right? Did you ever read "have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." (Ephesians 5:11)

" Aren't YOU a convert as well - does that not apply to you..?"

Indeed, and thus being a convert from Rome itself impugns that big tent.

"You should for sure be proud of your bible learning, no doubt... but be careful how you use it-- ANYONE of us can fall into the trap...as C.S. Lewis cautions: “That raises a terrible question. How is it that people who are quite obviously eaten up with Pride can say they believe in God and appear to themselves very religious? I am afraid it means they are worshiping an imaginary God.” ― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity "

So now your recourse is to impute sinful pride? Well, that is par for the course, and this exchange itself is an argument against being a Catholic. Been there myself. May God peradventure grant you "repentance to the acknowledging of the truth." (2 Timothy 2:25)

23 posted on 04/30/2021 4:25:23 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save + be baptized + follow Him!)
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To: tired&retired
This Love and Light energy from Heaven is what protects me while doing spirit releasement and exorcisms. This is why Jesus taught the importance of “Loving our enemies”, as evil is afraid the Love flowing through you will kill them.

Those are full on delusions there folks.

Don’t believe any of it because not one bit of it is Scriptural.

24 posted on 04/30/2021 5:01:01 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: tired&retired
My strength is in my own weakness thus allowing God to work through me. It is not me.

Whatever you’re channeling is NOT God.

25 posted on 04/30/2021 5:02:07 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: MurphsLaw; Religion Moderator
Had I realized the word "Protestant" disqualified the ability to caucus the thread- I would have deleted it-

I don’t believe that altering or “editing” an article to evade RF guidelines is an acceptable practice because the link to which people go still mentions it.

Also, it’s not just Protestants being mentioned. It’s any other religion as well and Jews are also mentioned in this article..

If you are that unfamiliar with the RF guidelines, then you can go to the RM’s homepage. They are all posted there.

26 posted on 04/30/2021 5:07:50 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom

Metmom...your anger and negativity are showing...Again. May Peace be with you.... for once...


27 posted on 04/30/2021 5:39:21 PM PDT by tired&retired (Blessings )
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To: tired&retired

No, I’m not angry.

You’re claiming to be mind reading.

You are passing off a faux Christianity.

Dressing up eastern mysticism with a Jesus window dressing because of some claimed experience is demonic and does not make it Christian.

Your claimed superpowers after your alleged NDE are unscriptural to the core and no amount of stating them as if they were facts will make them true or from God.

People need to be warned that the spiritual trash you are posting as a expression of Christianity is beyond nonsense. It’s downright demonic.


28 posted on 04/30/2021 8:11:54 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: MurphsLaw
Stop deliberatly misrepresenting my posts. It's getting tiresome and I've noticed you do it with others on this forum.

I did no such thing as you claimed in my post #9. I merely quoted scripture to try to convince you and your Bobby Barron that there are souls in Hell and the two of you can't just hope Holy Scripture is wrong and there are no souls in Hell.

To deliberately twist my post is despicable; but you would make Joe Biden proud of you.

P.S. You can send me all the private messages you want to; but I delete them without opening them.

29 posted on 04/30/2021 9:21:42 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: metmom

If you feel this strongly about me, I urge you to pray to God that He cleanse my soul. Pray non stop that the Fire of Heaven come upon me and burn any evil from my soul.

As Jesus stated, “Would Satan cast out satan?” A house divided against itself will fall.

You sound like the Pharisees whose legalism was a constant contradictory thorn to Jesus’s teachings. I’ve encountered many like you over the years. Each and every time the person attacking was unknowingly possessed by a dark attached spirit.

Above I asked you to pray for me. I will pray for you as well that my Father cleanse your soul of the turmoil. Your response to such prayers is predictably to try and increase your attacks. This battle is real. I’ve encountered it often. It is not my battle, but my Father’s battle. I am merely His lowly servant. It is not a battle with you, but that which blinds you without your knowledge.

May the Lord let His Light shine upon you. May you be Baptized with the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit of Christ Our Father’s Son who was born in the flesh to save us, enter your soul in communion. May you find and experience the Peace that surpasses all understanding.

As Saul encountered on the road to Damascus, may your soul be transformed by the Light of Our Father. May it get brighter and brighter, revealing the hidden darkness, so that it may be removed and the Light in your own soul shine with the presence of Our Father and radiate Love to all.

May the harshness that Jesus rebuked in Mary be removed from your soul and give your heart Peace.

In Our Father’s Name, I ask in prayers of Love that His Will be done.

Amen

🙏🙏🙏


30 posted on 04/30/2021 11:31:44 PM PDT by tired&retired (Blessings )
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To: metmom; Religion Moderator
Thank you for pointing me to the RMs home page... no I had not seen that before- so it was helpful. I cant say having read that even 6 months ago I still wouldnt have run afoul with the law...I thought by clearly stating my intention up front it would not be seen as antagonistic - rather a turn the channel kind of deal. My error. The caucus des was immediately removed and I apologized for not knowing the rules.(Thankfully in the end, this post was not flamed like the recent 300+ replied Purgatory post of a few days ago, and there was almost NO commentary which was my original intent. So it was a win-win- win!!)

On the flip side I am sometimes told I should caucus a post or I will get flamed- I reply that I dont mind and enjoy the convo...thats how we learn- admittedly I have learned a lot about my Faith from the discussion with other side of the aisle- so its all good - even in disagreement.

My experiences are that Catholics are not as well versed in their Faith and the supporting Doctrines that has continued on for 2000 years- so I hope to change that as much as I can - woe unto me if I don't....
31 posted on 05/01/2021 3:12:22 PM PDT by MurphsLaw (“speak against the holy Ghost, it shall not be Forgiven him, in this world, NOR in the world to come)
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To: MurphsLaw
My experiences are that Catholics are not as well versed in their Faith and the supporting Doctrines that has continued on for 2000 years

Maybe that's because of the crowd you hang out with. You appear to have become one of them.

32 posted on 05/01/2021 6:55:25 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: ebb tide
65% of Catholics dont understand or believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist
Thats a crisis... not a punchline....
33 posted on 05/01/2021 7:24:40 PM PDT by MurphsLaw (“speak against the holy Ghost, it shall not be Forgiven him, in this world, NOR in the world to come)
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To: MurphsLaw
65% of Catholics dont understand or believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist Thats a crisis... not a punchline....

Maybe that's because 98% of them, thanks to VCII, are receiving in the paw, on the hoof, from a laymen with no communion paten under their chin or hands.

Think about that, Murph.

In the Traditional Mass the priest purified his hands before and after Holy Communion. And his were the only hands that touched the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.

34 posted on 05/01/2021 7:37:09 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: MurphsLaw

>>You are set aside because you TRUST in his Word, to do his Will. He calls you friend now<<

Scripture tells us that our sins are no longer imputed to us. Put away as far as the East is to the West.

In the book of Romans, sin is referenced 46 or 47 out of 49 times as a noun, not a verb. Hamartia.

In other words, not what you do but who you are. You were born into a nature of sin. You did not choose it, nor did you do anything to cause it. You were born into a nature of sin through Adam. Jesus is the 2nd Adam. By one man sin entered into the world, by one man (Jesus) we have been reconciled to the Father.

Jesus came not only to forgive what we have done, but to transform our sinful nature into a righteous nature as it was before the fall in the garden.

God set forth a plan to bring His creation back into right standing with Him. He wants a family to fellowship with Him through eternity. It is through Jesus we are transformed.

Do we struggle with sin...yes, but those who’ve accepted God’s saving grace through the shed blood of the Lamb have been rescued from the curse of the law, sin and death.


35 posted on 05/01/2021 8:24:48 PM PDT by servantboy777
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To: servantboy777
Do we struggle with sin...yes, but those who’ve accepted God’s saving grace through the shed blood of the Lamb have been rescued from the curse of the law, sin and death.

So are you claiming "those who have accepted God's saving grace" are rescued from sin and all their future sins?

And once saved, always saved?

36 posted on 05/01/2021 8:38:17 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: ebb tide

Wouldnt it be great if we could roll back the Clock to 1963.


37 posted on 05/01/2021 9:27:03 PM PDT by MurphsLaw (“speak against the holy Ghost, it shall not be Forgiven him, in this world, NOR in the world to come)
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To: MurphsLaw

Why?

To start this VC II crap all over again?


38 posted on 05/01/2021 9:29:28 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: servantboy777

Who could disagree for sure.... but how should we look at Matt 25 Sheeps and goats then?


39 posted on 05/01/2021 9:32:30 PM PDT by MurphsLaw (“speak against the holy Ghost, it shall not be Forgiven him, in this world, NOR in the world to come)
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To: ebb tide
Stop deliberatly misrepresenting my posts

Please explain.
YOU brought up Lazarus and the Rich man trying to prove a point- that the rich man was in hell...and Bishop Barron was wrong in his comment that we should have a reasonable hope that hell could be empty.....And again...The Church has NOT declared anyone is on hell - BEFORE or after Vat2

its not my fault that if you feel the rich man is condemned to hell than so are we all who ignore the Lazarus'of our day....just because you didn't see that coming dont blame it on me "misrepresenting" - you brought it up.
40 posted on 05/01/2021 9:45:26 PM PDT by MurphsLaw (“speak against the holy Ghost, it shall not be Forgiven him, in this world, NOR in the world to come)
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